Dylan Holloway - 43gp 15g 17a +11

[Andrei79]

Edmonton had a masterclass in how to brutally mismanage your roster this summer. Idiotic and unnecessary offer sheets that would never have happened under competent management.

 

[Breakers]

Chess vs checkers as a GM

 

[Kimota]

Holloway is so good...extremely skilled, extremely fast, plays hard. Did he just hate Edmonton? I see a lot of Oilers fans trying to cope by saying he was low on their depth chart...who would be ahead of him aside from McDavid and Drai?? I don't see any other Oilers forwards I'd take over Holloway.

Holloway coming to STL reminds me a lot of Tage Thompson going to Buffalo and tearing it up. We saw the potential in Thompson when he was here, but he was never given the opportunity to show his true value.

He actually wanted to stay with the Oilers and was shocked when they did not match. He signed the offer sheet cause he and his agent literally got no response from the Oilers. He wanted to put pressure on them so they would negotiate. To this day it's mind-boggling that they did not match. And Holloway he was all screwed inside when they didn't match. He was like WTF? Esp. since it wasn't a huge amount.

Really stupid move by the Oilers.

 

[TheNumber4]

He was so obviously a legit NHLer the first game he stepped on the ice. NHL size, speed, motor, and defensive IQ. He had all the tools. His production potential was a bit of a question mark, but shouldn’t have been after his last year with the Oilers showing good chemistry with Draisaitl and showing ability to produce in the playoffs.

I don’t think he would have had PP oppurtunity in Edmomton. The 5 man unit the Oilers have is just too elite and too established. That said, this notion that he wouldn’t have gotten top 6 time in Edmonton this year is just not true. Foegele, McLeod, Kapanen, Podkolzin have all had Top 6 opportunities in Edmonton the last 2 years. Holloway would have got his shot too and likely would have done well with it. My initial reactions to both offersheets was they needed to be matched. Oilers management obviously had different ideas, ideas we won’t see come to fruition until the TDL passes.

 

[SimpleJack]

Wonder just how good the Oilers would be with both he and Broberg still on the roster.

With each passing game they play its looking better and better for STL.

 

[TheNumber4]

Wonder just how good the Oilers would be with both he and Broberg still on the roster.

With each passing game they play its looking better and better for STL.

Oilers are the odds on favourite for the Cup without them. How much better could they have been?

The improvement would only have been incremental. We are comparing the difference between Holloway and Podkolzin (his replacement). And the difference between Broberg playing his off-side and Emberson (his replacement). Plus about 4.58M extra cap space by using these replacements instead of a matched Holloway and Broberg.

While Holloway is obviously the better producer, Podkolzin has been a revelation in Edmonton. At only a $1M per year he’s chipping in some prodiuction while being completely solid, even elite on the defensive end:



So Holloway Vs. Podkolzin + $1M cap space + 3rd round pick isn’t too bad.

On the Broberg front it works out to Broberg vs. Emberson + $3.58M cap space + 2nd round pick.

Broberg wouldn’t have beat Ekholm, Nurse, or Kulak for a spot on the Left Side. His fit in Edmonton would have been playing him on his off side as a 4RHD. Which really isn’t ideal for Broberg or the Oilers. So the comparison is how well is Broberg in the 4RHD role vs. Emberson in that role. While Broberg is the much better player with a much higher potential, Emberson has done well in that role for cheap. I’m not sure if Broberg on his off side is worth 3.58M more than what Emberson is bringing. Broberg on his off side likely still ahead but the difference isn’t as much as you’d think.

The true test of this decision not to match will come at the trade dead line though, what the Oilers do with that 4.58M extra cap space and an extra 2nd + 3rd as assets to trade with, as the result of not matching. If they parlay that into a 4RHD upgrade this team absolutely needs, the idea to not matching becomes a lot more palatable and even sensible in a Cup or Bust year.

 

[Memento]

He actually wanted to stay with the Oilers and was shocked when they did not match. He signed the offer sheet cause he and his agent literally got no response from the Oilers. He wanted to put pressure on them so they would negotiate. To this day it's mind-boggling that they did not match. And Holloway he was all screwed inside when they didn't match. He was like WTF? Esp. since it wasn't a huge amount.

Really stupid move by the Oilers.

I'll take "Shit that never happened" for $1,000, Alex.

Holloway was born in Alberta, true, but he grew up a Calgary Flames fan, not an Oilers fan (and yes, you can look that up). He signed an offer sheet for a significantly higher portion of money than what the Oilers were willing to give him, as was his right as a sports athlete who could suffer a career-ending injury at any time and get nothing but the signing bonus. Broberg? Same thing.

The most the Oilers could've done after the fact was match the offer given by the Blues (you can't go over or under an offer-sheet once it's signed by a player; only match). He signed an offer sheet knowing that it was the highest he'd get, and did it willingly; the Blues didn't kidnap his family and threaten to gun them all down if he didn't sign the contract.

And aside from that, Holloway has never once said - in an interview, to a private source, anywhere at all - that he regrets signing the offer sheet. Never. I don't know where that myth came from, nor do I care: I'm just here to point out that it can't be regarded as anything other than fiction - and I should know because I write fiction.

 

[Kimota]

I'll take "Shit that never happened" for $1,000, Alex.

Holloway was born in Alberta, true, but he grew up a Calgary Flames fan, not an Oilers fan (and yes, you can look that up). He signed an offer sheet for a significantly higher portion of money than what the Oilers were willing to give him, as was his right as a sports athlete who could suffer a career-ending injury at any time and get nothing but the signing bonus. Broberg? Same thing.

The most the Oilers could've done after the fact was match the offer given by the Blues (you can't go over or under an offer-sheet once it's signed by a player; only match). He signed an offer sheet knowing that it was the highest he'd get, and did it willingly; the Blues didn't kidnap his family and threaten to gun them all down if he didn't sign the contract.

And aside from that, Holloway has never once said - in an interview, to a private source, anywhere at all - that he regrets signing the offer sheet. Never. I don't know where that myth came from, nor do I care: I'm just here to point out that it can't be regarded as anything other than fiction - and I should know because I write fiction.

I think you just wrote fiction in your own mind.

Especially the part where in any way shape or form was it a slight on St Louis. Nobody is saying he wasn't happy to join the Blues.

Just that the Oilers kept ignoring him and he was shocked that they didn't match. This is what I read. Whether it was from his agent or himself, I don't remember. I know that it was from a Tweet. And it also said that he fully intented to pursue his career with the Oilers. Guess what, St Louis targeted two Oilers players cause they knew the Oilers were in a bind. That's the story here.

And the fact that he did not grew up as a Oilers fans doesn't matter at all. When you join the NHL, you're just happy to be there. And you become friends with your teamates regardless of where you are.

 

[McFlash97]

The fact Bowman came out and told the media this worked out well for the Oilers is about as incompetent as it gets.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

SKinner was a calculated risk...but Holloway would have the same issue in Edmonton. Skinner isn't playing where he needs to be to be productive and he can't break in because the top 6 is basically set. Holloway definitely would not be getting the minutes and chance he is in the St Louis in Edmonton.


Skinner hasnt been that bad, he isn't scoring, but he is't playing in the top 6 and he isn't as bad defensively as people make out. Also, his contract is over at the end of the year. Skinner wasn't given a real run in the top 6 after October ( when the whole team was struggling).

This is some phenomenal coping.

You take talented players whenever you can get them, and play them where you can play them. You need depth to win in the playoffs, and Holloway would provide the Oilers much better depth at the very least.

The fact Bowman came out and told the media this worked out well for the Oilers is about as incompetent as it gets.

It’s crazy how little help McDavid has gotten from the Oilers’ management. They don’t deserve to have a piece like him on their team.

 

[TheOrganist]

Oilers are the odds on favourite for the Cup without them. How much better could they have been?

The improvement would only have been incremental. We are comparing the difference between Holloway and Podkolzin (his replacement). And the difference between Broberg playing his off-side and Emberson (his replacement). Plus about 4.58M extra cap space by using these replacements instead of a matched Holloway and Broberg.

While Holloway is obviously the better producer, Podkolzin has been a revelation in Edmonton. At only a $1M per year he’s chipping in some prodiuction while being completely solid, even elite on the defensive end:



So Holloway Vs. Podkolzin + $1M cap space + 3rd round pick isn’t too bad.

On the Broberg front it works out to Broberg vs. Emberson + $3.58M cap space + 2nd round pick.

Broberg wouldn’t have beat Ekholm, Nurse, or Kulak for a spot on the Left Side. His fit in Edmonton would have been playing him on his off side as a 4RHD. Which really isn’t ideal for Broberg or the Oilers. So the comparison is how well is Broberg in the 4RHD role vs. Emberson in that role. While Broberg is the much better player with a much higher potential, Emberson has done well in that role for cheap. I’m not sure if Broberg on his off side is worth 3.58M more than what Emberson is bringing. Broberg on his off side likely still ahead but the difference isn’t as much as you’d think.

The true test of this decision not to match will come at the trade dead line though, what the Oilers do with that 4.58M extra cap space and an extra 2nd + 3rd as assets to trade with, as the result of not matching. If they parlay that into a 4RHD upgrade this team absolutely needs, the idea to not matching becomes a lot more palatable and even sensible in a Cup or Bust year.

The point is that it didn't need to be a Cup or bust year. You had two first round picks that Edmonton had invested in for years, drafting & developing...players that could have and should have been part of the next core of young players for Edmonton when you see the talent & ability when utilized properly in a different organization. Again, a lot of coping and justifying in this thread...not all Oiler fans, though. I've read through most of that Holloway/Broberg gripe fest thread on the Oiler boards and many of them recognize the incompetence of Oiler coaching and mngm't to let something like this happen.

 

[Oilslick941611]

This is some phenomenal coping.

You take talented players whenever you can get them, and play them where you can play them. You need depth to win in the playoffs, and Holloway would provide the Oilers much better depth at the very least.

It’s easy to forget that Holloway had 9 points last year.

That’s not exactly a number you make a bet on

 

[soothsayer]

Broberg can't stop a cycle to save his life. He's not the guy Oilers fans should be too upset about. Holloway was always the guy. Letting him go was a horrific mistake but the Oilers galaxy brains. Unforgivable. He's legit.

 

[Memento]

I think you just wrote fiction in your own mind.

Especially the part where in any way shape or form was it a slight on St Louis. Nobody is saying he wasn't happy to join the Blues.

Just that the Oilers kept ignoring him and he was shocked that they didn't match. This is what I read. Whether it was from his agent or himself, I don't remember. I know that it was from a Tweet. And it also said that he fully intented to pursue his career with the Oilers. Guess what, St Louis targeted two Oilers players cause they knew the Oilers were in a bind. That's the story here.

And the fact that he did not grew up as a Oilers fans doesn't matter at all. When you join the NHL, you're just happy to be there. And you become friends with your teamates regardless of where you are.

Okay. Maybe we're starting off on the wrong page. I assumed that you were speaking from an Oilers fan's POV (a lot of them are pissed at both Broberg and Holloway. Mostly Broberg, which I don't understand after they went through Oscar Klefbom's entire journey of a career ending injury.), since a fair number of them have this fantasy that Holloway was upset that St. Louis made him an offer sheet and that he never wanted to sign with the Blues from bullshit pseudoscience like "body language during his press conference" and the like (and no, I'm not lying).

I apologize for going off on you; I just read so much horseshit, and I assumed that you were the same, so I apologize for that.

 

[TheNumber4]

The point is that it didn't need to be a Cup or bust year. You had two first round picks that Edmonton had invested in for years, drafting & developing...players that could have and should have been part of the next core of young players for Edmonton when you see the talent & ability when utilized properly in a different organization. Again, a lot of coping and justifying in this thread...not all Oiler fans, though. I've read through most of that Holloway/Broberg gripe fest thread on the Oiler boards and many of them recognize the incompetence of Oiler coaching and mngm't to let something like this happen.

Like I said in my post. My intitial reaction was to match both. That didn’t happen. So then I broke down exactly what the effects were on the Oilers this year. You call it cope, I call it the reality of the situation. On Holloway he was a good kid that was excited to be an Oiler, would have been great to have around. On Broberg and his overpay, he acted L whiny as an Oiler and I suspect he never wanted to be here, so whatever.

 

[TheOrganist]

Like I said in my post. My intitial reaction was to match both. That didn’t happen. So then I broke down exactly what the effects were on the Oilers this year. You call it cope, I call it the reality of the situation. On Holloway he was a good kid that was excited to be an Oiler, would have been great to have around. On Broberg and his overpay, he acted L whiny as an Oiler and I suspect he never wanted to be here, so whatever.

I wasn’t an expect on the Oilers history with Broberg obviously as a Blues fan before all this went down but Spector had an enlightening article the first time STL played in Edmonton about how poorly he was handled by Jay Woodcroft among others. It was pretty damning. I’m sure hard feelings developed over time by the Broberg camp.

 

[Czechboy]

What makes you say this?

I guess short term, yeah, the Oilers have a better shot at a Cup this year and probably the next couple seasons after. But it's not as if the Blues are trending down, their future looks quite bright, and Holloway is a big part of that.

They'll likely be a perennial playoff team potentially as early as next season, and they could be a serious contender in as early as a few seasons from now. Holloway is only 23, so it's not like he's on the back nine of his career and running out of time. If he sticks with the Blues he'd be in his mid to late 20s by the time the Blues' window is open again.

I'm become a closet blues fan because of their retool. So many good players in the pipe! Plus a lot of potentially promising Czechs. And I like Bro and Hollo too.

 

[TheNumber4]

I wasn’t an expect on the Oilers history with Broberg obviously as a Blues fan before all this went down but Spector had an enlightening article the first time STL played in Edmonton about how poorly he was handled by Jay Woodcroft among others. It was pretty damning. I’m sure hard feelings developed over time by the Broberg camp.

First of all, Spector is universally known as a moron for anyone that comes in contact with his work on a regular basis. Spector says he was mishandled by Woody, and you look at his usage and you’d say yeh maybe. In actuality Broberg sucked that season. Looked like a deer in the headlights that season. Constantly got trucked. Didn’t use his skating talent. Couldn’t read the game well. There was valid reasons why Woody didn’t trust him. And the RIGHT move was always to move Broberg back to the AHL for extra seasoning, he never should have been up to the NHL early despite his and his agents whining. And lo and behold the AHL assignment was exactly what Broberg needed, that’s when he finally started hitting his stride as a player. Taking big minute assignments down there, playing all situations. Finally stretching his legs and using his god given skating talent. Finally with confidence to step up and make plays instead of looking like a timid and scared mouse out there. That “demotion” to the AHL season was needed for him to be the difference maker he was in the playoffs for us. Developmentally, the slow cook process was exactly what was needed for him and it shows in the results.

 

[TheOrganist]

First of all, Spector is universally known as a moron for anyone that comes in contact with his work on a regular basis. Spector says he was mishandled by Woody, and you look at his usage and you’d say yeh maybe. In actuality Broberg sucked that season. Looked like a deer in the headlights that season. Constantly got trucked. Didn’t use his skating talent. Couldn’t read the game well. There was valid reasons why Woody didn’t trust him. And the RIGHT move was always to move Broberg back to the AHL for extra seasoning, he never should have been up to the NHL early despite his and his agents whining. And lo and behold the AHL assignment was exactly what Broberg needed, that’s when he finally started hitting his stride as a player. Taking big minute assignments down there, playing all situations. Finally stretching his legs and using his god given skating talent. Finally with confidence to step up and make plays instead of looking like a timid and scared mouse out there. That “demotion” to the AHL season was needed for him to be the difference maker he was in the playoffs for us. Developmentally, the slow cook process was exactly what was needed for him and it shows in the results.

Fair enough but you kind of make my point for me. Look at much effort went into developing Broberg and then when he was finally ready to blossom you lose him for a middling draft pick. Seems like if the Oilers and Broberg communicated better throughout this process it wouldn’t have come to this. This doesn’t even get into Holloway. I don’t see how this whole situation isn’t viewed as devastating if I was an Oiler fan. I’m not even trying to be a dick about it. If the roles were reversed we would be destroying Armstrong.

 

[TheNumber4]

Fair enough but you kind of make my point for me. Look at much effort went into developing Broberg and then when he was finally ready to blossom you lose him for a middling draft pick. Seems like if the Oilers and Broberg communicated better throughout this process it wouldn’t have come to this. This doesn’t even get into Holloway. I don’t see how this whole situation isn’t viewed as devastating if I was an Oiler fan. I’m not even trying to be a dick about it. If the roles were reversed we would be destroying Armstrong.

You keep arguing with me as if I said we shouldn’t have matched them. On Holloway my thoughts were already fleshed out in an above post that says we should have matched. On Broberg I’m just telling you the real history, and reasons like him being bad combined with him being whiny as reasons why you might not want to match a 4.58M overpay for a Ill-fitting defenceman. You know the Oilers really haven’t mishandled a 1st round defenceman in a long long time. All of Nurse, Klefbom, and Bouchard all went through different development paths that were appropriate for them as the prospects they were and turned out just fine. The difference with Broberg was a whiny agent trying expedite his process for an earlier pay day. In the end, the development process for Broberg once again ended up the correct one. If he was brought up in D+1 and gifted a Top 4 spot he didn’t earn but wanted, who knows how he turns out. Considering his meekness and lack of confidence early on, I suspect it could have gone pretty bad. The Oilers were put in a bad cap position after a Cup finals run and the Blues took advantage. A bit of a perfect storm scenario with a player and his agent actively trying to get off this team in the first place, combined with a Cup finalists’ expected cap issues.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Well, he's also giving up an actual chance at even coming close to winning a Cup, but I get it, money doesn't grow on trees.

Kind of a funny post.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Fair enough but you kind of make my point for me. Look at much effort went into developing Broberg and then when he was finally ready to blossom you lose him for a middling draft pick. Seems like if the Oilers and Broberg communicated better throughout this process it wouldn’t have come to this. This doesn’t even get into Holloway. I don’t see how this whole situation isn’t viewed as devastating if I was an Oiler fan. I’m not even trying to be a dick about it. If the roles were reversed we would be destroying Armstrong.

becasue it boils down to theres no use in crying over spilled milk. Also there are these reasons

1) We are among the top teams in the league
2) We are coming off a SCF appearance
3) Our D numbers this year are fantastic

These two players left the team and theres been no noticable dip in team performance, that makes it awfully easy to overlook it and forget about it, unless every is rubbing it in, but rubbing what in exactly? teams lose players for many reasons. If we didnt pick where we left off last season or we were deficient in what these players bring to the game I could see being angry but again, why cry over spilled milk? what good does that do?

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

It’s easy to forget that Holloway had 9 points last year.

That’s not exactly a number you make a bet on

His contract at his age wasn’t a large bet. And if you’re willing to draft the player, you need to be willing to spend the time to develop him.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Well, he's also giving up an actual chance at even coming close to winning a Cup, but I get it, money doesn't grow on trees.

Anybody mad at them for chasing the money... is just stupid, Can't blame them at all. You sign the paper all day.

His contract at his age wasn’t a large bet. And if you’re willing to draft the player, you need to be willing to spend the time to develop him.

2mil for player that had 9 points isnt a good bet when youre up against the cap. Its great hes having a great year, but given the information you have at the time and where the oilers were on the cup window and cap situation...you walk away from the two offersheets. You dont let other teams set your contract prices for your prospects.

 

[57special]

My team played STL recently. while they won in a narrow victory, the team speed of STL is palpable, partly because of the addition of Broberg and Holloway, who are vg skaters This is not your old, plodding Blues team anymore. If just a couple of their prospects pan out then they are going to have a nice squad in a year or two.