Ehlers why Didnt We Trade Him

[robertocarlos]

It is setting a bar based on a player and a cap from 2 years earlier.

Pay the player what he is worth today. Not based on what a more valuable player negotiated some time in the past.

You can't say that Scheifele (or Helle) is our most valuable player and therefore no player can be paid more than him. That was then. This is now.

I'm not saying pay Ehlers or anyone else more or less than Scheifele. I'm saying that Scheifele's contract is not what you are competing against to sign your players today. Pay market value - in today's market.

There is politically generated uncertainty at a much higher than normal level right now. I have no idea how that is going to affect these issues going forward. There may be new conservatism, especially on the part of the Canadian teams. Or not.

No kidding. Why are any players earning more than Gordie Howe.

 

[GNP]

My argument is that if the difference between letting Ehlers get away and him staying is having to pay him as much as our two most valuable players, then I don't think its a bad move. No one is batting an eye about going 9.5 for Connor. Ehlers is a different player but just as strong offensively. He just has a less valuable role on our team.

I think you’d be lucky to sign Connor at $ 9.5 mil, as right now, if he were a UFA, he could command offers in the $ 10 to 10.5 mil range very easily, by many clubs. He will be expensive to resign.

 

[surixon]

Sometimes when having to make decisions you need to be really black and white on what is most important. I don't think Chevy believes Ehlers is the most important ingredient for this team. Where he ranks him, I would guess is lower than where many posters have him.

In terms of forwards he's very clearly behind Mark and KC. He's likely behind Lowry as well albeit for different reasons. I can also see Perfetti supplanting him in a couple years if Fly is still here as Cole's player type and game better fits what the Jets value and our system.

I feel if the Jets were willing to pay him then they would have already.

As far as line 2 well they would need to build something around Cole and try to bring in pieces that may work better with him. Maybe they grab Boeser who is a RS triggerman with size.

 

[Buffdog]

No kidding. Why are any players earning more than Gordie Howe.

Ironically, there's an interesting story about how Jack Adams (Detroit's GM) used Gordie Howe to keep salaries low

It led in part to the formation of the NHLPA

https://www.chicagotribune.com/1991/09/22/book-cites-howe-for-low-salaries/

 

[NA Hockey]

Connor has proved he can score more than 65 points in a season multiple times. We are still waiting for Nik to do that.
If you are going to argue that he is better than Connor, I am out of this debate.

Not trying to be combative at all but Connors has been force fed prime minutes, prime line mates and golden opportunity since the beginning, never being held accountable to play a two way game or any D. If Connors played 15 mins a night on the 2nd pp for years at a time I question whether he would have scored more than 65 points one time let alone multiple times. Just saying...Everyone knows that opportunity determines a players success as much or more than anything else.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Not trying to be combative at all but Connors has been force fed prime minutes, prime line mates and golden opportunity since the beginning, never being held accountable to play a two way game or any D. If Connors played 15 mins a night on the 2nd pp for years at a time I question whether he would have scored more than 65 points one time let alone multiple times. Just saying...Everyone knows that opportunity determines a players success as much or more than anything else.

Yet Connor has been given the opportunities and made the most of them, therefore rightfully expects to be paid for it.
Ehlers hasn’t got opportunities, hasn’t proven and therefore won’t get paid like he had.
Is the gist of it. There’s also health issues, the fact that Connor plays a more predictable game which was going to lead to pressure from your number 1 centre to play with him. The fact he doesn’t curl up at the top and want to shoot at the blue line like a third d man. So, yes one got the opportunities, but, was more likely to get the opportunities because of flexibility and letting schief get to be the star. Also, because he was willing to play the exact style the coach wanted offensively.

Other players like Laine were also given great opportunities and never learnt to make the best of it.

Also the never playing d isn’t quite true as he is often the hardest back checker on that line since just before last year’s playoffs.

I also think kc would be a great fit with perfetti getting fed passes in the slot.

 

[10Ducky10]

Not trying to be combative at all but Connors has been force fed prime minutes, prime line mates and golden opportunity since the beginning, never being held accountable to play a two way game or any D. If Connors played 15 mins a night on the 2nd pp for years at a time I question whether he would have scored more than 65 points one time let alone multiple times. Just saying...Everyone knows that opportunity determines a players success as much or more than anything else.

He is a pure goal scorer like nobody else on the team. He doesn't make blind passes and lose position of the puck in the O zone. He has scored more goals in the playoffs then Nikki has points. 32 out of 32 general managers would take him on their team over Nik.
Nik is better defensively but it's not by much. People on here bragging about his defensive capabilities should open their eyes.

 

[10Ducky10]

*possession

 

[Buffdog]

Not trying to be combative at all but Connors has been force fed prime minutes, prime line mates and golden opportunity since the beginning, never being held accountable to play a two way game or any D. If Connors played 15 mins a night on the 2nd pp for years at a time I question whether he would have scored more than 65 points one time let alone multiple times. Just saying...Everyone knows that opportunity determines a players success as much or more than anything else.

If Ehlers wants better opportunities, he should make himself easier to play with

 

[PhilJets]

"Ehlers, why didn't we trade him?"


Because he will get sign booked it!!!


GO JETS GO

 

[Adam da bomb]

"Ehlers, why didn't we trade him?"


Because he will get sign booked it!!!


GO JETS GO

Hope so. Would be good to keep him around.

 

[NA Hockey]

Yet Connor has been given the opportunities and made the most of them, therefore rightfully expects to be paid for it.
Ehlers hasn’t got opportunities, hasn’t proven and therefore won’t get paid like he had.
Is the gist of it. There’s also health issues, the fact that Connor plays a more predictable game which was going to lead to pressure from your number 1 centre to play with him. The fact he doesn’t curl up at the top and want to shoot at the blue line like a third d man. So, yes one got the opportunities, but, was more likely to get the opportunities because of flexibility and letting schief get to be the star. Also, because he was willing to play the exact style the coach wanted offensively.

Other players like Laine were also given great opportunities and never learnt to make the best of it.

Also the never playing d isn’t quite true as he is often the hardest back checker on that line since just before last year’s playoffs.

I also think kc would be a great fit with perfetti getting fed passes in the slot.

I agree KFC deserves to paid. Ehlers will get paid as well but not as much as KFC and that is the way it should be.

The bolded above I agree 100% with.

My only point was that opportunity is as much a factor in production as anything else. 20 mins a night playing with the best player on the team and 1st pp will inevitably allow you to score more than if you played 15 mins and 2nd pp

 

[Jets 31]

Ehlers is a fun player to watch play and has alot of talent but just from a fan's point of view to me he sometimes takes too many risky chances and i got to believe all of our coaches over the years see the same thing. I would like to see him signed but there is a limit on how high Chevy can and will go.

 

[Whileee]

I don't think Ehlers is even top 5 in contributing to the success of the team. The entire 1st line, Samberg, Morrissey and Hellebuyck all mean more. I'd also put Lowry into consideration.

The Jets thrive on depth. I fear the Jets' offense would dry up on too many nights and they would struggle to score. I don't think we can count on Connor and Scheifele to continue to score at this high rate in future seasons, so the Jets can't afford to lose offensive pop in the lower lines.

 

[hockeyarena]

I hope im wrong but it feels like ehlers will go the way of every other former jets 2nd liner who got too big for their britches and thought it would be better elsewhere. Ladd, Kane, trouba, copp, bogosian, laine, etc.

 

[Mud Turtle]

Hope so. Would be good to keep him around.

We definitely need to keep Ehlers. He adds so much movement which is something we really need to be successful. When we stand still we become predictable.

On a different topic. When does the Appleton experiment end? 19 points in 59 games? Not good enough.

 

[Adam da bomb]

The Jets thrive on depth. I fear the Jets' offense would dry up on too many nights and they would struggle to score. I don't think we can count on Connor and Scheifele to continue to score at this high rate in future seasons, so the Jets can't afford to lose offensive pop in the lower lines.

These numbers are pretty in line with their usual numbers no? Pretty sure kc was near 90 last year too. So should keep it up till the decline.

 

[DRW204]

The Jets thrive on depth. I fear the Jets' offense would dry up on too many nights and they would struggle to score. I don't think we can count on Connor and Scheifele to continue to score at this high rate in future seasons, so the Jets can't afford to lose offensive pop in the lower lines.

the way the Jets are structured loading up the top line with CSV, that puts a high value on Ehlers' offensive production currently.

If gone imo i think they need someone to help with the transition play and offensive creation.

 

[Whileee]

These numbers are pretty in line with their usual numbers no? Pretty sure kc was near 90 last year too. So should keep it up till the decline.

Connor had 61 points in 65 games last season.

I think that if the Jets lose scoring spark in the middle 6 other teams will be able to focus even more on Scheifele and Connor.

Also, the PP has been rejuvenated with Ehlers.

 

[Flair Hay]

He is a pure goal scorer like nobody else on the team. He doesn't make blind passes and lose position of the puck in the O zone. He has scored more goals in the playoffs then Nikki has points. 32 out of 32 general managers would take him on their team over Nik.
Nik is better defensively but it's not by much. People on here bragging about his defensive capabilities should open their eyes.

A few notes on this:

Connor has 57 5v5 giveaways (19 in dzone) in 1112 mins. Basically 3.0/60 mins

Ehlers has 42 (14) in 712 mins. 3.5 per 60 mins. So Ehlers does turn it over more. But they do both turn it over in the offensive zone.

Scheifele has 80 5v5 turnovers in 1165 mins (4.1 per 60).

Turnovers are often largely a proxy for how often you have the puck. I was surprised to see Scheif leading this category though.

I agree he isnt really good defensively. His positive effect on goals against is pretty much entirely his elite transition ability. It is a positive impact nonetheless...

I agree Connor will get paid more and Nik's role is less valuable to the team than Connor. And that Connor has perofrmed better in the playoffs when it counts the most. That said, I think a lot of the narratives on Ehlers are just that. Things people tell themselves.

 

[Flair Hay]

Connor had 61 points in 65 games last season.

I think that if the Jets lose scoring spark in the middle 6 other teams will be able to focus even more on Scheifele and Connor.

Also, the PP has been rejuvenated with Ehlers.

Yeah our awful PP last year suppressed our top player point totals, this year it has inflated them.

Agree strongly on your point. Ehlers is a luxury we can afford so why not keep him?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

When was that?

Like I said, I can't remember who or when. Maybe 60 years ago. There was no NHLPA, no CBA. All kinds of strange clauses could end up in contracts.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Without Scheif, the Jets are shit.
Without Ehlers, the Jets are not shit.
You may disagree but you would be wrong.
8.5m is too much if you ask me.

You still seem to be missing the point. Ehlers is worth whatever he is worth without any reference to Scheifele's contract or what Scheifele is worth.

Your opinion is that Ehlers is not worth 8.5. Fine. That's an opinion. I'm not arguing the number. I'm arguing against using Scheifele's contract, or any other player's existing contract, as a limiting factor. The only way that can be valid is if you look at it as cap % at the time of signing.

If Scheifele was a pending UFA today, what would he be worth? Compare that number to Ehlers if you like. We would be talking 11 for Scheifele.

 

[Whileee]

Yeah our awful PP last year suppressed our top player point totals, this year it has inflated them.

Agree strongly on your point. Ehlers is a luxury we can afford so why not keep him?

Exactly. Even if it's mainly for the regular season we Jets fans have had the fun of watching the NHL's top team over the past two regular seasons. That's worth a lot and Ehlers has been a substantial part of that.

 

[10Ducky10]

You still seem to be missing the point. Ehlers is worth whatever he is worth without any reference to Scheifele's contract or what Scheifele is worth.

Your opinion is that Ehlers is not worth 8.5. Fine. That's an opinion. I'm not arguing the number. I'm arguing against using Scheifele's contract, or any other player's existing contract, as a limiting factor. The only way that can be valid is if you look at it as cap % at the time of signing.

If Scheifele was a pending UFA today, what would he be worth? Compare that number to Ehlers if you like. We would be talking 11 for Scheifele.

Ehlers is not worth 8.5m in my opinion.