Player Discussion Drake Batherson (RW) - Part II

[Burrowsaurus]

If say Bath and his line are by far our best three forwards. Don't see why he'd get any hate. Also his linw seems to be the only that doesn't make major mental gaffs.

And they all check hard.

I’m sorry. Batherson? No major mental gaffs?

 

[Xspyrit]

Some defenders can succeed on their offside, but is it really something worth risking for us considering how poor our D depth is and how much we need for someone to break out on the blueline? Chabot is also the type of player who needs a good partner to excel. If Sanderson is not at his best, I don't think Chabot would succeed.

That's what I was saying, based on the metrics (although not a huge sample size), Sanderson could continue to be at his best as this paring has impressive metrics. IMO, they should have gone Chabot-Sands and Chychrun-Zub to attain the best efficiency but too late anyway.

I agree that we need another upgrade on RD. Chabot Sanderson pairing seems like a move to facilitate Chycrun. Better to have our top D properly slotted and just find a way to get a better RD.

I do think that a combination of those forwards do make us a better team. I don’t think Bath is capable of playing the brand of hockey that is becoming our identity, but we shall see.

Yes it would have been to make Chychrun more comfortable. Top-4 RDs are extremely hard to find. I don't blame Dorion for acquiring him as he is young/good but that meant one guy had to be good at RD and I believe Sanderson would have been the best candidate out of the 3.

Chychrun was just not put in the best position to succeed and with the price we paid to acquire him, it should have been a top priority.

I 100% believe Jensen was a clear upgrade on Chychrun. Chychrun was a train wreck here, while Jensen was quite good.

That was not the point at all. The point is when teams/fans/hockey people will make their lists for Top D-men, Chychrun's name will come out much much earlier than Jensen. And that's without accounting the fact that Chychrun is almost 8 years younger.

But yeah, Jensen was a good stop gap solution but can't ignore that we lost big time in terms of asset management here, the thing that some found ridiculous here but that many around the league find crucial.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Bath seemed to forget how to play good defensive hockey in the playoffs, but he did embrace it early with Jacques Martin and for a chunk of the season under Green.

It’s not only about playing consistent defence. It’s about not committing the disaster player.

What he did in overtime of game 2…there’s just not many players that are capable of that sort of error in the NHL in playoff OT. With batherson on the team like there’s always a risk he’s gonna do some shit like that

 

[jbeck5]

It’s not only about playing consistent defence. It’s about not committing the disaster player.

What he did in overtime of game 2…there’s just not many players that are capable of that sort of error in the NHL in playoff OT. With batherson on the team like there’s always a risk he’s gonna do some shit like that

I see that too. Reminds me of Spezza...and with Spezza, I often thought that he was such a great young player...always been around the media...he's known as being hockey obsessed and a hockey nerd, like Crosby...

So you would always hope he would turn into some Yzerman or Sakic type leader... But he never did...he always did the lazy no look sauce drop pass...like batherson...and his backchecking always questioned...like batherson.

Just doesn't have that 2 way drive like a Hossa or Alfredsson or stone or Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Those players were soo good defensively, almost like robotic backcheck, because it was engrained in them. They knew that they would get a lot of numbers by turning pucks over and countering while the opposition was still thinking offense. They would get their cookies by being in a good position defensively and turning the puck over for a 2 on 1.

Whereas Spezza and batherson think "ok, we have the puck now. How can be get a goal" the others I named think "ok, if we can get the puck back quickly, they won't be ready for our attack" and it's fundamentally different. Maybe I'm not wording it properly.

 

[JungleBeat]

I see that too. Reminds me of Spezza...and with Spezza, I often thought that he was such a great young player...always been around the media...he's known as being hockey obsessed and a hockey nerd, like Crosby...

So you would always hope he would turn into some Yzerman or Sakic type leader... But he never did...he always did the lazy no look sauce drop pass...like batherson...and his backchecking always questioned...like batherson.

Just doesn't have that 2 way drive like a Hossa or Alfredsson or stone or Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Those players were soo good defensively, almost like robotic backcheck, because it was engrained in them. They knew that they would get a lot of numbers by turning pucks over and countering while the opposition was still thinking offense. They would get their cookies by being in a good position defensively and turning the puck over for a 2 on 1.

Whereas Spezza and batherson think "ok, we have the puck now. How can be get a goal" the others I named think "ok, if we can get the puck back quickly, they won't be ready for our attack" and it's fundamentally different. Maybe I'm not wording it properly.

Spezza and Batherson aren’t really comparable because Spezza was a clear 1C and line driver even though he had hiccups. Different leagues.

A comparable would be Hoffman. 2nd passenger with no defence.

 

[jbeck5]

Spezza and Batherson aren’t really comparable because Spezza was a clear 1C and line driver even though he had hiccups. Different leagues.

A comparable would be Hoffman. 2nd passenger with no defence.

They are though. Their deficiencies were very similar. Obviously Spezza was better and therefore more valuable. But that wasn't my point.

Hoffman is a different style altogether. Hoffman didn't do no look back sauces. He wasn't a playmaker. He was a goal scorer.

Batherson and Spezza are both 6'3 playmakers who like making high risk passes that often go the other way for odd man rushes and both didn't backcheck to people's liking

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I see that too. Reminds me of Spezza...and with Spezza, I often thought that he was such a great young player...always been around the media...he's known as being hockey obsessed and a hockey nerd, like Crosby...

So you would always hope he would turn into some Yzerman or Sakic type leader... But he never did...he always did the lazy no look sauce drop pass...like batherson...and his backchecking always questioned...like batherson.

Just doesn't have that 2 way drive like a Hossa or Alfredsson or stone or Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Those players were soo good defensively, almost like robotic backcheck, because it was engrained in them. They knew that they would get a lot of numbers by turning pucks over and countering while the opposition was still thinking offense. They would get their cookies by being in a good position defensively and turning the puck over for a 2 on 1.

Whereas Spezza and batherson think "ok, we have the puck now. How can be get a goal" the others I named think "ok, if we can get the puck back quickly, they won't be ready for our attack" and it's fundamentally different. Maybe I'm not wording it properly.

I see you but spezza is like….anze kopitar compared to batherson. Also spezza was so incredible in possession and offense that his defense lapses weren’t as evident. Batherson is not good enough offensively to be as bad a disaster prone as he is.

Batherson good offensively. And atrocious defensively.

Spezza was an incredible
Offensive talent who played passable defense.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

They are though. Their deficiencies were very similar. Obviously Spezza was better and therefore more valuable. But that wasn't my point.

Hoffman is a different style altogether. Hoffman didn't do no look back sauces. He wasn't a playmaker. He was a goal scorer.

Batherson and Spezza are both 6'3 playmakers who like making high risk passes that often go the other way for odd man rushes and both didn't backcheck to people's liking

Sure but same idea. Hoffman and batherson both clueless. And honestly I don’t think Hoffman even does what batherson did in that OT.

 

[jbeck5]

I see you but spezza is like….anze kopitar compared to batherson. Also spezza was so incredible in possession and offense that his defense lapses weren’t as evident. Batherson is not good enough offensively to be as bad a disaster prone as he is.

Batherson good offensively. And atrocious defensively.

Spezza was an incredible
Offensive talent who played passable defense.

I don't disagree with you, but not my point.

My point is that he and Spezza both were big lanky playmakers who would make risky passes and criticized backcheck game.

But I agree with you that Spezza was much better offensively and defensively, and a better possession player and a better playmaker and shooter and anything. I don't think batherson does anything better than Spezza. But again, this paragraph has nothing to do with my point about playmakers making risky passes that go the other way, followed by a casual backcheck.

 

[jbeck5]

Sure but same idea. Hoffman and batherson both clueless. And honestly I don’t think Hoffman even does what batherson did in that OT.

Yeah, in defensive zone coverage, Hoffman and batherson are both way more clueless than Spezza.

But I don't see Hoffman make those super risky passes because he wasn't much of a passer. Not that he doesn't pass. But I don't think he went for a bunch of risky passes. He would have probably rocketed it at the goalie.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I don't disagree with you, but not my point.

My point is that he and Spezza both were big lanky playmakers who would make risky passes and criticized backcheck game.

But I agree with you that Spezza was much better offensively and defensively, and a better possession player and a better playmaker and shooter and anything. I don't think batherson does anything better than Spezza. But again, this paragraph has nothing to do with my point about playmakers making risky passes that go the other way, followed by a casual backcheck.

My issue in OT wasn’t really the pass. That shit happens. Lots of players give possession back in the O zone. If they didn’t then only one team would ever have the puck.

What was unforgivable was that defensive play on domi.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yeah, in defensive zone coverage, Hoffman and batherson are both way more clueless than Spezza.

But I don't see Hoffman make those super risky passes because he wasn't much of a passer. Not that he doesn't pass. But I don't think he went for a bunch of risky passes. He would have probably rocketed it at the goalie.

I think he’s probably way harder on Domi as well. I at least think he doesn’t let domi don’t him what he did to batherson.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

If Bath was putting up Speeza numbers, his gaffs would be a lot easier to live with. That's pretty much the bottom line...how much offense does a player put up compared to how many defensive lapses, and how bad are the gaffs. Then you toss in salary cap stuff on top of that.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Also the thing with Hoffman is you could put him with Pageau and condra and he literally would not negate their defensive abilities.

If you put batherson on any line it’s automatically a liability defensively.

 

[Boud]

If Bath was putting up Speeza numbers, his gaffs would be a lot easier to live with. That's pretty much the bottom line...how much offense does a player put up compared to how many defensive lapses, and how bad are the gaffs. Then you toss in salary cap stuff on top of that.

For me I don’t know if it’s about the mistakes as much as it is about consistency in his play. He’s not a defensive minded player and I think he’s gotten better at it but we don’t need him to put 15 points in 7 games and then 0 points in 7 games. It feels like he has more to give and it also feels like he could be a superstar if he “figured it out”. I remember him pre-Dell incident and that season he was legitimately dominant.

That said, he was way better after the trade deadline overall in his effort level. He was probably our best player from the deadline on … until the playoffs came around.

I still love the player but there’s something about him making me think he could be even better. This is his best season yet and it feels like he could be better. I would definitely like to see how he looks next season with the tough playoffs. Could be the motivation he needs.

Him and especially Cozens have room to grow. They could be deadly if they pulled it together.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

For me I don’t know if it’s about the mistakes as much as it is about consistency in his play. He’s not a defensive minded player and I think he’s gotten better at it but we don’t need him to put 15 points in 7 games and then 0 points in 7 games. It feels like he has more to give and it also feels like he could be a superstar if he “figured it out”. I remember him pre-Dell incident and that season he was legitimately dominant.

That said, he was way better after the trade deadline overall in his effort level. He was probably our best player from the deadline on … until the playoffs came around.

I still love the player but there’s something about him making me think he could be even better. This is his best season yet and it feels like he could be better. I would definitely like to see how he looks next season with the tough playoffs. Could be the motivation he needs.

Him and especially Cozens have room to grow. They could be deadly if they pulled it together.

He definitely leaves you feeling like there's more there. His highs are really great on the eyes with those flashy plays.

At the same time, I'm not sure how much runway he has left. Players are always learning and refining their game, but what are the odds he reaches the next level?

 

[Boud]

He definitely leaves you feeling like there's more there. His highs are really great on the eyes with those flashy plays.

At the same time, I'm not sure how much runway he has left. Players are always learning and refining their game, but what are the odds he reaches the next level?

Agreed. Chances are low.

I wouldn’t be opposed to trading him if the return was really worth it.

 

[PlayOn]

I think Batherson has more in him and I also believe he’s going to get there.

He’s also probably the kind of player you regret giving big money and term to down the road.

So on that note, I kinda get the idea of trading him. But the return has to be really great or imo we are just better off keeping him until the end of his deal and re-evaluating then.

 

[jbeck5]

My issue in OT wasn’t really the pass. That shit happens. Lots of players give possession back in the O zone. If they didn’t then only one team would ever have the puck.

What was unforgivable was that defensive play on domi.

Spezza was also guilty of poking with his stick and not taking the body while also being a big 6'3 man.

 

[Cosmix]

I see you but spezza is like….anze kopitar compared to batherson. Also spezza was so incredible in possession and offense that his defense lapses weren’t as evident. Batherson is not good enough offensively to be as bad a disaster prone as he is.

Batherson good offensively. And atrocious defensively.

Spezza was an incredible
Offensive talent who played passable defense.

Spezza could play solid defense if he WANTED to do it. I saw him do it against Crosby, in the playoffs I think. He just did not want to do the work required and preferred to save his energy for offense with the puck. It paid off for him with a high salary.

Batherson is not as good as Spezza offensively and he is not paid as much comparatively for the era he played. Batherson has also shown laziness on defense like Spezza. I would not be surprised if Batherson was traded. But the trade would have to bring a decent asset back.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Spezza was also guilty of poking with his stick and not taking the body while also being a big 6'3 man.

I mean he did it lots of players do it. But bathersons that was …extreme. Also in a moment like that. To me unforgivable unless it’s made up for. He made up for it by taking a 4 minute penalty in an OT two games later

 

[bicboi64]

Spezza definitely got better defensively as he got older. Problem is, he was matched up against absolute beasts and no amount of effort would work when trying to chase prime Crosby.

Anyone remember this?

Spezza is trying is hardest, but Crosby made him look like a peewee player.

Friggin prime Crosby

 

[Cosmix]

Spezza definitely got better defensively as he got older. Problem is, he was matched up against absolute beasts and no amount of effort would work when trying to chase prime Crosby.

Anyone remember this?

Spezza is trying is hardest, but Crosby made him look like a peewee player.

Friggin prime Crosby

I disagree with your conclusion. Yes Crosby was moving about with the puck. But Spezza was tracking him and preventing Crosby from going to the net and making a dangerous pass to a player in the slot or getting a dangerous scoring opportunity. Spezza was "very good" at "containing" Crosby in that sequence. It was one of the few times I saw him put in the effort required to defend like that.

 

[bicboi64]

I disagree with your conclusion. Yes Crosby was moving about with the puck. But Spezza was tracking him and preventing Crosby from going to the net and making a dangerous pass to a player in the slot or getting a dangerous scoring opportunity. Spezza was "very good" at "containing" Crosby in that sequence. It was one of the few times I saw him put in the effort required to defend like that.

I think we agree for the most part mate. Spezza did his best, but he eventually let Crosby get the pass away. Prime Bergeron or Kopitar may have stripped Crosby of the puck, but very few players could've stopped Crosby from making a play.

Excellent hustle by Spezza, and he had more of it in our own end as he grew/matured

 

[Cosmix]

I think we agree for the most part mate. Spezza did his best, but he eventually let Crosby get the pass away. Prime Bergeron or Kopitar may have stripped Crosby of the puck, but very few players could've stopped Crosby from making a play.

Excellent hustle by Spezza, and he had more of it in our own end as he grew/matured

It's impossible to prevent the player from making a pass, such as back to a D at the point, when you are trying to contain the player and prevent a more dangerous pass to the slot area.