Speculation: Drysdale's value been proved still good? Why Barron's value perceived as so low according to a lot of people?

[Ledge And Dairy]

Well one is a regular top 4 NHLer and the other one hasn't earned an NHL spot on arguably the weakest d-core in the league, and he loses waiver exemption this summer

 

[BLONG7]

Saw Drysdale play once last year.................he was a -6 in that game.
Perspective sometimes.................

 

[Fatass]

I really don't understand the general contempt towards Justin Barron.

He's a 22 year old 6'2" 200 pds RHD that skates well and have a good shot.

He's had stretches of good games followed by stretches of bad ones, just like a lot of youngsters his age do.

With him it's more a matter of confidence than tools, because he has all the tools to have a long NHL career.

But everybody seems to write him down, even if he already have close to a 100 games at just 22.

At the beginning of last season, he was forming the Habs best defensemen pair with Guhle. Both being under 23 yo.

Then he kind of lost confidence.

He was then sent to Laval, but it was more a case of MTL having tons of young guys at the blue line and them alternating the ones being hot at a given moment.

If MTL didn't have that much alternatives in their system, Barron would've stayed in the NHL. Because he has the tools to be an NHL regular.

Is he perfect?

No, he's not that physical nor has he the sharper defensive awareness.

But at the end of the day, he reminds me of Petry: a tall, athletic and RHS defenseman with a little less than a 1000 games, and a few 40 pts seasons, in the NHL.

So AFAIC, Barron's value is like Drysdale's = he's +/- worth his former draft pick: a late 1st (Gauthier, like Drysdale, was worth an early first at the time of the trade).

Both being 2020 draft, both still unproven but valuable because of their combination of position/shooting side/talent.

So, contrary to a lot of HFboarders, I don't buy the "Barron's worth shit" narrative.

As NHL GMs aren't HFboarders... young Centers/RHD, particularly big ones drafted in the 1st rd, are assets that tend to keep their value in the NHL.

Habs are creating competition for spots. The cream will rise to the top. Barron isn’t cream. That’s how rebuilding clubs get better.

 

[TS Quint]

Barron is soooo good but he isn't worth playing time over a waiver wire guy and Savard. When the Habs prioritize guys with zero upside to winning hockey and aren't good over Barron you might want to be asking Habs management these questions.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

LMAO what?

In the past three years Drysdale has 68 GF and 111 GA while on the ice at 5v5 while getting good deployment (O-zone starts). He made every single player he played with on the Ducks worse with him than without him. He's terrible. Doesn't score at a good rate and makes every line he plays against look like McDavid and Draisaitl.

Dude did Drysdale run over your dog or something? Like I don't know what you are expecting from a guy who is 21 and under, but elite defense on an awful team should not be it. Like look at Guhle for example over the last 2 seasons (114 games) he's been on the ice for 78 GF and 104 GA at 5v5.

 

[Scintillating10]

We'll just get him for free on waivers dont need to pay anything to Montreal

I hope Montreal protects him another year. Lose Kovaevic instead.

 

[jfhabs]

I appreciate the Lundqvist comp.
But different circumstances: « Around three days ago, it was revealed that Lundkvist had requested a trade from the New York Rangers, and had informed the team he wouldn't be attending training camp ».

Lets say Barron does he same, what do you expect back? A first?

How is/was Lundqvist any better than Barron?
Late first are very overrated around here come draft time.

 

[Dough72]

Wild how most of us are coming in here to condemn OP for the comparison.

Can't paint us all the same.

don't join the mob trashing your own fanbase the mob on here is not worth listening to. For proof just look at this thread. OP made a completely reasonable post, never said anything about Baron being as valuable as Drysdale, yet the mob still went all "derr Habs fans". Leafs fans have to put up with the same nonsense. So next time your fanbase gets trashed just remember this thread. Or the fact that your fanbase has actually played the sport.

 

[jfhabs]

Dude did Drysdale run over your dog or something? Like I don't know what you are expecting from a guy who is 21 and under, but elite defense on an awful team should not be it. Like look at Guhle for example over the last 2 seasons (114 games) he's been on the ice for 78 GF and 104 GA at 5v5.

What's the deployment and quality of competition? I don't know for Drysdale , but Guhle is facing the opposing team best players.

 

[JRichard]

Saw Drysdale play once last year.................he was a -6 in that game.
Perspective sometimes.................

Goalies were .706 and .692 that night.
Montreal of all people scored 9 despite being outshot.
i would call that game an outlier
Drysdale played well in next game they won 4-1 vs NYR…

 

[Djp]

They are they just want everyone else to be happy about them as well.

What psychological disorder is thst?

 

[CanadienShark]

don't join the mob trashing your own fanbase the mob on here is not worth listening to. For proof just look at this thread. OP made a completely reasonable post, never said anything about Baron being as valuable as Drysdale, yet the mob still went all "derr Habs fans". Leafs fans have to put up with the same nonsense. So next time your fanbase gets trashed just remember this thread. Or the fact that your fanbase has actually played the sport.

I'm proud to support the Habs. I also recognize why the "mob" (your words, not mine) dislike Habs fans and paint us all with the same brush. It's genuinely annoying to see the same few posters bombard the main boards with out of touch with reality comparisons and trade proposals.

 

[tbcwpg]

I'm proud to support the Habs. I also recognize why the "mob" (your words, not mine) dislike Habs fans and paint us all with the same brush. It's genuinely annoying to see the same few posters bombard the main boards with out of touch with reality comparisons and trade proposals.

The Montreal fanbase includes some of the most knowledgeable hockey people I've ever spoken to but there's also plenty on the other end of that. There's a reason Ryder, Halak and a 2nd is still a meme today.

 

[CanadienShark]

The Montreal fanbase includes some of the most knowledgeable hockey people I've ever spoken to but there's also plenty on the other end of that. There's a reason Ryder, Halak and a 2nd is still a meme today.

Yep, certainly a spectrum. And then there's me.

 

[C0DITH]

Barron....Moosehead Alumn....is a bottom pairing guy in the NHL (I don't see him as a legit top4). Drysdale has top pairing upside (top4 worst case). Drysdale was thrown into the NHL too early, and played on a terrible team. Add in the injuries, and he has been hindered from reaching his potential just yet. That being said, Brad Shaw + being healthy, gets him moving back into that direction. Likely will be on the top Powerplay when Michkov arrives as well.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

What's the deployment and quality of competition? I don't know for Drysdale , but Guhle is facing the opposing team best players.

Well he played 18 games for the Ducks over the last 2 seasons so not really a legitimate sample size, but in his rookie year he lead his team in TOI vs elite competition with 530 minutes and 38.8% of his 5v5 TOI. When he got to Philly York, Sanheim, and Walker were already there playing tough minutes. The first 2 are still there but Walker is gone so at the very least he probably steps into Walker's role for next season

 

[jfhabs]

Well he played 18 games for the Ducks over the last 2 seasons so not really a legitimate sample size, but in his rookie year he lead his team in TOI vs elite competition with 530 minutes and 38.8% of his 5v5 TOI. When he got to Philly York, Sanheim, and Walker were already there playing tough minutes. The first 2 are still there but Walker is gone so at the very least he probably steps into Walker's role for next season

Yes, very curious to see what he does next year. I think we'll have a better understanding of his value than. My comment was more in regards to Guhle than Drysdale, but thanks for the insights.

 

[jfhabs]

Barron....Moosehead Alumn....is a bottom pairing guy in the NHL (I don't see him as a legit top4). Drysdale has top pairing upside (top4 worst case). Drysdale was thrown into the NHL too early, and played on a terrible team. Add in the injuries, and he has been hindered from reaching his potential just yet. That being said, Brad Shaw + being healthy, gets him moving back into that direction. Likely will be on the top Powerplay when Michkov arrives as well.

I don't think the OP was making a direct comparaison between Barron and Drysdale. It was more to say, why don't Barron is said to have no value (on HF board) while he's in a similar situation than Drysdale even tho they are in different tier of draft position/upside. Drysdale was just traded for a very good prospect in Gauthier, while most other teams fans here say Barron is worthless..

To your point, if Drysdale as top pairing upside, I think you need to assume Barron as top 4 upside. Honestly, I never really liked him from the moment we got him. He's a little bit like a young Jeff Petry. He's so smooth, so sometimes he looks like he's smarter than everyone, but sometimes he also look like he's the softest player in the league and look stupid. That being said, he has amazing tools : size, skating and shot. The upside is there.

 

[Curufinwe]

Drysdale was suffering from multiple injuries last season, but he was pretty poor for the Flyers when he did play. I don't hold out much hope he will be an impact player in Philly.

 

[CDN24]

Drysdale retained more value since he had way more value to retain, He was the 6th OA pick in 2020 while Barron was 25th.

Both players appear to have plateaued a bit in their development. Drysdale has not seemed the same or as productive since his injury. Barron showed promise in 22-23 but kind of regressed last season. This year is a big year for both of them.

The top 10 pick will always retain more value longer and get more chances because of being a top pick. I always think of Chad Kilger drafted 4th overall played a bit over 700 games in the NHL with 7 different teams over 12 yrs. Never lived up to his draft position but teams kept taking a chance on him based of that draft pedigree

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think these are different pedigrees of players. I mean just look at their relatively recent draft positions, 6th overall vs. 25th overall.

That doesn't mean much today. Where players are drafted fades pretty quickly in D+1 and D+2.

I would say I'd value Drysdale over Barron but the point here is it appears fans are OK with Drysdale and waiting it out but then quickly throw Barron under the bus. Acting like they already know. Barron's a rare RD who has great mobility and skating. Also has a very good shot and his goal scoring is underrated. He's lacking maturity... like Drysdale.

There is a fair chance both of these two are top 4D from age 25-30. They are just taking a bit to mature and be trusted on D in their own end.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Drysdale rode his high draft pedigree and first NHL season for a little while. When he's healthy, he can make a difference. Barron hasn't completely figured it out yet and it is the reason why he's been sent down multiple times to work on his game.

Two different players and talent. While I still think Barron has decent to good value, he shouldn't be anywhere near Drysdale, even if he's having a hard time staying healthy

 

[ryan callahan]

Dude did Drysdale run over your dog or something? Like I don't know what you are expecting from a guy who is 21 and under, but elite defense on an awful team should not be it. Like look at Guhle for example over the last 2 seasons (114 games) he's been on the ice for 78 GF and 104 GA at 5v5.

I never said Guhle wasn't bad this year? What is your point exactly? There is a difference between ''gets a little bit outplayed because of his support cast'' and getting completely torn apart in the most important game situation in hockey. And to come back to your example : Guhle was merely bad. Drysdale is historically awful. Whatever deployment he's getting should be significantly cut.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I never said Guhle wasn't bad this year? What is your point exactly? There is a difference between ''gets a little bit outplayed because of his support cast'' and getting completely torn apart in the most important game situation in hockey. And to come back to your example : Guhle was merely bad. Drysdale is historically awful. Whatever deployment he's getting should be significantly cut.

Typical deflective response. Drysdale played a total of 18 games for the Ducks over the last 2 seasons so the majority of your argument comes from his 19 year old season where he played by far the most minutes against elite competition on his team, which is crazy to think of for a 19 year old because guys like Hampus Lindholm and Josh Manson were still on that team for most of that season.

In Philly he was playing more sheltered minutes, because he joined a team that already had an established top 3 defensemen for the season in York, Sanheim, and Walker. Torts obviously wasn't going to mess with what was working already.

My point is simple. You have this ridiculous POV of Drysdale that is for the most part completely baseless. The majority of your dislike for him comes from when he was 19 years old on a bad team so you have crazy expectations for a player at that age