Elks: Edmonton Eskimos 2018 v5

[rboomercat90]

I can't see any way we beat the Riders, and its going to be hard again to beat the Bombers. But a Lulayless BC Lions team isn't all that difficult. Jennings every 2nd weekend does completely nothing. if we get him on the right weekend..

I dunno. By my reckoning we lose 3/4 which given the crazy unexpectable CFL means we close out around 2/4 because some team manages to be somehow worse than us.

So .500 finish at best and most likely a sub .5oo finish is my call. Which is what I figured in February.

Again I’ll ask, how do we win those games?

You’ve detailed the problems this team has right now as well as anybody in this thread. The only plays we’ve had working have been deep balls to Walker or Williams. They’re both out. Reilly is banged up now and can’t accurately throw that deep ball anyway. Winnipeg figured out what this team was and held us to three points. Is Maas going to come up with a good game plan for his shortened roster? He wasn’t getting much from his full team. Wouldn’t surprise me if this team went winless the rest of the way.

 

[Stoneman89]

I think the curiousity is that either Sunderland or Maas, or both, thought these players were worth bringing in. Sure not making a difference.

As an aside we're apparently paying handsomely for Bazzie as well. That was our big get of the offseason. Winnipeg gets a destroyer like Bighill, we get Bazzie, oh well...

Very typical of a GM/coach bringing in guys they know from prior relationships. See Chris Jones, or Ed Hervey for more confirmation. Both of them brought in guys that were past it as well.

 

[joestevens29]

Very typical of a GM/coach bringing in guys they know from prior relationships. See Chris Jones, or Ed Hervey for more confirmation. Both of them brought in guys that were past it as well.

Rather common in most sports. Guys bring guys that they are familiar with and trust.

 

[MoontoScott]

Very typical of a GM/coach bringing in guys they know from prior relationships. See Chris Jones, or Ed Hervey for more confirmation. Both of them brought in guys that were past it as well.

And Jake Ceresna for Willis (who was no longer in the EE plans) has turned out to be a pretty good trade. Ceresna has emerged as a starter and is only 24 years of age.

Hightower and Thompson also ex-Ottawa and are 2 of the better D-backs we have brought in the last decade.

There are still a number of talented football players on the club.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Again I’ll ask, how do we win those games?

You’ve detailed the problems this team has right now as well as anybody in this thread. The only plays we’ve had working have been deep balls to Walker or Williams. They’re both out. Reilly is banged up now and can’t accurately throw that deep ball anyway. Winnipeg figured out what this team was and held us to three points. Is Maas going to come up with a good game plan for his shortened roster? He wasn’t getting much from his full team. Wouldn’t surprise me if this team went winless the rest of the way.

Its not like I disagree. But really weird things happen in the CFL almost as a rule. The word is that Reilly will play and that if Williams can even catch he'll play. I would prefer both sitout the Riders game because we're not winning that one anyway.

 

[MoontoScott]

Very typical of a GM/coach bringing in guys they know from prior relationships. See Chris Jones, or Ed Hervey for more confirmation. Both of them brought in guys that were past it as well.

I think we have to look at a few positives for our sophomore GM because I think he's done a decent job.

Ceresna trade=winner
Gable trade= winner
Jackson trade= eventual winner if we can get him some blocks
Brought in ex Ottawa players Hightower and Taylorand brought Thompson back all guys who have helped the team.
Showed Bowman and his big salary the door. Bowman has 325 yards receiving this year--peanuts in the CFL. If you don't cut Bowman then how can you pay Walker in 2019-20? 8 other teams would love to have Walker.
Re-signed Konar, not a blockbuster but not bad.
I am not sure if he pushed for Boateng in the later rounds or not but he is the best Canadian the club has drafted in the last 20 years.

Remember that Maas is not Sunderland's boy--he's not the high visibility (but shouldn't be) President of the club

 

[Stoneman89]

And Jake Ceresna for Willis (who was no longer in the EE plans) has turned out to be a pretty good trade. Ceresna has emerged as a starter and is only 24 years of age.

Hightower and Thompson also ex-Ottawa and are 2 of the better D-backs we have brought in the last decade.

There are still a number of talented football players on the club.

For sure, I like Ceresna too and think it was a very good trade that will look even better with time. Hightower is meh for me, and Thompson may never be the same. Some of the guys that are brought over are decent and others are not. My point was to counter that GM's and coaches tend to bring over guys that they are familiar with, that turn out good or bad.

 

[Stoneman89]

I think we have to look at a few positives for our sophomore GM because I think he's done a decent job.

Ceresna trade=winner
Gable trade= winner
Jackson trade= eventual winner if we can get him some blocks
Brought in ex Ottawa players Hightower and Taylorand brought Thompson back all guys who have helped the team.
Showed Bowman and his big salary the door. Bowman has 325 yards receiving this year--peanuts in the CFL. If you don't cut Bowman then how can you pay Walker in 2019-20? 8 other teams would love to have Walker.
Re-signed Konar, not a blockbuster but not bad.
I am not sure if he pushed for Boateng in the later rounds or not but he is the best Canadian the club has drafted in the last 20 years.

Remember that Maas is not Sunderland's boy--he's not the high visibility (but shouldn't be) President of the club

Good information, but not sure what this post has to do with my previous comment.

 

[MoontoScott]

Good information, but not sure what this post has to do with my previous comment.

Just trying to come up with some positives (I think that you suggested that somewhere) and I think that there are some that need to be mentioned.

There are a number of players on this roster that would be gone in an instant if they were offered up for trade so I think that the future is brighter than some realize and I hope that Sunderland is brought back for 2019.

 

[bone]

Just trying to come up with some positives (I think that you suggested that somewhere) and I think that there are some that need to be mentioned.

There are a number of players on this roster that would be gone in an instant if they were offered up for trade so I think that the future is brighter than some realize and I hope that Sunderland is brought back for 2019.

Any criticism I throw out aren't to suggest I don't agree. I think he deserves another year to make his full mark on the team.

We're where we are at right now as he inherited a decent team and has done a decent job of keeping most of the pieces together. I understand and agreed with this approach considering how they gelled after the injuries settled down last year and this being a grey cup hosting season.

However, now that we're seeing that the current group needs a shakeup (assuming no miracle run to finish off) it's up to him to prove he has the ability to improve a team while shaking it up a bit. I look forward to seeing the results.

 

[Stoneman89]

Just trying to come up with some positives (I think that you suggested that somewhere) and I think that there are some that need to be mentioned.

There are a number of players on this roster that would be gone in an instant if they were offered up for trade so I think that the future is brighter than some realize and I hope that Sunderland is brought back for 2019.

My God, okay. Again, you're missing the point as to the discussion that this was about but whatever. Yes, thank you for the positives.

 

[Stoneman89]

Rather common in most sports. Guys bring guys that they are familiar with and trust.

Of course, it's what I've been trying to get across to some individuals. Whether the players they bring in turn out to be good, bad, or otherwise is another discussion.

 

[Cloned]

tbh given the current trend of GC winners and their "performances" in the regular season before they win the GC, I wouldn't be surprised if the Esks actually won the GC this year. The CFL is known for lousy teams winning the GC, especially since the end of the Als dynasty.

 

[MoontoScott]

Any criticism I throw out aren't to suggest I don't agree. I think he deserves another year to make his full mark on the team.

We're where we are at right now as he inherited a decent team and has done a decent job of keeping most of the pieces together. I understand and agreed with this approach considering how they gelled after the injuries settled down last year and this being a grey cup hosting season.

However, now that we're seeing that the current group needs a shakeup (assuming no miracle run to finish off) it's up to him to prove he has the ability to improve a team while shaking it up a bit. I look forward to seeing the results.

Thanks for being more objective than others have been about Sunderland. I am not saying that this guy is going to be a great GM but lets compare his 18 months on the job (a relatively small sample) to our previous 3 GM's:

Danny M.--- Nice person but a series of absolutely disastrous head scratching trades. On the Richter scale they were a 9.5 The man was never GM material. I'll be kind and give him a D+

Eric T.-- This person should never have made it to the perimeter of the city before being exiled. He traded our no.1 QB just to show that he could and had no succession plan in place for a new number one arm. I was also told by someone who worked in the igloo that people didn't want to come to work when this guy showed up, the good news being that he was usually in Regina. I can't think of any positive for this dude and of course he hired Kavis Reed, one of the worst coaches in EE history. A big smoking F for this pair.

Ed Hervey-- Ed obviously made some very good player moves. But Ed had a lot of issues with others and was apparently not even on speaking terms with Jones by Grey Cup 2015 (not that Jones is any sweet guy but hey you can say good morning to him) There were similar issues with Hervey as a player. The thing is though that Ed was the guy who hired Maas and that has certainly not been a great move. The most important thing a GM does is hire the coach. Credit for hiring Jones and showing Reed the door but I think he overestimated what Jason could do. Granted, Jones selfishness didn't leave Ed with a lot of options but Maas wasn't the only guy who would have taken the job. I would give Ed a B-B+ for his time here but he didn't do himself any favours with some of his actions. We'll see how he does in B.C. over the long term. I think Wally is the real boss right now.

Brock Sunderland-- I can't point to any single action on his part which would rank him with Danny or Eric. He hasn't brought in a ton of talent but these are different times and the storied airlifts of the 70's and 80's are history. Add to that the fact that the Esks are no longer the holy grail in the CFL. Players are no longer banging at the Esks door the way they once were. I will give him a B to date and that could change with a larger sample size.

Well, that's my take on Sunderland. I welcome any responses and won't offer a rebuttal.

 

[RegDunlop]

Thanks for being more objective than others have been about Sunderland. I am not saying that this guy is going to be a great GM but lets compare his 18 months on the job (a relatively small sample) to our previous 3 GM's:

Danny M.--- Nice person but a series of absolutely disastrous head scratching trades. On the Richter scale they were a 9.5 The man was never GM material. I'll be kind and give him a D+

Eric T.-- This person should never have made it to the perimeter of the city before being exiled. He traded our no.1 QB just to show that he could and had no succession plan in place for a new number one arm. I was also told by someone who worked in the igloo that people didn't want to come to work when this guy showed up, the good news being that he was usually in Regina. I can't think of any positive for this dude and of course he hired Kavis Reed, one of the worst coaches in EE history. A big smoking F for this pair.

Ed Hervey-- Ed obviously made some very good player moves. But Ed had a lot of issues with others and was apparently not even on speaking terms with Jones by Grey Cup 2015 (not that Jones is any sweet guy but hey you can say good morning to him) There were similar issues with Hervey as a player. The thing is though that Ed was the guy who hired Maas and that has certainly not been a great move. The most important thing a GM does is hire the coach. Credit for hiring Jones and showing Reed the door but I think he overestimated what Jason could do. Granted, Jones selfishness didn't leave Ed with a lot of options but Maas wasn't the only guy who would have taken the job. I would give Ed a B-B+ for his time here but he didn't do himself any favours with some of his actions. We'll see how he does in B.C. over the long term. I think Wally is the real boss right now.

Brock Sunderland-- I can't point to any single action on his part which would rank him with Danny or Eric. He hasn't brought in a ton of talent but these are different times and the storied airlifts of the 70's and 80's are history. Add to that the fact that the Esks are no longer the holy grail in the CFL. Players are no longer banging at the Esks door the way they once were. I will give him a B to date and that could change with a larger sample size.

Well, that's my take on Sunderland. I welcome any responses and won't offer a rebuttal.

I like what you state.
I am a Moss fan but he made abysmal mistakes late last year and obviously hasn't learned from them. Unfortunately this is a success driven business and he is not successful.
To that point, I would rate Ed Hervey a bit higher. Not sure about the player relations stiff, but he did bring talent and provided a return to excitement of you ask me. And I have to admit I thought Kavis Reed would do a better job.

As for EricT, agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Stoneman89]

tbh given the current trend of GC winners and their "performances" in the regular season before they win the GC, I wouldn't be surprised if the Esks actually won the GC this year. The CFL is known for lousy teams winning the GC, especially since the end of the Als dynasty.

That's the beauty (or the crapiness, dependent on where you are in the standings) regarding a one shot chance. No best of seven, no best of 3. Just whoever is the best and/or gets the breaks on a given day. Of course, I would think the majority of those teams with mediocre records that won the GC were trending well towards the end of the season. Don't see that at this point with the Esks.

 

[Stoneman89]

Thanks for being more objective than others have been about Sunderland. I am not saying that this guy is going to be a great GM but lets compare his 18 months on the job (a relatively small sample) to our previous 3 GM's:

Danny M.--- Nice person but a series of absolutely disastrous head scratching trades. On the Richter scale they were a 9.5 The man was never GM material. I'll be kind and give him a D+

Eric T.-- This person should never have made it to the perimeter of the city before being exiled. He traded our no.1 QB just to show that he could and had no succession plan in place for a new number one arm. I was also told by someone who worked in the igloo that people didn't want to come to work when this guy showed up, the good news being that he was usually in Regina. I can't think of any positive for this dude and of course he hired Kavis Reed, one of the worst coaches in EE history. A big smoking F for this pair.

Ed Hervey-- Ed obviously made some very good player moves. But Ed had a lot of issues with others and was apparently not even on speaking terms with Jones by Grey Cup 2015 (not that Jones is any sweet guy but hey you can say good morning to him) There were similar issues with Hervey as a player. The thing is though that Ed was the guy who hired Maas and that has certainly not been a great move. The most important thing a GM does is hire the coach. Credit for hiring Jones and showing Reed the door but I think he overestimated what Jason could do. Granted, Jones selfishness didn't leave Ed with a lot of options but Maas wasn't the only guy who would have taken the job. I would give Ed a B-B+ for his time here but he didn't do himself any favours with some of his actions. We'll see how he does in B.C. over the long term. I think Wally is the real boss right now.

Brock Sunderland-- I can't point to any single action on his part which would rank him with Danny or Eric. He hasn't brought in a ton of talent but these are different times and the storied airlifts of the 70's and 80's are history. Add to that the fact that the Esks are no longer the holy grail in the CFL. Players are no longer banging at the Esks door the way they once were. I will give him a B to date and that could change with a larger sample size.

Well, that's my take on Sunderland. I welcome any responses and won't offer a rebuttal.

I agree about Sunderland, and the grade you gave him. Short sample size muddies his grade. He's made some decent moves, and others not so good, so kind of a sideways move at this point. He's still green as a GM, so we'll see if he can grow into the role and improve. Not so sure about our coach. I look for improvement, not the same mistakes that seem to be made time and again, and obvious issues that do not get addressed.

 

[MoontoScott]

CFL already feeling pinch from upstart AAF

This won't make it any easier for GM's in the CFL especially with the old pact expiring.

I wonder if Mike and Bo will both get new addresses over the Winter?

The new AAF league probably can't afford Bo but I am pretty sure that the NFL will be interested.

 

[joestevens29]

CFL already feeling pinch from upstart AAF

This won't make it any easier for GM's in the CFL especially with the old pact expiring.

I wonder if Mike and Bo will both get new addresses over the Winter?

The new AAF league probably can't afford Bo but I am pretty sure that the NFL will be interested.

The shitty part is the league cutting spending for management/coaching roles.

I'd really just say it's up to the CFL to hire better scouts, but that's not even an option

 

[bone]

CFL already feeling pinch from upstart AAF

This won't make it any easier for GM's in the CFL especially with the old pact expiring.

I wonder if Mike and Bo will both get new addresses over the Winter?

The new AAF league probably can't afford Bo but I am pretty sure that the NFL will be interested.

I don't think we need to worry about the Mike's or Bo's of the world leaving yet as the AAF has a set salary which is significantly lower than what they currently get paid. Perhaps the bonus' could get them into a similar range, but I think they'd rather take the more secure option (neither is at risk of being cut next year).

This threat is moreso to the rookies or mid-level internationals. As the pay is definitely better (at least per game) than what'd they receive in Canada.

If the league becomes a success and salaries go up, then our star players may be a flight risk. Frankly, I think the best thing the CFL could do is partner with them rather than try to compete. The schedules don't really interfere, so maybe some of those mid-level players would want to play both leagues understanding they are risking their salaries in the other league if they have a major injury.

 

[MoontoScott]

I don't think we need to worry about the Mike's or Bo's of the world leaving yet as the AAF has a set salary which is significantly lower than what they currently get paid. Perhaps the bonus' could get them into a similar range, but I think they'd rather take the more secure option (neither is at risk of being cut next year).

This threat is moreso to the rookies or mid-level internationals. As the pay is definitely better (at least per game) than what'd they receive in Canada.

If the league becomes a success and salaries go up, then our star players may be a flight risk. Frankly, I think the best thing the CFL could do is partner with them rather than try to compete. The schedules don't really interfere, so maybe some of those mid-level players would want to play both leagues understanding they are risking their salaries in the other league if they have a major injury.

I agree that the new league can't afford the big ticket players but in the case of BLM I think the NFL will be interested.

Bo grew up in Texas and is known there to the football establishment so I think the Cowboys (with no solid backup to Prescott) will have at least a passing interest. I also think that Garcia has really pitched Mitchell to his old club the 49'ers so I would say that they too have will have a passing arm interest. At age 28 its probably now or never for him.

As for Mikey well if he is determined to play closer to home and Hervey is willing to break the bank to get him then there probably isn't much the Esks can do. He will be 34 come next season so probably 3 years left before the serious decline.

It will be a very interesting off-season but in the meantime the EE are not done yet for 2018 (I hope).

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

I'm more worried that MR's leaving at the end of this year to play for his old team (and GM).

 

[iCanada]

I'm more worried that MR's leaving at the end of this year to play for his old team (and GM).

Don't you worry... not having the reigning MOP just impacts winning. How often do i have to remind you that there are more important things?

 

[MaxR11]

Len Rhodes need to go. Firing Hervey was a bad move. Hervey bled green and gold and brought in some outstanding talent. I think we'll toil in mediocrity at best with Blunderland. I feel like that fire and desire to win at all cost has waned since Hervey left. The attitude starts from the top. Rhodes is a business man ho doesn't know or really care about winning as long as the bucks are coming in with "proper branding". I think in his eyes, as long as the team is above 500 and fans are coming to games that's good enough for him. I don't feel his standards are win the cup at all cost.

 

[Stoneman89]

Len Rhodes need to go. Firing Hervey was a bad move. Hervey bled green and gold and brought in some outstanding talent. I think we'll toil in mediocrity at best with Blunderland. I feel like that fire and desire to win at all cost has waned since Hervey left. The attitude starts from the top. Rhodes is a business man ho doesn't know or really care about winning as long as the bucks are coming in with "proper branding". I think in his eyes, as long as the team is above 500 and fans are coming to games that's good enough for him. I don't feel his standards are win the cup at all cost.

Shouldn't be up to him to win the cup. That's on the GM and coach.