Post-Game Talk: Ducks 3 - Jets 2

[Flair Hay]

Sorry, I'm suffering from recency bias. Stanley has gotten better as the season has gone in, Demelo worse.

Also, anything Garret posts is self-serving and likely to be tainted with confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance with regards to Stanley

If you've got your opinions on the source, that's fine. I have no doubt your response is neither tainted with confirmation bias nor cognitive dissonance.

Not trying to change anyone's mind, just sharing the data from this season because you asked who I was referring to. You said we need to work on better controlled exits... well, there may be a solution if you're willing to hear it

 

[Buffdog]

True, there's likely a lot of little details that the players are missing in order to improve the breakouts. That pass is likely there 90 times out of a hundred, just hate to see it with a minute or so left in a time game.

Yeah, I'm honestly not sure what the play is there

Clearly it wasn't up the middle lol

But that Ducks player did a great job of closing distance and sealing off the wall so I don't think that was an option either

Maybe a high flip through the middle into the neutral zone was safest, or switching it to the weak side

 

[Adam da bomb]

Yeah, I'm honestly not sure what the play is there

Clearly it wasn't up the middle lol

But that Ducks player did a great job of closing distance and sealing off the wall so I don't think that was an option either

Maybe a high flip through the middle into the neutral zone was safest, or switching it to the weak side

The smart play would have been Fleury turning around and blasting down the other side instead of forcing it up the congested side.

 

[Buffdog]

If you've got your opinions on the source, that's fine. I have no doubt your response is neither tainted with confirmation bias nor cognitive dissonance.

Not trying to change anyone's mind, just sharing the data from this season because you asked who I was referring to. You said we need to work on better controlled exits... well, there may be a solution if you're willing to hear it

I'd be curious to see the stats on zone exits when Stanley and Heinola are paired together. Those are the games where I really notice him doing well at it

I know he struggles away from Heinola, but I did t realize it was that bad to be honest

Edit: id also Ile to see the zone exit stats since they've started struggling. That's when I've noticed Demelo in a bad way

 

[winnipegger]

Go ahead and play .500 hockey until April. I don't give a single shit about how they play in December. Barring an epic collapse they will make the playoffs. Losing on the first round is unacceptable and that is when the knives should come out. Right now people need to take a step back and realize that starting the season 15 - 1 was very lucky and their record now is probably indicative of the objective strength of the team.

 

[Flair Hay]

I'd be curious to see the stats on zone exits when Stanley and Heinola are paired together. Those are the games where I really notice him doing well at it

I know he struggles away from Heinola, but I did t realize it was that bad to be honest

Ville has been far from perfect but this is obviously a strength of his

 

[Buffdog]

Ville has been far from perfect but this is obviously a strength of his

If I had to guess as to why I *think* Stanley does better with heinola, it's because I think heinola does a better job of getting Stanley the puck when he has time and space to ake a play

There was one instance last night where heinola had nothing up his side, so he went d to d to Stanley who had all kinds of time to stretch it to the winger at centre who defelcted it in to the o zone. Stanley wasn't under any duress at all

 

[Flair Hay]

If I had to guess as to why I *think* Stanley does better with heinola, it's because I think heinola does a better job of getting Stanley the puck when he has time and space to ake a play

There was one instance last night where heinola had nothing up his side, so he went d to d to Stanley who had all kinds of time to stretch it to the winger at centre who defelcted it in to the o zone. Stanley wasn't under any duress at all

I can agree with that for sure

I think there is a good chance Ville can help in this regard whoever he plays with. But his career and NHL numbers are still in their infancy so it's too early to say that

 

[Gm0ney]

I don't disagree with the sentiment

But I don't think the Jets qualify as an example for the idea as an example of that this season (at least), because their eggs are spread into multiple baskets

They lead the league in goals scored and in PP. Two of their lines rank in the top 20 in terms of goal differential (as you posted earlier)

They need upgrades on D (Samberg returning will help). The more I watch them, the more apparent it becomes that the biggest hole is at 1RD and that's not an easy one to fill

Recently the Jets have been playing like it's 2020 - getting outplayed at 5v5 but solid goaltending and powerplay are enough to win most nights.

Earlier in the year, the Jets were playing a lot better. It wasn't just the puck luck. They were playing well and with a lot of confidence. You could feel it as a fan watching games - even when down they weren't out. Up heading into the third? Relax, we got this.

Now it's clench-time late against two of the worst teams in the league. Not to mention being outplayed for long stretches early in the game. What is with taking, what, 5 or 6 shots in the first half of a game? They lost their mojo down in Florida in mid-November and it looks to me like it's getting worse. Aside from the Boston game, have the Jets had a convincing win (or even a moral-victory loss) this month?

 

[Crocket]

Heinola has been decent, you can tell they are load managing. His skating isn't 100 yet. His IQ is there though. Makes good plays, can make stretch passes, close gaps. I'm glad Coghlan cleared. I think they had to waive him because Chib is injured and can't be sent back when injured?

 

[Buffdog]

Recently the Jets have been playing like it's 2020 - getting outplayed at 5v5 but solid goaltending and powerplay are enough to win most nights.

Earlier in the year, the Jets were playing a lot better. It wasn't just the puck luck. They were playing well and with a lot of confidence. You could feel it as a fan watching games - even when down they weren't out. Up heading into the third? Relax, we got this.

Now it's clench-time late against two of the worst teams in the league. Not to mention being outplayed for long stretches early in the game. What is with taking, what, 5 or 6 shots in the first half of a game? They lost their mojo down in Florida in mid-November and it looks to me like it's getting worse. Aside from the Boston game, have the Jets had a convincing win (or even a moral-victory loss) this month?

I'd hesitate to use that Florida game as the start of the decline because they turned around and come home and beat them decisively a few days later, followed up by a dominant win vs the Pens in Pitt

To me, the slide started that next game vs Nashville the next night

I don't think it's a coincidence that their poor play correlated with the schedule/travel. Even last night (2nd half of a west coast back to back) was a trap, but they shouldn't have been THAT bad for the first 50 minutes.

I tend to agree with posters on here about the Jets not being set up for playoff success, but not for the same reasons. I don't think it's personel or deployment as much as it is their style of play. As you mentionned, they're successful when they're playing up tempo, fast, skilled hockey. The playoffs are anything but that

In April and May, everyone is dinged up and drained. The ice is usually soft and shitty, which makes skilled play more difficult

Tl/DR, they need to learn how to be successful grinding games when they aren't fresh or don't have their A Game

 

[buggs]

A good goalie can mask bad forwards

In Edmonton, good forwards mask bad goaltending

When you construct a team, you can't be strong everywhere (especially when you're in the least desirable market in the league)

Would you like to trade Helle for a 3M goalie and upgrade the forwards with the difference in cap money?

It wonudn't be long and people wpuld be bitching about the goaltending

I think you're ascribing thoughts to me that I don't actually have.

To be clear: no, I wouldn't trade Helle for anything short of another superstar. In doing so though we'd simply create another hole. I don't fault Comrie for his losses this year but I assuredly do not want him as the starter.

My contention is that Helle has allowed management to not see the forest for the trees. They've been seemingly complacent about addressing other team needs because Helle has been able to make the team look better than I think it actually is. And no, I'm not discounting the Winnipeg factor either in that many players simply won't come here. Perhaps management has tried and failed; we'll never know.

 

[gojetsgo]

 

[Buffdog]

I think you're ascribing thoughts to me that I don't actually have.

To be clear: no, I wouldn't trade Helle for anything short of another superstar. In doing so though we'd simply create another hole. I don't fault Comrie for his losses this year but I assuredly do not want him as the starter.

My contention is that Helle has allowed management to not see the forest for the trees. They've been seemingly complacent about addressing other team needs because Helle has been able to make the team look better than I think it actually is. And no, I'm not discounting the Winnipeg factor either in that many players simply won't come here. Perhaps management has tried and failed; we'll never know.

Sorry if I put words in your mouth

I'm not as hard on management because I really think they've built something. The forward group is very solid, if unspectacular, but also somewhat innovative. There isn't another line in the league like Lowry's that can take the types of matchups it does and win them regularly. It opens up the Names line to dominate vs lesser competition, and it's done a good job at that for stretches

The big issue to me is on D, but I don't see Stanley as the major concern. Really, they needed to somehow find a 1RD to pair with JoMo. Demelo has been OK at times, but he's struggled there this season.

Those guys don't grow on trees though. You end up with one either by drafting him, trading for a reclamation, or signing one in UFA (which is where Chevy is at a disadvantage)

 

[KingBogo]

I think you're ascribing thoughts to me that I don't actually have.

To be clear: no, I wouldn't trade Helle for anything short of another superstar. In doing so though we'd simply create another hole. I don't fault Comrie for his losses this year but I assuredly do not want him as the starter.

My contention is that Helle has allowed management to not see the forest for the trees. They've been seemingly complacent about addressing other team needs because Helle has been able to make the team look better than I think it actually is. And no, I'm not discounting the Winnipeg factor either in that many players simply won't come here. Perhaps management has tried and failed; we'll never know.

We need a #2 center, but they are not easy to obtain and we a top 4 RHD, again not easy to obtain. Hopefully we have the answers to both of those positions already in house. Other than that we are a pretty balanced team that could use a little more rest and home cooking.

 

[LowLefty]

If I had to guess as to why I *think* Stanley does better with heinola, it's because I think heinola does a better job of getting Stanley the puck when he has time and space to ake a play

There was one instance last night where heinola had nothing up his side, so he went d to d to Stanley who had all kinds of time to stretch it to the winger at centre who defelcted it in to the o zone. Stanley wasn't under any duress at all

Ville is getting Stan the puck? I'm sure it happens here and there but there is no consistency.
The question I'd ask is how is Ville getting the puck? He's not winning any battles out there.
What I see is Stan doing a lot of the heavy lifting and is usually the one who is passing it off to Ville - not that Stan wins all his battles.

If there was any success with this pair, it likely came from Ville being unmolested most of the time - he's not engaged so is usually open.
He gets to show us his great exit passes when someone gives him the puck - I notice most of those great passes come during line changes where Stan will usually pass off to Ville to give him that opportunity - and then they are both usually heading for the bench.

How these two were ever able to generate decent numbers as a pair, is a mystery to me.

One thing I am pretty sure of is that this is a trial by fire for both - setting up Ville on his off wing and expecting greatness - or - asking Stan to play with a guy who is playing his off wing and struggles defending.
Stan takes most of the heat though - how is Ville the wonder supposed to be great on his off wing playing with Stan? Actually, you can look at this from both angles.

Hope it gets sorted out soon -

 

[KingBogo]

Nice that we were able to hold onto our depth. Chibby showed well and will be back at some point.

 

[bustamente]

While Pionk has played better this year the Jets should be wary of giving him a long term big ticket. DeMelo got a contract that his play is not supporting and we don't need two d men playing poorly for years to come.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Ville is getting Stan the puck? I'm sure it happens here and there but there is no consistency.
The question I'd ask is how is Ville getting the puck? He's not winning any battles out there.
What I see is Stan doing a lot of the heavy lifting and is usually the one who is passing it off to Ville - not that Stan wins all his battles.

If there was any success with this pair, it likely came from Ville being unmolested most of the time - he's not engaged so is usually open.
He gets to show us his great exit passes when someone gives him the puck - I notice most of those great passes come during line changes where Stan will usually pass off to Ville to give him that opportunity - and then they are both usually heading for the bench.

How these two were ever able to generate decent numbers as a pair, is a mystery to me.

One thing I am pretty sure of is that this is a trial by fire for both - setting up Ville on his off wing and expecting greatness - or - asking Stan to play with a guy who is playing his off wing and struggles defending.
Stan takes most of the heat though - how is Ville the wonder supposed to be great on his off wing playing with Stan? Actually, you can look at this from both angles.

Hope it gets sorted out soon -

IDK. You're watching the games more closely than I'm usually able to these days, but in the ones I've seen them do well in I'd say that they're starting to blend their skillsets a bit -- Stan taking on more of the knocking pucks loose and physical play on the boards and behind the net and being able to find an outlet in Ville who can then make an exit pass or play it up ice, which is often where Stan can struggle, esp under pressure. I also wonder if Heinola's positional nous means clearer paths and signals for Stan at times -- and, of course, he's the senior partner in the pairing.

There's also been plenty of examples of Ville covering back for Stan as he pinches and retrieving pucks to chip over to Stan with more time and space so he isn't panicking with the puck under pressure as he can do -- again, a useful complementary play between partners. We see versions of it with Samberg and Pionk and we saw it with JMo and Peak DeMelo also and with Samberg and Schmidt last season, who were terrific together for long stretches before being abandoned before the POs.

Heinola should get quicker and stronger as he gets up to pace from a longterm injury that affects pivots, stability in a board battle, first stride and so on -- if he doesn't, that's an issue for sure, and likely Heinola is moved on, but I think he's overall a better complement to Stan than Fleury, who has a similar profile to Stan, with better mobility.

Hopefully we're seeing learning curve where these two can start to play well off each other as a solid all-situations 3rd pairing with some special teams potential, which would be a nice win for the team going forward.

 

[bustamente]

The Jets have 4 UFA forwards in the coming off season, it's possible that all could be gone next year, I see no scenario where they all re sign. A I and Nik are probably moving on, not sure about Apples and Vladdy so that leaves 2 spots open and I think Chibby has one spot pretty well spoken for.

 

[bustamente]

I would really like to see a 2C with term take the 2nd spot, if it takes some draft capital and a prospect or two so be it. I want no part of a rental of any kind this year

 

[johnnyonthspot]

You aren't worried that we've been playing 22% of the season now consecutively 30th overall in five on five hockey? How is that not a worry?

That explains a lot. I have been very concerned about their 5 v5 play , especially when teams like Anaheim and San Jose look better at 5 v5 than the Jets

 

[Jets 31]

Damn , Chibby deserves to stay up, sit Barron for a few games.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

I would really like to see a 2C with term take the 2nd spot, if it takes some draft capital and a prospect or two so be it. I want no part of a rental of any kind this year

I thought they had that in PLD and we know how that turned out. It appears unless they draft and develop that centre that it will only happen with rentals.
One of the sportshows mentioned Dylan Cozens , who I would like to see come over here but at what price?

 

[bustamente]

I thought they had that in PLD and we know how that turned out. It appears unless they draft and develop that centre that it will only happen with rentals.
One of the sportshows mentioned Dylan Cozens , who I would like to see come over here but at what price?

I thought PLD was the guy too, as for Cozens there will be a significant cost involved. I still think we can trade for a 2C with term as we get closer to the deadline and teams drop out of the playoff race. I'm done with rentals