Ehlers why Didnt We Trade Him

Is it because he willingly takes shorter shifts or is it because the top line is the only line allowed to greatly over extend their shifts?

Hard to argue number of shifts when the top line averages over 4 minutes more a game.
I dont think its a coaching thing... ive been half watching this since bones commented on number of shifts and ehlers really is a short shift player - could be from his back issue days or could be from his need for speed...
 
Is it because he willingly takes shorter shifts or is it because the top line is the only line allowed to greatly over extend their shifts?

Hard to argue number of shifts when the top line averages over 4 minutes more a game.
The top line doesn't "greatly over-extend" their shifts. They're all around or under 0:50 at 5v5
 
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Just for fun, why don't you take a look at the 5v5 shift counts (not TOI) over the course of the year

You'll see he gets about the same number of shifts as Connor, but just takes shorter shifts

When it comes to deployment, that's the number coaches will look at
It may be the number the coaches look at, but the total ice time, line mates and deployment and opportunity over the last 7 years will be what Ehlers looks at. I am not saying he will leave for sure (I think it is likely) but those are all things that will play a part in his decision, not just money or the number of years. Many players would take less money for more opportunity and ice time and respect from the coaches.
 
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It may be the number the coaches look at, but the total ice time, line mates and deployment and opportunity over the last 7 years will be what Ehlers looks at. I am not saying he will leave for sure (I think it is likely) but those are all things that will play a part in his decision, not just money or the number of years. Many players would take less money for more opportunity and ice time and respect from the coaches.
Don't know if it's respect from coaches as Arniel is a separate person from Bones. If Ehlers is choosing to take shorter shifts than can he complain about total ice time?
 
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The top line doesn't "greatly over-extend" their shifts. They're all around or under 0:50 at 5v5
They take longer shifts in all situations than anyone on the team. Not only do they sniff for offensive one more chance quite often, a lot of shift length comes down the coaches decisions. If line 2 thru 4 are out and there is a whistle around the 30 second mark, the coach will change the line. If line 1 is out and there is a whistle any time under 45 seconds they won't change them. That often leads to the long shift if there is a whistle at say the 40 sec mark and they stay out, that shifts then leaks into a 1:20 shift
 
Don't know if it's respect from coaches as Arniel is a separate person from Bones. If Ehlers is choosing to take shorter shifts than can he complain about total ice time?
Coaches control shift length way more than people realize. Coaches aren't changing line 1 if there is a whistle 45 seconds into their shift, but Ehlers line gets a whistle at the 30 second mark and there is a quick change. Happens all the time.
 
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Coaches control shift length way more than people realize. Coaches aren't changing line 1 if there is a whistle 45 seconds into their shift, but Ehlers line gets a whistle at the 30 second mark and there is a quick change. Happens all the time.
No, but, ive seen Ehlers go to their end once and then once the team gets the puck not go for a second chance, when there is no whistle.
 
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Is it because he willingly takes shorter shifts or is it because the top line is the only line allowed to greatly over extend their shifts?

Hard to argue number of shifts when the top line averages over 4 minutes more a game.
Ehlers tends to take shorter shifts than Connor but not by by a whole lot when the change is on the fly. When the whistle comes and when a coach changes his line is a big way that coach controls ice time.

If the 4th line is out and a whistle comes at the 25 sec mark they are changing for sure whereas the other three lines wouldn't change. If line 2 or 3 get a whistle at 30-40 secs they are definitely changing but the 1st line isn't.

Factors in controlling ice time:

- Coach controlling number of shifts through rotation, matchups, double shifting etc
- Shift length when a coach changes on a whistle
- Players extending too long looking for just one more chance
- Special teams, primarily PP staying out but PK chances also add to ice time
- End of game 6 on 5 or 5 on 6 and OT shifts tend to be very long generally
 
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Ehlers tends to take shorter shifts than Connor but not by by a whole lot when the change is on the fly. When the whistle comes and when a coach changes his line is a big way that coach controls ice time.

If the 4th line is out and a whistle comes at the 25 sec mark they are changing for sure whereas the other three lines wouldn't change. If line 2 or 3 get a whistle at 30-40 secs they are definitely changing but the 1st line isn't.

Factors in controlling ice time:

- Coach controlling number of shifts through rotation, matchups, double shifting etc
- Shift length when a coach changes on a whistle
- Players extending too long looking for just one more chance
- Special teams, primarily PP staying out but PK chances also add to ice time
- End of game 6 on 5 or 5 on 6 and OT shifts tend to be very long generally

Yeah I was going to say something like this. Often the other lines are switched off early if there is a matchup issue or if the other team ices the puck the first line almost always goes on.
 
Depends how much offence you want coming from your second line and how much can be replaced by Perfetti’s improvement. Right now there’s a clear top 2 in 5v5 scoring with Scheifele and Connor around 45 points. The next level includes Vilardi, Ehlers and Perfetti at 33, 30 and 25 points respectively. Then you have Nino, Lowry, Appleton and Namestnikov all around 20 points.

If your goal is 75 5v5 points from the second line, I think it’s reasonable to count on 30-35 from Perfetti next year. Then you only need ~40 from the other two players, which you could probably get from players like Namestnikov and Iafallo.
That assumes that Ehlers hasn't been generating 5v5 points for players like Perfetti, Lowry and Appleton. But I think he's a key generator for the middle-6 at 5v5. My view is that his speed and skill opens up a lot of offense that would be easier for opponents to shut down with players like Namestnikov, Appleton, Lowry in the middle 6. Time will tell if Perfetti can elevate into a consistent driver of offense on his own. I think that's a risky assumption.

Besides, why not have Ehlers plus those other players if you can afford them under the cap? If the Jets don't re-sign Ehlers they'll likely have a bunch of unused cap space that they can't use in free agency to add top talent to replace him.

Maybe Lambert and/or Chibrikov will add some offensive talent, but there will be a substantial drop-off from Ehlers' level in the next year or two. Why would the Jets take a step back when they are right in the middle of their top contending window?
 
That assumes that Ehlers hasn't been generating 5v5 points for players like Perfetti, Lowry and Appleton. But I think he's a key generator for the middle-6 at 5v5. My view is that his speed and skill opens up a lot of offense that would be easier for opponents to shut down with players like Namestnikov, Appleton, Lowry in the middle 6. Time will tell if Perfetti can elevate into a consistent driver of offense on his own. I think that's a risky assumption.

Besides, why not have Ehlers plus those other players if you can afford them under the cap? If the Jets don't re-sign Ehlers they'll likely have a bunch of unused cap space that they can't use in free agency to add top talent to replace him.

Maybe Lambert and/or Chibrikov will add some offensive talent, but there will be a substantial drop-off from Ehlers' level in the next year or two. Why would the Jets take a step back when they are right in the middle of their top contending window?

I mean it's not just the Jets decision here but also Fly's. He may not want to stay and if that is the case not much we can do other then hope management has contingencies in place.

Ideally he stays but that isn't set in stone.
 
Coaches control shift length way more than people realize. Coaches aren't changing line 1 if there is a whistle 45 seconds into their shift, but Ehlers line gets a whistle at the 30 second mark and there is a quick change. Happens all the time.
They are 100% changing any line 45 seconds into a shift with a whistle
 
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That assumes that Ehlers hasn't been generating 5v5 points for players like Perfetti, Lowry and Appleton. But I think he's a key generator for the middle-6 at 5v5. My view is that his speed and skill opens up a lot of offense that would be easier for opponents to shut down with players like Namestnikov, Appleton, Lowry in the middle 6. Time will tell if Perfetti can elevate into a consistent driver of offense on his own. I think that's a risky assumption.

Besides, why not have Ehlers plus those other players if you can afford them under the cap? If the Jets don't re-sign Ehlers they'll likely have a bunch of unused cap space that they can't use in free agency to add top talent to replace him.

Maybe Lambert and/or Chibrikov will add some offensive talent, but there will be a substantial drop-off from Ehlers' level in the next year or two. Why would the Jets take a step back when they are right in the middle of their top contending window?
Ideally we keep Ehlers, but, people try to look at how we can still be competitive if Ehlers forces his way out.
 
Ehlers tends to take shorter shifts than Connor but not by by a whole lot when the change is on the fly. When the whistle comes and when a coach changes his line is a big way that coach controls ice time.

If the 4th line is out and a whistle comes at the 25 sec mark they are changing for sure whereas the other three lines wouldn't change. If line 2 or 3 get a whistle at 30-40 secs they are definitely changing but the 1st line isn't.

Factors in controlling ice time:

- Coach controlling number of shifts through rotation, matchups, double shifting etc
- Shift length when a coach changes on a whistle
- Players extending too long looking for just one more chance
- Special teams, primarily PP staying out but PK chances also add to ice time
- End of game 6 on 5 or 5 on 6 and OT shifts tend to be very long generally
Another point, Ehlers is our best transition player. That means he is likely to get stuck in his end which keeps the time he and his line have to play down.
 
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That assumes that Ehlers hasn't been generating 5v5 points for players like Perfetti, Lowry and Appleton. But I think he's a key generator for the middle-6 at 5v5. My view is that his speed and skill opens up a lot of offense that would be easier for opponents to shut down with players like Namestnikov, Appleton, Lowry in the middle 6. Time will tell if Perfetti can elevate into a consistent driver of offense on his own. I think that's a risky assumption.

Besides, why not have Ehlers plus those other players if you can afford them under the cap? If the Jets don't re-sign Ehlers they'll likely have a bunch of unused cap space that they can't use in free agency to add top talent to replace him.

Maybe Lambert and/or Chibrikov will add some offensive talent, but there will be a substantial drop-off from Ehlers' level in the next year or two. Why would the Jets take a step back when they are right in the middle of their top contending window?
If perfetti can show some semblance of consistency, ie: his play and assertiveness offensively from Feb onward for 3/4s of the year, I think the Jets would be in a decent place in there middle 6 without ehlers. But I do agree, if the Jets have space they should make it work. Their competitive window is as long as Helle is at a high level, and he's shown no signs of slowing down.

Really elite goaltending keeps the Jets as a solid "floor" team where if they were around average in goals for they'd still most likely be a PO team.
 
Ehlers tends to take shorter shifts than Connor but not by by a whole lot when the change is on the fly. When the whistle comes and when a coach changes his line is a big way that coach controls ice time.

If the 4th line is out and a whistle comes at the 25 sec mark they are changing for sure whereas the other three lines wouldn't change. If line 2 or 3 get a whistle at 30-40 secs they are definitely changing but the 1st line isn't.

Factors in controlling ice time:

- Coach controlling number of shifts through rotation, matchups, double shifting etc
- Shift length when a coach changes on a whistle
- Players extending too long looking for just one more chance
- Special teams, primarily PP staying out but PK chances also add to ice time
- End of game 6 on 5 or 5 on 6 and OT shifts tend to be very long generally
This is why I specifically looked at 5v5 shift length
 
Another point, Ehlers is our best transition player. That means he is likely to get stuck in his end which keeps the time he and his line have to play down.
His zone exits are amazing. The top line's longer shifts legth can be attributed (at least in part) to their tendency to get hemmed in (as you pointed out)
 
His zone exits are amazing. The top line's longer shifts legth can be attributed (at least in part) to their tendency to get hemmed in (as you pointed out)
I mean it's a combo of things I think more than 1 thing, the 1st line looks for second chances. They play a possession game, Ehlers is more likely to streak down the wing take a shot and then go off. The 1st line gets hemmed in their end. It all adds up.
 
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I mean it's a combo of things I think more than 1 thing, the 1st line looks for second chances. They play a possession game, Ehlers is more likely to streak down the wing take a shot and then go off. The 1st line gets hemmed in their end. It all adds up.
But what I DON'T think it is is Arniel saying to the team: "OK, everyone take short shifts except for Schief's line, you do what you want"
 
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For Ehlers:

Does any team need a top LW player next year and if so can they afford Ehlers if he commands 8M per year?
I think the Wings, Hawks and Ducks all want to take the next step and a vet like Nik probably looks super tantalizing to them.
 
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I think the Wings, Hawks and Ducks all want to take the next step and a vet like Nik probably looks super tantalizing to them.
Yeah it was a good question from @PhilJets . Time is pretty valuable to GM's. And Ehlers saves you the risk and 5 years of developing an impact top six forward (if you are drafting outside the top 10). Will cost lots of cap i guess.

I think it says something when basically half the league would have interest in the guy to bring in as their top line winger. And unfortunately, half of those actually have the cap space to do it.
 
I think the Wings, Hawks and Ducks all want to take the next step and a vet like Nik probably looks super tantalizing to them.

The Islanders are another team that likely makes a big play at him. They have defense and goal but lack skill upfront.
 
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The Islanders are another team that likely makes a big play at him. They have defense and goal but lack skill upfront.
You could even add in the Sabres who desperately need to figure shit out - the Blues who look like they just need a reload. There are a bunch of teams I think that could use a guy like Nik to boost their chances at playoffs.
 
Jets could offer 8x8.3M. Another team would need to offer 7x9.5M to match the total.

Of course it will age badly but by the end Scheifele and Hellebuyck will be gone and Morrissey will be late 30s. The Jets will likely be in a rebuild mode with tons of cap space.

Will they realistically have a better window than now in the next 8-10 years?

I think the right approach is to add to Ehlers, not try to replace him with rookies, especially when the Jets aren't pressed for cap space.
 
Jets could offer 8x8.3M. Another team would need to offer 7x9.5M to match the total.

Of course it will age badly but by the end Scheifele and Hellebuyck will be gone and Morrissey will be late 30s. The Jets will likely be in a rebuild mode with tons of cap space.

Will they realistically have a better window than now in the next 8-10 years?

I think the right approach is to add to Ehlers, not try to replace him with rookies, especially when the Jets aren't pressed for cap space.
was gonna say, the Jets have the 5th most cap-space in the league next year at 37M. the 4 key pieces that need a contract are Samberg, Ehlers, Vilardi and Pionk. I can see ~20M combined for the first 3. Then Pionk i have a bit of a tough read on a new deal. AFP Analytics for instance have him at 7M. With Samberg's emergence as a 2nd pair anchor i think they don't have to break the bank on Pionk, so go 27M for the 4.
I highly doubt any team is giving Ehlers 10M. He doesn't have the actual production to warrant that in my view. he's a couple tiers down from Rantanen and Marner in scoring. anything less than 9M the Jets can muster up a competitive offer for him if they want.

re-sign Iafallo and 1 of Apleton and Tanev, & replace the other with Chibrikov.
 
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