Dustin Schwartz the most lopsided vote in history

[Cloned]

I sub out the goalie coaching with the older kids now because i had the realization that because i dont have the professional experience i wasnt qualified to offer guidance at that level. but its not a coincidence that a goalie like dubnyk who struggled here terribly (and in mtl, nash phx as well) but then got to minnesota and became a rock. it wasnt some magic coaching, they allowed him to limit his movement and play more of a blocking style than an athletic style. Goalies over 6'3 - 6'4 and especially ones that are 6'7 should use minimal movements. They literally cover 75% of the net when in their full butterfly. Coming out 6-10" out of the crease makes that number mid 80s%. It can be harder for big goalies to track the puck because of their size (opposite of a Saros who can peak around the hips and legs of other players while still staying in a reactionary ready position) so they should be top of the crease to let the shots hit them. the more big goalies move the more holes they create, especially down low. If i was koskinens coach i would be working exclusively on rebound reactions and use of the glove hand.

when i mentioned holding his glove out further from his body i would encourage anyone to watch pekke rinne in a shootout. as the player gets closer to the net he brings his glove hand out and almost palm down to prevent any player from going roof on him.

i

Thanks for the input. Did you notice any obvious technical improvements with Smith after a summer of working with his own coach? Or Talbot last year in Minny?

 

[Garbo Man]

I could be wrong cuz I obviously could be misremembering what I've seen over the last 7 years he's been our goalie coach but, it seems (aside from Smith who hired his own goalie coach) all the goalies that Schwartz gets his hands on develop the same issues over time. Fire him asap and hire Roloson.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

25-0..shut this poll down
Schwartz needs to go

 

[CornKicker]

Thanks for the input. Did you notice any obvious technical improvements with Smith after a summer of working with his own coach? Or Talbot last year in Minny?

i didnt watch talbot much so cant comment on that, but for smith he looked be relying more on blocking saves than athletic ones. this is probably due to his age i would imagine the coach teaching him to minimize the unnecessary movements and only rely on your athleticism when you need to. I thought last year Smith looked way more calm in the net than he used to. 2017 smith would come out super aggressive on the original shot and make highlight real saves or attempts on the rebounds. This year he seemed more calm and focused on rebound control instead of rebound reactions. with his age and injury history it makes sense to play lower risk

 

[CornKicker]

I could be wrong cuz I obviously could be misremembering what I've seen over the last 7 years he's been our goalie coach but, it seems (aside from Smith who hired his own goalie coach) all the goalies that Schwartz gets his hands on develop the same issues over time. Fire him asap and hire Roloson.

carter hart spent the covid offseason with schwartz and lost his starting job to brian elliot LOL if thats not enought to make up someone mind i dont know what is lol

 

[Cloned]

i didnt watch talbot much so cant comment on that, but for smith he looked be relying more on blocking saves than athletic ones. this is probably due to his age i would imagine the coach teaching him to minimize the unnecessary movements and only rely on your athleticism when you need to. I thought last year Smith looked way more calm in the net than he used to. 2017 smith would come out super aggressive on the original shot and make highlight real saves or attempts on the rebounds. This year he seemed more calm and focused on rebound control instead of rebound reactions. with his age and injury history it makes sense to play lower risk

Thanks!

 

[Patch101]

i didnt watch talbot much so cant comment on that, but for smith he looked be relying more on blocking saves than athletic ones. this is probably due to his age i would imagine the coach teaching him to minimize the unnecessary movements and only rely on your athleticism when you need to. I thought last year Smith looked way more calm in the net than he used to. 2017 smith would come out super aggressive on the original shot and make highlight real saves or attempts on the rebounds. This year he seemed more calm and focused on rebound control instead of rebound reactions. with his age and injury history it makes sense to play lower risk

I've had a little trouble trying explain how Smith changed and this is perfect.

I was never ever a smith fan, but I have a lot respect for how he improved himself last offseason.

 

[Zerotonine]

[QUOTE="Skar, post: 179921667, member: 274081"]Just my opinion, but I feel like he takes a lot of unnecessary flack for our goalies just not being that great.

Kind of like how everyone wanted Woodcroft fired but he's actually a well liked, decent coach.[/QUOTE]

Then how is it goalies seem to find there game again after leaving edmonton like talbot

 

[McShogun99]

Every goalie has gotten worse under Schwartz. Smith was the exception but he had his own goalie coach last off season. He trains goalies to go down to early leaving the top of the net wide open which is why we get the frying pan, glove hand memes.

 

[48g90a138pts]

They seem to value his scouting and matchup stuff, so promoting him to "Goalie Consultant" or whatever and hiring someone else to actually work with the goalies seems like a really obvious move.

I like this idea best.

I don't think the lack of success is all on Schwartz. It's been no secret that the Oilers have been weak on defense forever. No coincidence that Scrivens and Fasth both had good numbers the previous season and fell down to earth. A good D can mask a mediocre goaltender. Even Talbot's numbers dropped once arriving, then 2016-17 defense really stepped up and played fantastic which resulted in decent numbers for him. The next season Sekera went down and both Larsson and Klefbom had injuries too. So a slight drop made sense for Talbot's numbers. It was a rough year for our defensemen.

Wasn't till Koskinen came in that possibly it got to him knowing management was looking in a different direction, it could have leaned hard on his confidence.

So just firing him into the sun is such a cop out. I like @McDNicks17 idea of keeping him around and bringing in another goalie coach. It sounds like a more respectable and professional direction the team could make.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

carter hart spent the covid offseason with schwartz and lost his starting job to brian elliot LOL if thats not enought to make up someone mind i dont know what is lol

Jesus is this true? How does this man have a job.

 

[fuswald]

I like this idea best.

... I like @McDNicks17 idea of keeping him around and bringing in another goalie coach. It sounds like a more respectable and professional direction the team could make.

Kind of like keeping Mact or Lowe around instead of firing them.

This is an old boys club not a business.

 

[LTIR]

Who do they realistically replace him with if he's fired?

Mike Smith

 

[The Trash Man]

The one vote for keep must be Dustin

 

[AUAIOMRN]

I don't think anyone here knows enough about what our goalie coach does or doesn't do to express an opinion on this fairly.

We don't know if he's the problem. We do know, however, that he isn't the solution.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

I sub out the goalie coaching with the older kids now because i had the realization that because i dont have the professional experience i wasnt qualified to offer guidance at that level. but its not a coincidence that a goalie like dubnyk who struggled here terribly (and in mtl, nash phx as well) but then got to minnesota and became a rock. it wasnt some magic coaching, they allowed him to limit his movement and play more of a blocking style than an athletic style. Goalies over 6'3 - 6'4 and especially ones that are 6'7 should use minimal movements. They literally cover 75% of the net when in their full butterfly. Coming out 6-10" out of the crease makes that number mid 80s%. It can be harder for big goalies to track the puck because of their size (opposite of a Saros who can peak around the hips and legs of other players while still staying in a reactionary ready position) so they should be top of the crease to let the shots hit them. the more big goalies move the more holes they create, especially down low. If i was koskinens coach i would be working exclusively on rebound reactions and use of the glove hand.

when i mentioned holding his glove out further from his body i would encourage anyone to watch pekke rinne in a shootout. as the player gets closer to the net he brings his glove hand out and almost palm down to prevent any player from going roof on him.

i

i didnt watch talbot much so cant comment on that, but for smith he looked be relying more on blocking saves than athletic ones. this is probably due to his age i would imagine the coach teaching him to minimize the unnecessary movements and only rely on your athleticism when you need to. I thought last year Smith looked way more calm in the net than he used to. 2017 smith would come out super aggressive on the original shot and make highlight real saves or attempts on the rebounds. This year he seemed more calm and focused on rebound control instead of rebound reactions. with his age and injury history it makes sense to play lower risk

carter hart spent the covid offseason with schwartz and lost his starting job to brian elliot LOL if thats not enought to make up someone mind i dont know what is lol

 

[29Beast97Mode]

I dont know how much of koskinen is the goalie coach and how much is koskinen. That said he hasn't really improved a single goalie we've had.

 

[ManofSteel55]

We don't know if he's the problem. We do know, however, that he isn't the solution.

Do we? Or do we just not have the goalies to get the job done?

I mean, you're probably right, but I don't think we can criticize a guys job when we don't know what that job entails.

 

[CornKicker]

Do we? Or do we just not have the goalies to get the job done?

I mean, you're probably right, but I don't think we can criticize a guys job when we don't know what that job entails.

even if he isnt the direct problem there is no way the GM hasnt consulted him on acquiring goalies and he sucks at that too.

 

[48g90a138pts]

Kind of like keeping Mact or Lowe around instead of firing them.

This is an old boys club not a business.

It's not anything like that.

But the sarcasm got you a like

 

[Tarus]

The one vote for keep must be Dustin

Nah, just pushing back against Hfboard's tendency to blame support coaches for things.

"Craig Simpson is ruining the Oiler's special teams!"(Mact revealed a year later that he always ran the special teams)
"Chabot is ruining the Oiler's goaltending!" (terrible rosters and Dallas Eakins are what did that, and Chabot went on to work just fine with Dubnyk/Talbot in Minny)
"Woodcroft should be fired for reasons!"(Now people want him to be the next coach due to his work in the minors)

People like to have a scapegoat, and what's easier than a guy behind the scenes?

At this point, both Smith and Koskinen have had good and bad years under Schwartz, and Smith was perfectly fine working with Schwartz most of the year even accounting for the offseason consultant. It's more than likely Koskinen had issues behind the scenes(fitness or something due to covid is highly likely), and/or the rough start destroyed his confidence and it all snowballed from there. No conspiracy theories about the goaltending coach ruining everyone required.

 

[ManofSteel55]

even if he isnt the direct problem there is no way the GM hasnt consulted him on acquiring goalies and he sucks at that too.

Not to try to sound like I am defending him or anything, but since Koskinen, we've went after some pretty decent goalies. Markstrom, who thankfully fell off a cliff right after we would have signed him, and even Kuemper this off season who could be considered a top 5 goalie if he wasn't hurt all the time. I don't think the problem is targeting the wrong goalies. Unless the Dreidger rumours are true, in which case, I agree, as I don't think he is a good goalie.

 

[joestevens29]

For me it's not only the guys that he works with directly through the Oiler organization, but guys he works with outside as well.

The guy has a resume that to me shows he should be the goalie coach of the Oil Kings. And that's fine, he was given his shot as he paid dues. It's time to move on and find someone else to work with our goalies.

 

[joestevens29]

I sub out the goalie coaching with the older kids now because i had the realization that because i dont have the professional experience i wasnt qualified to offer guidance at that level. but its not a coincidence that a goalie like dubnyk who struggled here terribly (and in mtl, nash phx as well) but then got to minnesota and became a rock. it wasnt some magic coaching, they allowed him to limit his movement and play more of a blocking style than an athletic style. Goalies over 6'3 - 6'4 and especially ones that are 6'7 should use minimal movements. They literally cover 75% of the net when in their full butterfly. Coming out 6-10" out of the crease makes that number mid 80s%. It can be harder for big goalies to track the puck because of their size (opposite of a Saros who can peak around the hips and legs of other players while still staying in a reactionary ready position) so they should be top of the crease to let the shots hit them. the more big goalies move the more holes they create, especially down low. If i was koskinens coach i would be working exclusively on rebound reactions and use of the glove hand.

when i mentioned holding his glove out further from his body i would encourage anyone to watch pekke rinne in a shootout. as the player gets closer to the net he brings his glove hand out and almost palm down to prevent any player from going roof on him.

i

Revolutionary technique helped Dubnyk rebound

I mean Dubnyk quite clearly went to a new technique so ya it was kind of magic coaching that was quite rare at the time

 

[The Trash Man]

Nah, just pushing back against Hfboard's tendency to blame support coaches for things.

"Craig Simpson is ruining the Oiler's special teams!"(Mact revealed a year later that he always ran the special teams)
"Chabot is ruining the Oiler's goaltending!" (terrible rosters and Dallas Eakins are what did that, and Chabot went on to work just fine with Dubnyk/Talbot in Minny)
"Woodcroft should be fired for reasons!"(Now people want him to be the next coach due to his work in the minors)

People like to have a scapegoat, and what's easier than a guy behind the scenes?

At this point, both Smith and Koskinen have had good and bad years under Schwartz, and Smith was perfectly fine working with Schwartz most of the year even accounting for the offseason consultant. It's more than likely Koskinen had issues behind the scenes(fitness or something due to covid is highly likely), and/or the rough start destroyed his confidence and it all snowballed from there. No conspiracy theories about the goaltending coach ruining everyone required.

I was only making a funny
I totally respect your opinion