Dubas' Timeline

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Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
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I don't want to see Crosby play for another team, but the objective truth IMO is that the sooner Crosby leaves, the better it is for the team to actually make the changes it needs.

I think the best case scenario for the Penguins is Crosby re-signs for a 1 year deal, plays at the Olympics in 2026 and he and Malkin retire together after the 2026 season. But it sounds like Crosby's extension is going to be in the 3 year range, which just complicates things.

I also think it makes it more likely Malkin doesn't retire and is retained after the 2026 off-season, which is another thing I don't particularly want to see happen.

The one thing I would say about this from a traditional draft and develop, build around high picks model - we've seen a lot of teams go through prolonged misery because they didn't have enough around their high picks.

And right now the Pens looks like they'd offer very thin insulation to a new kid without Sid.

Hopefully, a prolonged Crosby exit can prevent that. Build up a cadre of young players who have some value as rentals, or who can offer help and hope to a new franchise player before they get there.

Ultimately it's the same timeline either way - just this would be more fun to watch and maybe it goes right.

They keep on saying they are going to rebuild and be competitive with the guys in the room.

I think the issue is everyone knows if we rebuild the guys in the room aren't going to be here.

I'm reading his words and I think stuff like "we're not going for quick fix FA guys, we would if we were closer to being a contender but we're not" (to paraphrase) is pretty direct on where they are in terms of being competitive.

And the stuff about it not being a strip down to the studs but otherwise trying everything they can to get assets says where they are. It's a rebuild. Or a reload.

And apart from Sid, which is allegedly the safest of safe deals on extending, there's nobody in the room where the Pens don't control their future.
 
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Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
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last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
I'm reading his words and I think stuff like "we're not going for quick fix FA guys, we would if we were closer to being a contender but we're not" (to paraphrase) is pretty direct on where they are in terms of being competitive.

And the stuff about it not being a strip down to the studs but otherwise trying everything they can to get assets says where they are. It's a rebuild. Or a reload.

And apart from Sid, which is allegedly the safest of safe deals on extending, there's nobody in the room where the Pens don't control their future.

But, NYR came out and said it.

As you said. There is no clarity from management what this is. Over the last 12 months we've been told Dubas won't bet against the core, that the Guentzel move was made so we can build up our base to move players for young players, and now we are quote on quote not focused on being a fringe playoff team.

There is no messaging about what this team is. It's a murky middle.


"
As a member of the Blueshirt Faithful, we consider you a part of the New York Rangers family, and always want to ensure we share important news about the organization directly with you. Today, we want to talk to you about the future.

As you know, since the 2005-06 season, we have been a highly competitive team. We have played 129 playoff games, won the Presidents' Trophy, reached the Conference Finals three times, as well as the Stanley Cup Final. While we're proud of all those accomplishments - we didn't reach our ultimate goal of bringing the Stanley Cup back to New York.

So as we do every season, we have been continuously evaluating our team, looking for areas that can be improved to enhance our chances of winning. We began the process of reshaping our team this past summer, when we traded for assets that we believe will help us in the years to come. As we approach the trade deadline later this month and into the summer, we will be focused on adding young, competitive players that combine speed, skill and character. This may mean we lose some familiar faces, guys we all care about and respect. While this is part of the game, it's never easy. Our promise to you is that our plans will be guided by our singular commitment: ensuring we are building the foundation for our next Stanley Cup contender.
There are no fans like Rangers fans. You are passionate, loyal and true. You fill The Garden every night, and we always know there will be a strong showing from RangersTown in every building across the League. We do not take your support for granted. We appreciate that you have always stood by us, and we ask you to remain by our side as we undertake this exciting new chapter filled with promise and change.

We will keep you informed as this process takes shape. Thank you for the incredible loyalty, pride and respect you show to the New York Rangers, each and every day."

Big difference.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,737
25,539
But, NYR came out and said it.

As you said. There is no clarity from management what this is. Over the last 12 months we've been told Dubas won't bet against the core, that the Guentzel move was made so we can build up our base to move players for young players, and now we are quote on quote not focused on being a fringe playoff team.

There is no messaging about what this team is. It's a murky middle.

I think it's very clear what Dubas' moves are, and that this is more pissing and moaning for the sake of it.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,737
25,539
Jesse Marshall. Noted pisser and moaner for the sake of it.

Being in situations with a lot of people complaining brings out the complainer, and when that happens, it becomes part of the complaining.

Which is why I very rarely post here and thank you for reminding me of that with commendable alacrity.
 

Turin

Erik Karlsson is good
Feb 27, 2018
23,428
27,429
The one thing I would say about this from a traditional draft and develop, build around high picks model - we've seen a lot of teams go through prolonged misery because they didn't have enough around their high picks.

And right now the Pens looks like they'd offer very thin insulation to a new kid without Sid.

Hopefully, a prolonged Crosby exit can prevent that. Build up a cadre of young players who have some value as rentals, or who can offer help and hope to a new franchise player before they get there.

Ultimately it's the same timeline either way - just this would be more fun to watch and maybe it goes right.



I'm reading his words and I think stuff like "we're not going for quick fix FA guys, we would if we were closer to being a contender but we're not" (to paraphrase) is pretty direct on where they are in terms of being competitive.

And the stuff about it not being a strip down to the studs but otherwise trying everything they can to get assets says where they are. It's a rebuild. Or a reload.

And apart from Sid, which is allegedly the safest of safe deals on extending, there's nobody in the room where the Pens don't control their future.
I can’t for the life of me understand why people think it’s a good idea to not have somebody like Crosby around if the Pens were to bottom out. In Sids first season they still had Lemieux, Recchi, Gonchar etc. He would be the first to tell you that veteran support was critical.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,732
19,300
Pittsburgh
If the pissign and moaningbother people then just post funny shit, shoot the shit, shit post? :dunno:
RWYvIlt.gif
 

Nakawick

Minty Fresh
Apr 5, 2010
11,414
2,915
The Range
Dubas has stated that he wants the Pens to be able to contend again while Crosby is with the team.

What year do you suppose he's targeting, how effective do you think Crosby will be at that time, and given the current state of our prospect pool what sort of quality/quantity do you think he'll have to add to not only compensate for the deterioration of our stars, but dramatically improve the team? Are multiple 2nd rounders and a couple mid/top 10 1sts going to bridge that gap in a few years time?
With a PP operating at league average they would have made the playoffs last year. They really only have this year,., maybe one more and they will simply be too old.
 
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Mr. T

Registered User
Feb 15, 2003
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Looks like Landon DuPont will be the #1 pick in '27. He owes the Pens for employing his dad with his dumbass name all those years ago. Seriously, why would an adult choose to go by Micki?
 

DesertedPenguin

Registered User
Mar 11, 2007
7,191
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Realistically, I think they understand internally that they'll miss the playoffs this year and likely get a top 10 pick. I think the idea is to be competitive again next year (2025-26) during Malkin's final year. But they won't be a true Cup contender until 2026-27 and 2027-28, which would be Letang's final two years and potentially Crosby's final two years.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,737
25,539
I can’t for the life of me understand why people think it’s a good idea to not have somebody like Crosby around if the Pens were to bottom out. In Sids first season they still had Lemieux, Recchi, Gonchar etc. He would be the first to tell you that veteran support was critical.

Because right now it seems impossible to finish in the bottom five with Sid here. For people to bottom out that bad, Sid is an impassable barrier.

Which I get. But I'm wary of bottoming out that bad. I do believe a team does need the elite talent that comes from that position but it's very easy to spend seasons in the abyss. Ideally a team is bad for a very short and controlled period of time. A gradual decline with Sid might be the best way to do that (insofar as this sort of thing is controllable)
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,985
29,391
Because right now it seems impossible to finish in the bottom five with Sid here. For people to bottom out that bad, Sid is an impassable barrier.

Which I get. But I'm wary of bottoming out that bad. I do believe a team does need the elite talent that comes from that position but it's very easy to spend seasons in the abyss. Ideally a team is bad for a very short and controlled period of time. A gradual decline with Sid might be the best way to do that (insofar as this sort of thing is controllable)

They need to get to the point again where they have some Expendable Youth.
 
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Turin

Erik Karlsson is good
Feb 27, 2018
23,428
27,429
Because right now it seems impossible to finish in the bottom five with Sid here. For people to bottom out that bad, Sid is an impassable barrier.

Which I get. But I'm wary of bottoming out that bad. I do believe a team does need the elite talent that comes from that position but it's very easy to spend seasons in the abyss. Ideally a team is bad for a very short and controlled period of time. A gradual decline with Sid might be the best way to do that (insofar as this sort of thing is controllable)
The Pens were a bad two weeks from bottoming out that bad with Sid being over a ppg this season. It’s definitely doable..
 
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ChaosAgent

Registered User
May 8, 2018
18,165
12,367
Realistically, I think they understand internally that they'll miss the playoffs this year and likely get a top 10 pick. I think the idea is to be competitive again next year (2025-26) during Malkin's final year. But they won't be a true Cup contender until 2026-27 and 2027-28, which would be Letang's final two years and potentially Crosby's final two years.

Realistically, they won't be a contender for any of this.
But I don't see it getting as bad as many others here think. The core will decline but the supporting cast will get better. The Powerplay will improve because it will be less of an honorific entitlement and more of an emphasis on team play. Sully has depressed the ceiling recently but will raise the floor.

At the same time, while the young talent pipeline is much better now than it was 14 months ago, it is still terrible.

I think we'll be different versions of playoff bubble to downright bad to making the playoffs once or twice.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
56,044
47,479
Without being ruthless regarding the supporting cast, I think there is no way this will actually happen and this is just the GM lying as per usual.
Exactly. You don't seriously intend to contend and then go out and make the moves Dubas has made. This is just GM-speak to appease the fanbase and maybe even Crosby.

The reality is none of what he's done (minus the Karlsson acquisition) suggests that they're building to be a winner while Sid's still around.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,732
19,300
Pittsburgh
Because right now it seems impossible to finish in the bottom five with Sid here. For people to bottom out that bad, Sid is an impassable barrier.

Which I get. But I'm wary of bottoming out that bad. I do believe a team does need the elite talent that comes from that position but it's very easy to spend seasons in the abyss. Ideally a team is bad for a very short and controlled period of time. A gradual decline with Sid might be the best way to do that (insofar as this sort of thing is controllable)
Remember they had Jake for half a season or better and they could have finished 7OA had they not made the push. With current status quo they can easily match that if Dubas doesn't pick up a top six winger.
 
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pistolpete11

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
11,611
10,437
The only way to still compete while Sid is here was to go bold on getting star players and hoping you can fill out the rest with what prospects you do have. The Karlsson move was off to a good start, but then we got a whole lot Graves, Jarrys, Hayes, Ellers, Accairis, Buntings, Grzy, etc. Not necessarily anything against some of these guys individually and you probably need a few of them. It's just a lot of cap that could have been better spent on difference makers and letting the DOCs, Puusy's, Pono's, POJ's, etc. figuring it out.

Realistically, though, it was over when they extended Sullivan 2 years before his deal was up and hadn't won a playoff round in 4 years or whatever it was at the time. That was the signal they were going to just ride this thing out.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,737
25,539
The only way to still compete while Sid is here was to go bold on getting star players and hoping you can fill out the rest with what prospects you do have. The Karlsson move was off to a good start, but then we got a whole lot Graves, Jarrys, Hayes, Ellers, Accairis, Buntings, Grzy, etc.

Star players takes assets, the Pens don't have many, this is what you get while trying to fill out a roster without spending trade assets.

Hence the position Dubas is taking today. He can't make it happen tomorrow. Doesn't have the assets or cap space. What he can try to do is find a lot of assets quickly and hope that changes things. Hence taking on Hayes, taking on a few one year guys who can maybe be flipped if things are going that way, and so on, and hoping it works out in a couple years.
 
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