Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
How many dmen can lay claim to two Olympic Gold Medals and two Stanley Cups? Only two in the NHL right now are Drew Doughty and Duncan Keith.
Drew Doughty voted Best Defenseman in the league on NHL.com
- Thread starter Degenerate
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triplcrown
Registered User
Normally, the label "shutdown defenseman" is used for a good defensive d-man who plays a 1-way game (Mitchell, Greene, Regehr, etc).
But when you think about it, Doughty is the best shutdown defenseman in the NHL.
There is no D-man better at being a counter to a superstar like Getzlaf, Kane, Crosby, Ovechkin, etc etc etc
DD combines high-level shutdown defense with creative offense like no other player in the NHL.
And nobody is better at stopping an opposing superstar.
Nobody.
To his credit, he is always defense-first, as the Kings' system prioritizes.
I actually think DD can get even better as a player, overall.
But when you think about it, Doughty is the best shutdown defenseman in the NHL.
There is no D-man better at being a counter to a superstar like Getzlaf, Kane, Crosby, Ovechkin, etc etc etc
DD combines high-level shutdown defense with creative offense like no other player in the NHL.
And nobody is better at stopping an opposing superstar.
Nobody.
To his credit, he is always defense-first, as the Kings' system prioritizes.
I actually think DD can get even better as a player, overall.
Last edited:
cyclones22
Registered User
And nobody is better at stopping an opposing superstar.
Nobody.
To his credit, he is always defense-first, as the Kings' system prioritizes.
I actually think DD can get even better as a player, overall.
Another thing I like about him, and I really think he's going to have a letter on his jersey sometime in the future, is he's not afraid to say he needs to be the best defenseman on the ice or he needs to stop a player for the team to win. In 2012, he said to the press he needed to be the best defender on the ice every night and he was. This past season I specifically remember him saying he needed to stop Crosby prior to the Kings second matchup between the 2 teams and he did for the most part (1 assist for Crosby) and Doughty was the first star of the game in a Kings victory. How many players have the balls to say something like that? Not we need to stop or slow down player X, but I have to. It's just that ultimate belief and the ability to back it up. Not a lot of players have that.
triplcrown
Registered User
Norris Trophy winners like PK Subban and Erik Carlsson are outstanding players, but there wouldn't be even 1 (one) NHL coach
or GM who would not take non-Norris Trophy winner DD over either one of those guys.
God bless the day we drafted him.
or GM who would not take non-Norris Trophy winner DD over either one of those guys.
God bless the day we drafted him.
jfont
Registered User
well sure that is how the metrics was. offensive and defensive production.
but looking at the times when neids broke out., he didn't break 50 points until the later half of his career.
And those that won it are named
Blake
McInnis
Pronger
Chara
Keith
Pretty stiff competition during his tenure and wouldn't argue against these guys.
tigermask48
Maniacal Laugh
The two moments for me that made me realize how good Doughty is are the spin move he pulled during the 2010 olympics and his goal in game 2 of the 2012 finals.
Making the olympic team at 20 was impressive enough, but you gotta have balls of steel to try that move in a game on that big of a stage as a 20 year old.
The goal in the finals he just flat out sees space and takes it. Just a beautiful shift from start to finish.
triplcrown
Registered User
While I have no doubt DD would love to win a Norris, I get a strong feeling that
if he could only win 1 individual trophy, he'd prefer to win a Conn Smythe over a Norris, any time.
He never said this, but to me, he seems to radiate it.
if he could only win 1 individual trophy, he'd prefer to win a Conn Smythe over a Norris, any time.
He never said this, but to me, he seems to radiate it.
tigermask48
Maniacal Laugh
Reclamation Project
Cut It All Right In Two
- Jul 6, 2011
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Whiskeypete
Registered User
Norris is all about offense, we know this. imo it is a bs award and the NHL needs to create two different awards for Dmen. as it stands today as the 'best Dman' is a complete sham, because the offensive production outweighs the performance in the defensive zone.
they need to do something similar to the Rocket Richard Trophy for Dmen
they need to do something similar to the Rocket Richard Trophy for Dmen
Jebus
That boulder?
Here's my feeling. The GMs, AGMs and coaches know way more about hockey than the rest of the voters. They watch hours of tape, discuss players in detail and draw game plans around opposing players all the time. Even Scott Howsen's opinion on a player is going to be 100x more qualified. They should vote on all the major awards especially the Norris. They already vote on the Vezina and that award is rarely controversial.
Whiskeypete
Registered User
valid point, but the problem is the Vezina is the easiest one to vote on. the goalies are decided on by the same stats and those stats essentially reflect 100% of what a goalie does on the ice. yes there will be debate comparing one guy's GAA versus another goalie's W-L or save %. the debate largely ends after this and the stats are based primarily around W-L, save %, GAA. those three stats will summarize any keepers performance.
the definition of the Norris on the other hand begins the problem and the flaw relating to Dmen.
Norris Memorial Trophy is awarded annually to the National Hockey League's top "defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position". all around? really? so why has this award become so heavily influenced by offensive stats?
there are no true individual defined stats for Dmen, like there are for goalies. in the present i believe this is changing with the new stat measurements being used, but historically there has not been an accurate reflection for Dmen.
what stat exists that accurately defines a Dman? +/-? hell many people completely ignore this and won't accept it as a defining stat. when you consider that it is an accurate stat that reflects each players contribution for and against, how can you not? is +/- flawed? yes, but it is a stat that cannot be ignored.
outside of that stat what else exists that will provide a measurement of a player's offensive and defensive contributions?
i think with the new advanced stats are we finally moving in a direction that tells a more complete and accurate representation of what each Dman provides a team.
imo the change happened in the mid-80s. at that point you began to see the winners posting significant offensive points each season. before this the winners were well known as a defenseman, as in the shut down Dman. the voting and the definition of what was valued changed.
now when you have guys like Weber, Suter, Doughty and others that will post good offensive numbers, but are excellent Dmen that can shut down an opponent they get shut out. they seem to get a nod here and there as a nomination, but the winner seems to be the guy that posts the best G and A. as an after thought they comment about the +/- and the team's GAA or W-L, but imo it is all lip service. they focus entirely on G and A.
i will take a DD, Weber, Suter and similar defensemen everyday; over the likes of a Karlsson or Subban.
give me guys that can net me 20-40 pts overall per season, but play the shutdown role and the play the PK.
the Norris as it stands today is a joke.
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 21,521
- 19,028
When Mike Green got nominated for the Norris, no one ever took it seriously. It was a mere formality. He was widely dismissed and criticized as a one dimensional player by the hockey media.
Mike Green
08/09 - 68gp 31g 42a 73pts +24 2:28 SH TOI/G
09/10 - 75gp 19g 57a 76pts +39 2:09 SH TOI/G
Erik Karlsson
11/12 - 81gp 19g 59a 78pts +16 00:33 SH TOI/G
The Canadian media is highly influential when it comes to hockey, and they fawned all over Karlsson & Subban because they play for Canadian teams. Green never got the same treatment.
Do you think EK or PK would have been as beloved by Canadian hockey writers if they played for Carolina and Tampa Bay? If Mike Green would have put up those kind of numbers with Toronto, he'd be a saint.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Thats your view, its not mine. Canadian media can be overly critical of guys playing for Canadian teams as well. When Phil Housley was pumping home 90 points for the Jets there wasn't anyone saying he should be up for the Norris. Even the Jets main TV station at the time, CKY, ragged on him for his defensive play. But we won't convince each other otherwise, so moving on.
GummiBaked
Holiday in Cambodia
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