Proposal: EDM - MN

[roon]

And? He's worth it. Draisaitl is worth the 13 million he's going to get. Pay great players what they're worth. On a 90+ million dollar cap, 28 million going to two of the best players in the league isn't a worry.

28 million to them

9.2 million to Nurse

Bouchard is going to be paid more than Nurse.

You are all of a sudden over half your cap in 4 players.

Nobody is going to help you out of either that Nurse or Campbell contract unless you seriously overpay. EDM is going to have some tough choices.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Huberdeau and Weegar had one year left to UFA and the Panthers weren't going to be able to re-sign them both.

I don't think 29 year old Huberdeau with one year of control was worth more than 23 year old Boldy with 6 more years of control.

I don't think 28 year old Weegar with 1 year of control was worth more than Rossi who is on an ELC and still has at least 3 years of team control.

I'm also not sure 29 year old Leon has more value now than 24 year old Tkachuk who was an RFA. But either way the value here seems pretty close to me

But Calgary did sign them long term. They traded for those players knowing that they'd be able to keep them around. Florida traded for Tkachuk knowing they'd be able to keep HIM around.

The rest of the argument falls apart when you realize that all pieces involved were long term pieces for the teams in question because they all felt that they could keep them around, and they did.

UFA and RFA status doesn't mean that much in this case. OP clearly stated this would be a long term extended Draisaitl.

 

[Double Dion]

Bold 1: OP pretty clearly said it was an extended Draisaitl.

Bold 2: Ekholm was the lone time Ken Holland got off his has to make a trade to help this team longterm, not a UFA signing.

#1. Fair point. My question is why would Draisaitl sign an extension in Edmonton to be traded to Minnesota. Seems really dumb.

2. I know Ekholm wasn't a UFA signing. I misspoke. I'd say Ekholm was most definitely not Holland's only good move. Hyman was every bit as crucial. He has made some mistakes, but it's a tough gig being the GM of a Canadian team. Very few players want to play here.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

28 million to them

9.2 million to Nurse

Bouchard is going to be paid more than Nurse.

You are all of a sudden over half your cap in 4 players.

Nobody is going to help you out of either that Nurse or Campbell contract unless you seriously overpay. EDM is going to have some tough choices.

Whether or not to trade Draisaitl if he wants to be here isn't one of them.

Florida had nearly half their cap going to Tkachuk, Barkov, Bob, and Ekblad. Colorado has half its cap going toward their stars. Dallas has half its cap going to its top 4. The Rangers have 40 million to their top 4. The Leafs. The Knights. The Bolts. The list goes on. Great teams typically have great players who get big contracts based on the fact that they're the best in the game.

Smart teams deal off the bottom of the deck. The prime Blackhawks never traded Kane or Toews. Prime Penguins had Crosby and Malkin for the duration. Prime Kings had Koptiar and Doughty. Teams that deal their superstars in the name of cap space never win anything.

 

[roon]

Whether or not to trade Draisaitl if he wants to be here isn't one of them.

Florida had nearly half their cap going to Tkachuk, Barkov, Bob, and Ekblad. Colorado has half its cap going toward their stars. Dallas has half its cap going to its top 4. The Rangers have 40 million to their top 4. The Leafs. The Knights. The Bolts. The list goes on. Great teams typically have great players who get big contracts based on the fact that they're the best in the game.

Smart teams deal off the bottom of the deck. The prime Blackhawks never traded Kane or Toews. Prime Penguins had Crosby and Malkin for the duration. Prime Kings had Koptiar and Doughty. Teams that deal their superstars in the name of cap space never win anything.

Right - but several of those teams had Cap tied up in star players strategically. The Oilers are about as top heavy as they get when it comes to actual talent.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Right - but several of those teams had Cap tied up in star players strategically. The Oilers are about as top heavy as they get when it comes to actual talent.

how is those teams tying up their cap in their stars "strategic" but Edmonton doing so... not?

Hyman, RNH, Ekholm, Bouchard, Skinner. Holloway and Broberg both had very good playoffs. McLeod had his moments.

We had the best PK in playoff history largely staffed by role players. What you're saying is simply inaccurate.

 

[roon]

how is those teams tying up their cap in their stars "strategic" but Edmonton doing so... not?

Hyman, RNH, Ekholm, Bouchard, Skinner. Holloway and Broberg both had very good playoffs. McLeod had his moments.

We had the best PK in playoff history largely staffed by role players. What you're saying is simply inaccurate.

The teams that you mentioned - have superstar Defense and goalies in addition to forwards...and being paid as such. Bouchard is still under paid for his performance. Meanwhile you all are paying Darnell Fing Nurse like he is Cale Makar. What I am saying is - you are going to have to start paying for that performance...which will be very difficult if you have over half your cap tied up in 4 guys...2 of whom actually deserve the money they are getting.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The teams that you mentioned - have superstar Defense and goalies in addition to forwards...and being paid as such. Bouchard is still under paid for his performance. Meanwhile you all are paying Darnell Fing Nurse like he is Cale Makar. What I am saying is - you are going to have to start paying for that performance...which will be very difficult if you have over half your cap tied up in 4 guys...2 of whom actually deserve the money they are getting.

That means Darnell Fing Nurse is the problem, not paying Leon Draisaitl, and we should be working to move Darnell Fing Nurse, not losing trades for Leon Draisaitl for no reason.

The only way we trade Draisaitl is if he tells us he doesn't want to be here.

Also Ekholm and Bouchard were arguably the best D-pairing in the NHL this year.

 

[roon]

That means Darnell Fing Nurse is the problem, not paying Leon Draisaitl, and we should be working to move Darnell Fing Nurse, not losing trades for Leon Draisaitl for no reason.

You're trading Drai because nobody will take Nurse's contract for anything you are willing to pay. He is overpaid by 5 million easy.

The only way we trade Draisaitl is if he tells us he doesn't want to be here.

Also Ekholm and Bouchard were arguably the best D-pairing in the NHL this year.

Really? I rooted for Edmonton and watched Bouchard closely. That guy is basically a forward on the backend.....Ekholm plays defense so Bouchard can shoot clappers from the point. The amount of turnovers and goals Bouchard was directly responsible for was mind blowing for a #1 pairing guy.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You're trading Drai because nobody will take Nurse's contract for anything you are willing to pay. He is overpaid by 5 million easy.



Really? I rooted for Edmonton and watched Bouchard closely. That guy is basically a forward on the backend.....Ekholm plays defense so Bouchard can shoot clappers from the point. The amount of turnovers and goals Bouchard was directly responsible for was mind blowing for a #1 pairing guy.

We're not trading Drai if he wants to stay. I would rather have a fourth line and 3rd pairing of league minimum deals than trade him in a deal like yours. Flat out.

Then you don't understand what you're watching. No player in the league generated as many scoring chances or high danger chances as Bouchard did. And that includes McDavid. He has some defensive warts, to be sure, but he legitimately has a claim as the best OFD in the league right now.

 

[roon]

We're not trading Drai if he wants to stay. I would rather have a fourth line and 3rd pairing of league minimum deals than trade him in a deal like yours. Flat out.

Then you don't understand what you're watching. No player in the league generated as many scoring chances or high danger chances as Bouchard did. And that includes McDavid. He has some defensive warts, to be sure, but he legitimately has a claim as the best OFD in the league right now.

Sure he generated chances - but he couldn't defend against them to save his life.

 

[TFHockey]

Sure he generated chances - but he couldn't defend against them to save his life.

That isn't true. Hyperbole as usual.

The Oilers won't make a $hitty Draisaitl trade because they have Nurse under contract, no matter how much you may want them to.

 

[Seachd]

Sure he generated chances - but he couldn't defend against them to save his life.

This shows you seem to have him confused with someone else.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Sure he generated chances - but he couldn't defend against them to save his life.

on a per 60 basis, Bouchard was on the ice for fewer high danger chances against than any regular Wild defenceman. Including Brodin and Faber.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

on a per 60 basis, Bouchard was on the ice for fewer high danger chances against than any regular Wild defenceman. Including Brodin and Faber.

I don't mean to rag on Bouchard, because I do think he's a good player, but how much of that specific stat is him defending vs. playing with McDavid in the offensive zone.

His TOI with/without McDavid are pretty much the opposite of Faber's with Kaprizov (800+ minutes with McDavid, 500+ without vs. 500+ with kaprizov, 800+ without).

Again, I'm not agreeing that Bouchard sucks defensively, just not sure that stat tells everything that it might look like.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I don't mean to rag on Bouchard, because I do think he's a good player, but how much of that specific stat is him defending vs. playing with McDavid in the offensive zone.

His TOI with/without McDavid are pretty much the opposite of Faber's with Kaprizov (800+ minutes with McDavid, 500+ without vs. 500+ with kaprizov, 800+ without).

Again, I'm not agreeing that Bouchard sucks defensively, just not sure that stat tells everything that it might look like.

Well, if you went as far as to look at his TOI, did you see his splits?

58% CF, 58.5% GF, 57% SCF%, 59.6% HDCF% in 626 5v5 minutes away from McDavid. Those are eye popping numbers.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Well, if you went as far as to look at his TOI, did you see his splits?

58% CF, 58.5% GF, 57% SCF%, 59.6% HDCF% in 626 5v5 minutes away from McDavid. Those are eye popping numbers.

True, but those are still 50% offensive numbers, and "away from McDavid" includes "with Draisaitl". Obviously some of the Draisaitl time is from when he and McDavid play together, but it's still pretty hard to parse out.

Measuring defense with numbers is still pretty imperfect.

I'll leave this one alone because I still wasn't calling Bouchard bad or anything.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

True, but those are still 50% offensive numbers, and "away from McDavid" includes "with Draisaitl". Obviously some of the Draisaitl time is from when he and McDavid play together, but it's still pretty hard to parse out.

Measuring defense with numbers is still pretty imperfect.

I'll leave this one alone because I still wasn't calling Bouchard bad or anything.

it is imperfect, but I still think it's better than measuring it with eyes.

Draisaitl is maybe my favourite player of all time, but he's hardly an analytical giant. His fancies have largely been pretty pedestrian.

I get you're not dumping on him but I still think there's this perception among other fanbases that he's a product of the star forwards and he's not.

Without McDavid and without Draisaitl, Bouchard's new numbers are 57% CF%, 54.29% GF%, 54.91 XGF%, 55.6 SCF%, and 56% HDCF. Still doing more than keeping his head above water.

 

[eviohh26]

Pass if i was Minni. You need more than 1 player to win. That's a lot of good pieces for just 1 piece.

Also if Dria leaves I cannot see a scenario where McDavid stays. You either keep both or lose both. Doubt you can keep just 1.

 

[The Don Hughes]

Lots of unknowns in EDM and I understand that moving Drai is unlikely but hear me out.


To EDM -
Matt Boldy
Marco Rossi
2025 1st - Top 3 protected

To MN -
Drai - Extended


The Wild get their number 1 - Top 5 C in the league with 3-4 years left of his prime. Also - I feel like we have the forward talent in the pipeline to absorb this loss...EDM gets younger and cheaper with some talent that can extend McDavids window without having to tie up close to 30 million in Cap between 2 forwards.

If you don't like the Rossi add we can discuss other options.

I'm sure some on both sides will think this is a terrible proposal - but offers for top 5 forwards usually get that reaction.

I just can't see an extended Drai being traded. It would gut the team that trades for him for want the Oilers would want. I don't see it make sense. It would need to be a rental I believe, and at that point, the Oilers might keep that rental for themselves if they want to make a final push.