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Dustin Brown - can last season be replicated ?

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kilowatt said:
People surprised by Brown’s production should note that Stevens put him in a first line role, unlike the third-line minutes he was receiving from Sutter.
Click to expand...

I believe this is actually not true. The Majority of Browns minutes under Sutter were paired with Kopitar.Only in the 14-15 season were the majority of Browns shifts not taken with Kopitar. The 16-17 season Browns top two center combo Carter/Kopitar. Browns received adequate PP minutes under Sutter. This narrative that Sutter didn't use Brown is just false.

It's really simple.

Brown at this late age is not being asked to hit everything and expend energy he no longer has doing board work etc. He can spend energy sitting in scoring positions now.

Also to Stevens credit, he didn't try and move Brown around to get other lines going.
 
Last edited:
damacles1156 said:
I believe this is actually not true. The Majority of Browns minutes under Sutter were paired with Kopitar.Only in the 14-15 season were the majority of Browns shifts not taken with Kopitar. The 16-17 season Browns top two center combo Carter/Kopitar. Browns received adequate PP minutes under Sutter. This narrative that Sutter didn't use Brown is just false.

It's really simple.

Brown at this late age is not being asked to hit everything and expend energy he no longer has doing board work etc. He can spend energy sitting in scoring positions now.

Also to Stevens credit, he didn't try and move Brown around to get other lines going.
Click to expand...

Brown's stats for the referenced years (for the TOI with certain players, I included percentages 5% or above--pulled from DobberHockey):

2014-15
13:41 even strength TOI per game
1:31 power play TOI per game

24.31%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - STOLL,JARRET - WILLIAMS,JUSTIN
17.25%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
12.34%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - LEWIS,TREVOR - STOLL,JARRET
6.73%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KING,DWIGHT - STOLL,JARRET
5.82%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KING,DWIGHT - RICHARDS,MIKE
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
30.95%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - STOLL,JARRET - WILLIAMS,JUSTIN
10.11%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - TOFFOLI,TYLER - WILLIAMS,JUSTIN
8.84%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE
5.89%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - CARTER,JEFF - KOPITAR,ANZE
5.89%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
5.26%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - RICHARDS,MIKE - WILLIAMS,JUSTIN
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
2015-16
13:37 even strength TOI per game
1:01 power play TOI per game

12.63%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE - LUCIC,MILAN
10.02%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE - PEARSON,TANNER
8.73%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KING,DWIGHT - LEWIS,TREVOR
8.63%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - LEWIS,TREVOR - SHORE,NICK
7.89%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
22.33%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
13.27%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE
9.06%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - LUCIC,MILAN - TOFFOLI,TYLER
8.74%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KING,DWIGHT - LEWIS,TREVOR
7.44%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - LECAVALIER,VINCENT - LUCIC,MILAN
7.44%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE - PEARSON,TANNER
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
2016-17
13:12 even strength TOI per game
1:30 power play TOI per game

14.9%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - CARTER,JEFF - PEARSON,TANNER
13.86%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
12.73%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - DOWD,NIC - SETOGUCHI,DEVIN
7.28%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - IGINLA,JAROME - KOPITAR,ANZE
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
25.72%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - DOWD,NIC - GABORIK,MARIAN
11.54%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - DOWD,NIC - PEARSON,TANNER
9.38%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - DOWD,NIC - SETOGUCHI,DEVIN
8.17%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE
5.05%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - DOWD,NIC - TOFFOLI,TYLER
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2017-18
15:16 even strength TOI per game
2:43 power play TOI per game

54.18%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - IAFALLO,ALEX - KOPITAR,ANZE
13.74%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE - PEARSON,TANNER
6.8%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KEMPE,ADRIAN - PEARSON,TANNER
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
27.75%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - CARTER,JEFF - KOPITAR,ANZE
15.5%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE - TOFFOLI,TYLER
9.21%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
8.9%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - CAMMALLERI,MICHAEL - KOPITAR,ANZE
8.06%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE
7.75%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - IAFALLO,ALEX - KOPITAR,ANZE
5.97%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - CARTER,JEFF - KOPITAR,ANZE - TOFFOLI,TYLER
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
I think it's pretty clear that Stevens used Brown much more than Sutter did, and Brown was attached to Kopitar's hip at even strength and on the power play--much more so than under Sutter.

Stevens upped Brown's even strength TOI from between 1:35 per game to 2:04 per game. He also upped Brown's power TOI from between 1:12 per game to 1:42 per game--in some cases, more than doubling it.
 
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Chazz Reinhold said:
Brown's stats for the referenced years (for the TOI with certain players, I included percentages 5% or above--pulled from DobberHockey):

2014-15
13:41 even strength TOI per game
1:31 power play TOI per game

24.31%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - STOLL,JARRET - WILLIAMS,JUSTIN
17.25%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
12.34%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - LEWIS,TREVOR - STOLL,JARRET
6.73%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KING,DWIGHT - STOLL,JARRET
5.82%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KING,DWIGHT - RICHARDS,MIKE
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
30.95%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - STOLL,JARRET - WILLIAMS,JUSTIN
10.11%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - TOFFOLI,TYLER - WILLIAMS,JUSTIN
8.84%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE
5.89%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - CARTER,JEFF - KOPITAR,ANZE
5.89%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
5.26%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - RICHARDS,MIKE - WILLIAMS,JUSTIN
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
2015-16
13:37 even strength TOI per game
1:01 power play TOI per game

12.63%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE - LUCIC,MILAN
10.02%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE - PEARSON,TANNER
8.73%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KING,DWIGHT - LEWIS,TREVOR
8.63%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - LEWIS,TREVOR - SHORE,NICK
7.89%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
22.33%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
13.27%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE
9.06%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - LUCIC,MILAN - TOFFOLI,TYLER
8.74%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KING,DWIGHT - LEWIS,TREVOR
7.44%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - LECAVALIER,VINCENT - LUCIC,MILAN
7.44%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE - PEARSON,TANNER
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
2016-17
13:12 even strength TOI per game
1:30 power play TOI per game

14.9%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - CARTER,JEFF - PEARSON,TANNER
13.86%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
12.73%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - DOWD,NIC - SETOGUCHI,DEVIN
7.28%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - IGINLA,JAROME - KOPITAR,ANZE
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
25.72%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - DOWD,NIC - GABORIK,MARIAN
11.54%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - DOWD,NIC - PEARSON,TANNER
9.38%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - DOWD,NIC - SETOGUCHI,DEVIN
8.17%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE
5.05%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - DOWD,NIC - TOFFOLI,TYLER
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
2017-18
15:16 even strength TOI per game
2:43 power play TOI per game

54.18%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - IAFALLO,ALEX - KOPITAR,ANZE
13.74%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE - PEARSON,TANNER
6.8%EVBROWN,DUSTIN - KEMPE,ADRIAN - PEARSON,TANNER
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
27.75%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - CARTER,JEFF - KOPITAR,ANZE
15.5%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE - TOFFOLI,TYLER
9.21%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - GABORIK,MARIAN - KOPITAR,ANZE
8.9%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - CAMMALLERI,MICHAEL - KOPITAR,ANZE
8.06%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - KOPITAR,ANZE
7.75%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - IAFALLO,ALEX - KOPITAR,ANZE
5.97%PPBROWN,DUSTIN - CARTER,JEFF - KOPITAR,ANZE - TOFFOLI,TYLER
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
I think it's pretty clear that Stevens used Brown much more than Sutter did, and Brown was attached to Kopitar's hip at even strength and on the power play--much more so than under Sutter.

Stevens upped Brown's even strength TOI from between 1:35 per game to 2:04 per game. He also upped Brown's power TOI from between 1:12 per game to 1:42 per game--in some cases, more than doubling it.
Click to expand...

Pretty much just what I said.

The narrative that Sutter didn't use brown is false. Brown received third line minutes and a third line role only in one season it appears.

Again to Stevens credit, he is not making Brown waste energy on the walls or hitting. Also Stevens is not bouncing Brown around the lines.
 
Last edited:
damacles1156 said:
Pretty much just what I said.

The narrative that Sutter didn't use brown is false. Brown received third line minutes and a third line role only in one season it appears.

Again to Stevens credit, he is not making Brown waste energy on the walls or hitting. Also Stevens is not bouncing Brown around the lines.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone was arguing that Sutter literally didn't use Brown; obviously Brown still played. Sutter did drop Brown's even strength TOI significantly in NHL terms between 2013-14 and 2016-17. Sutter also dropped Brown's power play TOI significantly in NHL terms between 2014-15 and 2016-17.

Stevens essentially restored Brown's TOI (even strength and power play) to what it was before the 2013-14 season.
 
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Another way to look at Brown's TOI stats (amongst forwards):

2011-12
2nd on the team in even strength TOI per game.
2nd on the team in power play TOI per game.

2012-13
2nd on the team in even strength TOI per game.
1st on the team in power play TOI per game.

2013-14
6th on the team in even strength TOI per game.
6th on the team in power play TOI per game.

2014-15
5th on the team in even strength TOI per game.
6th on the team on power play TOI per game.

2015-16
5th on the team in even strength TOI per game.
8th on the team on power play TOI per game.

2016-17
6th on the team in even strength TOI per game.
7th on the team on power play TOI per game.

2017-18
2nd on the team in even strength TOI per game.
3rd on the team on power play TOI per game.
 
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damacles1156 said:
I believe this is actually not true. The Majority of Browns minutes under Sutter were paired with Kopitar.Only in the 14-15 season were the majority of Browns shifts not taken with Kopitar. The 16-17 season Browns top two center combo Carter/Kopitar. Browns received adequate PP minutes under Sutter. This narrative that Sutter didn't use Brown is just false.

It's really simple.

Brown at this late age is not being asked to hit everything and expend energy he no longer has doing board work etc. He can spend energy sitting in scoring positions now.

Also to Stevens credit, he didn't try and move Brown around to get other lines going.
Click to expand...

Last season, Brown averaged 19:50 TOI/GP, including 2:43 on the powerplay and 1:51 on the penatly kill. In fact, here’s the past seven seasons:

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Year[/TD][TD]TOI/GP[/TD][TD]PP TOI/GP[/TD][TD]SH TOI/GP[/TD][TD]Points[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2017-18[/TD][TD]19:50[/TD][TD]2:43[/TD][TD]1:51[/TD][TD]61[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2016-17[/TD][TD]16:00[/TD][TD]1:30[/TD][TD]1:18[/TD][TD]36[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2015-16[/TD][TD]16:10[/TD][TD]1:01[/TD][TD]1:32[/TD][TD]28[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2014-15[/TD][TD]16:31[/TD][TD]1:31[/TD][TD]1:20[/TD][TD]27[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2013-14[/TD][TD]15:50[/TD][TD]2:08[/TD][TD]0:29[/TD][TD]27[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]2012-13[/TD][TD]19:30[/TD][TD]2:49[/TD][TD]1:17[/TD][TD]29*[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2011-12[/TD][TD]20:10 [/TD][TD] 3:20[/TD][TD] 1:40[/TD][TD] 54[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
Just as an example, his even-strength time on ice in 2014-15 was on par with Jarret Stoll and Dwight King. 2013-14 was similar, but he actually played less at even strength than Dwight King.

Yes, Behind The Net says that he mostly played with Kopitar. But in 15-16, Kopitar’s most common linemate was Lucic, and Lucic’s most common linemates were Kopitar and Toffoli. In fact, Lucic, Brown, Pearson, and Gaborik all have Kopitar as on of their most frequent linemates. Similarly, in 14-15, Brown’s most frequent linemate was Stoll, followed by Justin Williams. They were the Kings’ third line that year.

Your comment about Browns use of energy might well be true, but there’s no denying that Brown scores more points the more he plays, and Sutter hadn’t played him as much as Stevens did this year since 2012-13, the lockout-shortened season, when he was on pace for a 30-goal season.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Might be some chicken-and-egg there as well--did his usage cut back because of injuries and reduced effectiveness killing his confidence, etc. rather than Sutter just going "**** you and your trashcans"
Click to expand...


Sutter did everything he could to knock the confidence right out of him. One example was a road trip where he played with Kopi most of the time and put up points. Next homestand he was put on the 4th line for no reason and when asked about it later, maybe by John Hoven, Sutter jumped down his throat and mumbled some snarky comment.
 
Bandit said:
Everyone "mostly plays with Kopitar" because Kopitar is always on the ****ing ice...
Click to expand...

Ideally, if they are able to roll out a lineup resembling this:

Kovalchuk - Kopitar -Brown
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli
Iafallo - Kempe - Vilardi
Brodzinski/Clifford - Thompson - Lewis

Then Kopitar doesn't have to play ~22 minutes.

And before anybody says it, yes, Thompson is probably going to play until Kempe or Amadio prove they can win a draw.
 
dustin: his stats were fantastic two seasons ago, but somehow they did not materialize in points. he did play well back then, only the production was missing. same as kopitar. last season: both guys exploded. it was a systematic effort by everyone in the locker room and it worked. and i don't see any reason why it should suddenly stop working.
 
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