Proposal: EDM - CGY

[TFHockey]

I think like 5 teams beat that offer without blinking.

Retain 50% and he's the best contract in the league for two playoff runs.

Geez, two firsts without conditions, the Oilers first round pick this year or their best prospect and the smallest contract possible coming back? I dunno man, that seems like a legit offer from the Oilers.

Also, no extension, so he might even sign back with Calgary after. The option is there,

Edit: If you think 5 teams beat that easily can you post those teams and the offers you think would be there? Or even one? Hard to imagine.

 

[dgibb10]

Seemed pretty unanimous that he was the best one. Fell off last year due to being hit by a damn car but otherwise he was always my pick. Maybe Weegar snuck ahead of him to some people.

Hanifin was usually third. Tanev almost always 4th. Just no offense

They all got similar usage.

Andersson generally had the worst results.

Tanev in terms of an asset probably 4th best for sure (because the concern was injuries and when he will fall off), but he was clearly elite defensively through his time in Calgary.

And both Hanifin and Weegar had better results away from Andersson than with him. (all got similar usage, but I'd say Andersson got the easier minutes).

Maybe Andersson was the better PP QB, although I don't think he's anything special there.



Even going all the way back, Marc Giordano had better results when he wasn't paired with Andersson compared to when he was

 

[TheNumber4]

Nah. No at any cost.

Rasmus and the Flames can’t be trusted.

Rasmus got his ass beat by Nurse in a preseason game in his first year, never let go of it for YEARS. Waiting and biding his time to get revenge, eventually he found an oppurtunity to sucker punch and jump the Oilers smallest player in Yamamoto for revenge. This petty asshole is more likely to join the Oilers for the sole purpose of tanking our playoff runs than he would be here to help.

Plus, how many times do I have to say this. The Flames owners are also petty assholes. They will NOT trade to the Oilers even if it’s an overpay. They like to dangle the carrot and waste our time and energy at the TDL only to trade the player to another team.

 

[TFHockey]

Nah. No at any cost.

Rasmus and the Flames can’t be trusted.

Rasmus got his ass beat by Nurse in a preseason game in his first year, never let go of it for YEARS. Waiting and biding his time to get revenge, eventually he found an oppurtunity to sucker punch and jump the Oilers smallest player in Yamamoto for revenge. This petty asshole is more likely to join the Oilers for the sole purpose of tanking our playoff runs than he would be here to help.

Plus, how many times do I have to say this. The Flames owners are also petty assholes. They will NOT trade to the Oilers even if it’s an overpay. They like to dangle the carrot and waste our time and energy at the TDL only to trade the player to another team.

I cannot imagine any player would sabotage their own chances of hoisting a cup just to fuel some rivalry. Most players, who join a club they've had run-ins with in the past are usually welcomed with opened arms. Hockey players are a fraternity. Guys you want to murder on the ice are the same guys you have a beer with afterwards.

 

[DJJones]

Geez, two firsts without conditions, the Oilers first round pick this year or their best prospect and the smallest contract possible coming back? I dunno man, that seems like a legit offer from the Oilers.

Also, no extension, so he might even sign back with Calgary after. The option is there,

Edit: If you think 5 teams beat that easily can you post those teams and the offers you think would be there? Or even one? Hard to imagine.

Whoever has the best prospect to give away. People overrate late firsts. I don't want a Sam O'Reilly. Especially when we're giving a top pairing D for like 2 million cap.

A 20 year old that's developed well and tracks to be a player is worth 3 of those

 

[Realm]

I know, I posted this mainly because it's a provincial rival.

Also, *IF* the Oilers win one of those picks becomes #32 which really isn't that bad to give up. Win the Cup twice and it's twice as easy to stomach.

In other words, I am counting on those being late firsts. The problem arises when they aren't.

Well if they knew they would win 2 cups sure, give up 6 1st round picks and fans will be ok. If it doesn't work out goodbye future even at 2-3 worth of 1st round picks. They are already around 30th in the league in prospects, trade your #1 or #2 prospect and 2 1st round picks (they are already without 1) would be awful.

 

[DJJones]

They all got similar usage.

Andersson generally had the worst results.

Tanev in terms of an asset probably 4th best for sure (because the concern was injuries and when he will fall off), but he was clearly elite defensively through his time in Calgary.

View attachment 926247

And both Hanifin and Weegar had better results away from Andersson than with him. (all got similar usage, but I'd say Andersson got the easier minutes).

Maybe Andersson was the better PP QB, although I don't think he's anything special there.



Even going all the way back, Marc Giordano had better results when he wasn't paired with Andersson compared to when he was

That also includes the best 30-40 game stretch I'd ever seen from Hanifin and the worst from Andersson. Last year was definitely a down year for Andersson. No argument there from me.

Before last year no one put Hanifin ahead of Andersson. He regularly had a minute or two of TOI over Hanifin. They were all close enough there was no objectively right answer but Andersson was the consensus favorite from what I could tell. Weegar I'd say was more likely to be ranked higher but then this year Andersson has been our best player by a mile.

 

[Soundwave]

I think Sam O'Reilly is gonna be a player, he looked at lot better to me at the same age versus comparable like Holloway and McLeod.

I don't think Andersson works within the long term cap structure of the Oilers anyway, if he does well (which I would assume would be the point) then he will want probably north of 8 mill on his next deal which doesn't work unless you can find a taker for Nurse.

Weegar might honestly be the better fit.

 

[DJJones]

I think Sam O'Reilly is gonna be a player, he looked at lot better to me at the same age versus comparable like Holloway and McLeod.

I don't think Andersson works within the long term cap structure of the Oilers anyway, if he does well (which I would assume would be the point) then he will want probably north of 8 mill on his next deal which doesn't work unless you can find a taker for Nurse.

Looks like a solid pick for #32. Trading up was likely a good move.

But like we already have Basha and Gridin are pretty much the exact same class of player. We have good prospect depth, we need some stars.

 

[McJedi]

I'd say yes to that if I was running the Flames. Even coming from the hated Oilers. Business is business and that seems like very good value for Andersson.

 

[dgibb10]

That also includes the best 30-40 game stretch I'd ever seen from Hanifin and the worst from Andersson. Last year was definitely a down year for Andersson. No argument there from me.

Before last year no one put Hanifin ahead of Andersson. He regularly had a minute or two of TOI over Hanifin. They were all close enough there was no objectively right answer but Andersson was the consensus favorite from what I could tell. Weegar I'd say was more likely to be ranked higher but then this year Andersson has been our best player by a mile.

I can go back as many years as you want tho. Hanifin had the better expected goal share in every year but 18-19

 

[DJJones]

I can go back as many years as you want tho. Hanifin had the better expected goal share in every year but 18-19

That was Anderssons first year in the league. Hanifin was branded as a development miss who'll forever be a 2nd pairing guy back then. Few years ago this site wouldn't even put him in top 50 rankings.

Hell I liked Hanifin more than most but until last year he got zero respect. Even in 2022/2023 people were giving the credit to Tanev.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

I can go back as many years as you want tho. Hanifin had the better expected goal share in every year but 18-19

Go as far back as you want, you clearly do not watch this team. You can spend all the time you want on message boards, but if you're going to comment on players, you should actually watch them play.

As far as the offer, if Ras is retained this is an offer that would be hard to refuse.
But what is with Edm & Tor fans always crying about us not making a trade with them? We're not obligated to deal with you - deal with it.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

If he's traded he'll return a bounty, but not three firsts. Dude has a darling contract and two more years left.. Add in retention and he's going to be the hottest target this deadline of we deal him.

 

[Some Other Flame]

It's a legit and fair-ish offer. Given the dearth of center prospects in Flames' system, I could see them being very interested in Sam O'Reilly (especially since he's a right handed shot) over any of the other Oilers prospects. All two of them. The two firsts might make it seem like overpay but they're gonna be near the end of the round; not all firsts are created equal.

That being said, I still wouldn't do it.

 

[dgibb10]

That was Anderssons first year in the league. Hanifin was branded as a development miss who'll forever be a 2nd pairing guy back then. Few years ago this site wouldn't even put him in top 50 rankings.

Hell I liked Hanifin more than most but until last year he got zero respect. Even in 2022/2023 people were giving the credit to Tanev.

19-20 was the only year Andersson outperformed Hanifin*, typo on my part, and the only truly elite year of his career

You don't think it's interesting that other calgary flames dmen CONSISTENTLY have had better on ice results without Andersson since the start of his career?

 

[DJJones]

19-20 was the only year Andersson outperformed Hanifin*, typo on my part, and the only truly elite year of his career

You don't think it's interesting that other calgary flames dmen CONSISTENTLY have better on ice results without Andersson?

Tanev was the best analytically of the four. Zadorov and kylington were also above them

Not everything can be seen in a jfresh chart

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I can go back as many years as you want tho. Hanifin had the better expected goal share in every year but 18-19

Hanifin almost always leads his team in that and Corsi For. He shoots the puck a lot. But it is very often high or wide.

As many have already said, outside of last season where Andersson was clearly playing bad he has always been considered better than Hanifin. It's like comparing Pulock and Dobson. One is a well rounded #2 that plays both ends of the ice, and the other is a #1 OFD.

It's also worth noting that Andersson never played with Tanev, who was consistently a top 3 shutdown defenseman in the league during his time in Calgary. Hanifin played 2/4 seasons with him. Any player who partners with Tanev massively has their defensive numbers skyrocket (with the exception of Weegar who is already similarly good defensively).

 

[dgibb10]

Hanifin almost always leads his team in that and Corsi For. He shoots the puck a lot. But it is very often high or wide.

As many have already said, outside of last season where Andersson was clearly playing bad he has always been considered better than Hanifin. It's like comparing Pulock and Dobson. One is a well rounded #2 that plays both ends of the ice, and the other is a #1 OFD

To pretend the offensive gap is anything comparable to pulock and dobson is ridiculous.
This is pulock and dobson EV since 2021

Hanifin and Andersson have virtually identical EV production over the last 3 years (+this portion of this year). I'm going to hide the names for you so you can guess, but here.

They also have virtually identical on ice marks

Even on the power play it's VERY similar production

Although Andersson has the edge in on ice (likely due to PP1 vs PP2 utilization)

Andersson and Hanifin are VERY similar offensively.

Hanifin clears defensively

Hanifin almost always leads his team in that and Corsi For. He shoots the puck a lot. But it is very often high or wide.

As many have already said, outside of last season where Andersson was clearly playing bad he has always been considered better than Hanifin. It's like comparing Pulock and Dobson. One is a well rounded #2 that plays both ends of the ice, and the other is a #1 OFD.

It's also worth noting that Andersson never played with Tanev, who was consistently a top 3 shutdown defenseman in the league during his time in Calgary. Hanifin played 2/4 seasons with him. Any player who partners with Tanev massively has their defensive numbers skyrocket (with the exception of Weegar who is already similarly good defensively).

So players numbers skyrocket when paired with these other guys instead of Andersson, yet Andersson is the best of them???

 

[DingDongCharlie]

I'd do one of Reilly/Savoie + 1st + 2nd for RA @50%, not doing 2 1st. that's way too steep even for a rival as good as RA.

 

[BigRangy]

I saw the trade and was like “f*** off” not at any price.

But then the package is honestly pretty hard to say no to

I think ultimately I would do it because Andersson would 100% sabotage the oilers if he was traded there

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

To pretend the offensive gap is anything comparable to pulock and dobson is ridiculous.
This is pulock and dobson EV since 2021
View attachment 926316

Hanifin and Andersson have virtually identical EV production over the last 3 years (+this portion of this year). I'm going to hide the names for you so you can guess, but here.
View attachment 926315



They also have virtually identical on ice marksView attachment 926310

Even on the power play it's VERY similar production
View attachment 926308

Although Andersson has the edge in on ice (likely due to PP1 vs PP2 utilization)
View attachment 926309


Andersson and Hanifin are VERY similar offensively.

Hanifin clears defensively

I always find it hilarious when you post images of Evolving Hockey stats as if I didn't introduce the site to you.

I never said the offensive gaps were similar, I compared them stylistically. Hanifin is not an offensive defenseman. He is a puck moving defenseman, and one of the fastest skating defensemen in the league. I admit Pulock is not a perfect comparable though as he is a defensive defenseman with a hard shot. But I just grabbed 2 names off the top of my head too.

Thinking about it more, Bouchard and Ekholm are a better comparable. One is a clear #2 PMD and the other is a middle of the pack #1 OFD.

Using the exact same time period we can see that their EV productions are all relatively similar (the McDrai affect boosts the 2 Oilers players totals up a bit).

It also shows that my point about Hanifin shooting the puck much more often was correct

Oh look Bouchard and Ekholm have very similar on ice marks too. These things tend to happen when you play a lot together, like these 2 groupings.

So players numbers skyrocket when paired with these other guys instead of Andersson, yet Andersson is the best of them???

Your lack of reading ability is showing again. I specifically said "Any player who partners with Tanev massively has their defensive numbers skyrocket."

Using Natural Stattrick you can clearly see that Hanifin's defensive numbers took a massive rise playing with Tanev, vs without. This is just a standard thing with Tanev because he is so reliable defensively.

 

[McShogun99]

Andersson to the Oilers seem to come up every year. He’d be such a great fit on the Oilers but it will never happen.

 

[Figgy44]

Yeah this would be an offer I'd stop and hesitate. 3 mid to late firsts is good, but flames need top 6 C or second paring with top pairing upside D within 1-3 seasons. Oilers pieces aren't guaranteed to be that even if unprotected. It's hard turning down an Oilers lottery ticket, but flames are nearing a point where they need sure things, so likely will do quantity for quality trades, not the other way around.

IMO if we move Andersson, one of the top value pieces Conroy needs in the deal would be a middle 6 C with low end 1C upside or solid second pairing RD with #2 upside. Doesn't have to be younger than Andersson, but probably someone who the Flames can quickly get a solid 5 years out of them at minimum.

It's a good offer. It's mainly optics being the biggest issue.

 

[dgibb10]

I always find it hilarious when you post images of Evolving Hockey stats as if I didn't introduce the site to you.

I never said the offensive gaps were similar, I compared them stylistically. Hanifin is not an offensive defenseman. He is a puck moving defenseman, and one of the fastest skating defensemen in the league. I admit Pulock is not a perfect comparable though as he is a defensive defenseman with a hard shot. But I just grabbed 2 names off the top of my head too.

Thinking about it more, Bouchard and Ekholm are a better comparable. One is a clear #2 PMD and the other is a middle of the pack #1 OFD.

Using the exact same time period we can see that their EV productions are all relatively similar (the McDrai affect boosts the 2 Oilers players totals up a bit).
View attachment 926325
It also shows that my point about Hanifin shooting the puck much more often was correct

Oh look Bouchard and Ekholm have very similar on ice marks too. These things tend to happen when you play a lot together, like these 2 groupings.
View attachment 926330


Your lack of reading ability is showing again. I specifically said "Any player who partners with Tanev massively has their defensive numbers skyrocket."

Using Natural Stattrick you can clearly see that Hanifin's defensive numbers took a massive rise playing with Tanev, vs without. This is just a standard thing with Tanev because he is so reliable defensively.

You seem to be trying to spin the fact that hanifin is better defensively into a negative?

Hanifin is better defensively? We can both very easily agree on that?

I don't think Rasmus Andersson is better offensively, or at least not in any meaningful way. Their offensive results are a spitting image of eachother, both EV and on the PP

If rasmus offensive results are worthy of being a number 1 dman, than Hanifins (virtually identical) offensive results make him that as well.

You keep trying to paint Andersson as a step above offensively, when he isn't.



About Bouchard Ekholm.

A) Yes, Ekholm has been better than Bouchard EV over the last 3 years since he is much better defensively while putting up similar offense EV

The reason people (and not everyone) view Bouchard as better is 3 reasons

1: Age: Bouchard is on the way up being 22,23,24,25 in those seasons, Ekholm is 31,32,33, 34 in those seasons. This does not apply as Hanifin and Andersson are the same age
2: Evan Bouchard is one of the best PP weapons in the NHL. Ekholm does not contribute in this area. Again, since Hanifin and Andersson have similar PP results, this does not apply.
3: Bouchards EV offense is better than Ekholms, even despite year 1 of the sample being his rookie year. Andersson does not have said edge

But looking at the last 3 years, give me Ekholm. Going forward, give me bouchard.

Your lack of reading ability is showing again. I specifically said "Any player who partners with Tanev massively has their defensive numbers skyrocket."

It's not just Tanev tho. He's the big one where guys have WAY better results with him, but guys also have better results with Weegar and other dmen.

There's not many guys who have had Hanifin and Andersson as partner's separately in the same year unfortunately