Draisaitl vs Makar

[Northern Avs Fan]

Who would you take going forward? Leon Draisaitl? Or Cale Makar?

 

[Tralfamadore]

Have to go with the playoff performer. Back to back to back western conference quarter final champion is no joke.

 

[heretik27]

Makar being 3 years younger is a pretty big factor for me given you could assume they both have very positive impacts on their teams going forward.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

At least on the Rangers it's Draisaitl easily. Even though Fox has had a down season defensively, he's been at a PPG. We need Draisaitl more.

 

[5 14 6 1]

I'm an Oilers fan and I'd take Makar.
He is my favorite non-oiler though.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

50g/50a #1C with a sweetheart contract is just too good

 

[Lemonlimey]

50g/50a #1C with a sweetheart contract is just too good

Only thing better would be a franchise defensemen that scores 100 points also.

(Unlikely Cale hits that this year, but fun it’s possible.)

Neon Leon‘s contract makes this a 50/50 for sure

 

[snipes]

Leon likely hits another 50 + 50 season this year. Such a gifted player, not that Makar isn’t either he’s such a fun player to watch too.

 

[Icebreakers]

50g/50a #1C with a sweetheart contract is just too good

Makar is on a sweet heart contract for another 5 years after this one while pacing for almost 100p as a dman.

 

[La Bamba]

Makar is my favourite non-Oiler player but it's hard to top a guy who has averaged 50 goals/66 assists, 116 pts per 82 games since the 18/19 season.

 

[biturbo19]

I think i take the elite #1C over the dynamic defenceman here. You can sort of get by with lesser defencemen, if you have a guy like Draisaitl up front. I'm not sure the opposite is strictly true. I don't think Makar is able to be as effective if he doesn't have that dynamic offensive talent in front of him.

 

[avsfan9]

I think i take the elite #1C over the dynamic defenceman here. You can sort of get by with lesser defencemen, if you have a guy like Draisaitl up front. I'm not sure the opposite is strictly true. I don't think Makar is able to be as effective if he doesn't have that dynamic offensive talent in front of him.

Yeah just like the oilers

 

[biturbo19]

Yeah just like the oilers

Yes. Exactly. Demonstrating that Draisaitl can be effective, without any real top quality help from the blueline to do what he does.

Whereas Makar...well, he's working with a lot more up front than Draisaitl is behind him in Edmonton with a fairly embarrassing blueline.


Unless the argument here is..."Makar is on a better team, so he's better"...i'm not sure what the point is.

 

[avsfan9]

Yes. Exactly. Demonstrating that Draisaitl can be effective, without any real top quality help from the blueline to do what he does.

Whereas Makar...well, he's working with a lot more up front than Draisaitl is behind him in Edmonton with a fairly embarrassing blueline.


Unless the argument here is..."Makar is on a better team, so he's better"...i'm not sure what the point is.

It’s pretty naive to watch Makar play and say it’s because he’s on a good team and not take into consideration the Draisitl plays with Mcdavid. Take Mcdavid away and see if Draisitl is still as effective. Wasn’t Tyson Barrie the highest scoring d man in the league last year as well. Makar is the Mcdavid of defensmen and it’s not hard to tell he not just a product of a good team.

 

[biturbo19]

It’s pretty naive to watch Makar play and say it’s because he’s on a good team and not take into consideration the Draisitl plays with Mcdavid. Take Mcdavid away and see if Draisitl is still as effective. Wasn’t Tyson Barrie the highest scoring d man in the league last year as well. Makar is the Mcdavid of defensmen and it’s not hard to tell he not just a product of a good team.

It's not that Makar is good because he's on a good team at all. It's that Draisaitl has demonstrated that he can produce without that support from the back end. Makar...i think faces the challenges of any defenceman, where it's less reliable to expect them to produce the same way, if they're moving the puck to less talented forwards.

Draisaitl has also demonstrated he can be productive while McDavid is injured. That's a non-factor. He's productive playing on different lines, he's productive when McDavid is injured for a stretch. You can just take that narrative, and file it away under "debunked".

 

[avsfan9]

It's not that Makar is good because he's on a good team at all. It's that Draisaitl has demonstrated that he can produce without that support from the back end. Makar...i think faces the challenges of any defenceman, where it's less reliable to expect them to produce the same way, if they're moving the puck to less talented forwards.

Draisaitl has also demonstrated he can be productive while McDavid is injured. That's a non-factor. He's productive playing on different lines, he's productive when McDavid is injured for a stretch. You can just take that narrative, and file it away under "debunked".

Great defensmen are great regardless of who they play with. Would Paul Coffey be considered less of a d man if he didn’t play on stacked red wing and oilers teams? Same with Bourque, Pronger , Karlsson and Lidstrom. D men are great in the same way forwards are great. It’s because of who they are not because who they play with. Makar is just as productive for a d man as Draisitl is a forward but Makar can also defend which is something lacking from Draisitls over all game. Drai is great, I think Makar is more valuable

 

[Akrapovince]

Great defensmen are great regardless of who they play with. Would Paul Coffey be considered less of a d man if he didn’t play on stacked red wing and oilers teams? Same with Bourque, Pronger , Karlsson and Lidstrom. D men are great in the same way forwards are great. It’s because of who they are not because who they play with. Makar is just as productive for a d man as Draisitl is a forward but Makar can also defend which is something lacking from Draisitls over all game

I don’t think personnel necessarily matters when it comes to Makar’s game.

His evasive blue line movement, the space he creates by himself with his edges, and his elite shot when he gets into that space isn’t contingent on who is on the ice with him.

To an extent the same could apply to Draisatl, so it’s rather silly to use the point of linemates for these two players at all. Especially Makar.

Makar is the same level talent if not better than Karlsson, and Karlsson did some real special things and worked with what he had.

At the end of the day people are going to say the same thing, happened with Karlsson too.

1. Makar is only getting points because his team is good
2. Makar is only getting points because he’s the only good player on his team

You can’t win, Karlsson suffered from point #2 a lot.

 

[avsfan9]

I don’t think personnel necessarily matters when it comes to Makar’s game.

His evasive blue line movement, the space he creates by himself with his edges, and his elite shot when he gets into that space isn’t contingent on who is on the ice with him.

To an extent the same could apply to Draisatl, so it’s rather silly to use the point of linemates for these two players at all. Especially Makar.

Exactly. Makar creates so much offense on his own that it’s ridiculous. Prime Karlsson is renowned as one of the best offensive d men to ever play the game. Today I watched Karlsson clips on YouTube and then I watched some of Makars and I honestly think Makar might be a nice bit better.He does stuff Karlsson could not. Karlsson is a better passer but Makar has the edge everywhere else. Better skater, better shot, faster, better edges, more elusive,more physical , better defensively etc…

 

[Akrapovince]

Exactly. Makar creates so much offense on his own that it’s ridiculous. Prime Karlsson is renowned as one of the best offensive d men to ever play the game. Today I watched Karlsson clips on YouTube and then I watched some of Makars and I honestly think Makar might be a tier up. He does stuff Karlsson could not. Karlsson is a better passer but Makar has the edge everywhere else.

I think I made this post in another thread about Makar. I’ve watched a lot of Karlsson play, Makar is literally him on steroids.

Karlsson was the smoother skater, Makar is more explosive and better on his edges.

Karlsson was excellent at getting the puck through from the blueline for rebounds and tips, Makar is walking in and burying the shots himself.

I edited my post above but I’ll reiterate. It’s like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Good team means you’re only scoring because of your linemates, bad team means your only scoring because you’re the only good player. Can’t win.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Good team means you’re only scoring because of your linemates, bad team means your only scoring because you’re the only good player. Can’t win.

The former has some merit for sure, of course good players will benefit from playing with other good players. “Only” is too strong of a word to use though. It’s a mutual benefit.

Never heard the latter argument before but it’s a terrible argument so it’s not even worth paying attention to.

Somebody like Jagr or Karlsson outscoring their teammates by a ton makes their accomplishments more impressive, not less.

 

[Akrapovince]

The former has some merit for sure, of course good players will benefit from playing with other good players. “Only” is too strong of a word to use though. It’s a mutual benefit.

Never heard the latter argument before but it’s a terrible argument so it’s not even worth paying attention to.

Somebody like Jagr or Karlsson outscoring their teammates by a ton makes their accomplishments more impressive, not less.

The former has some merit for sure, of course good players will benefit from playing with other good players. “Only” is too strong of a word to use though. It’s a mutual benefit.

Never heard the latter argument before but it’s a terrible argument so it’s not even worth paying attention to.

Somebody like Jagr or Karlsson outscoring their teammates by a ton makes their accomplishments more impressive, not less.

During the days of Karlsson’s dominance that narrative was spewed out a lot.

“Well the offense has to run through someone”

“Someone has to score goals for the team”

 

[SillyRabbit]

During the days of Karlsson’s dominance that narrative was spewed out a lot.

“Well the offense has to run through someone”

“Someone has to score goals for the team”

Sounds like people were just trying to come up with ways to discredit Karlsson then.

This isn't basketball where each team gets a chance to take 40-50 shots per game and someone on your team will always have a chance to score.

If your team sucks offensively you simply won't score goals. Being the only good offensive player on a team makes it harder to score as defenses can focus in on them and their teammates cannot be counted on to reliably set up plays or finish them.

 

[authentic]

Makar no doubt. Much younger and might even be better already.

 

[pcruz]

It's not that Makar is good because he's on a good team at all. It's that Draisaitl has demonstrated that he can produce without that support from the back end. Makar...i think faces the challenges of any defenceman, where it's less reliable to expect them to produce the same way, if they're moving the puck to less talented forwards.

Draisaitl has also demonstrated he can be productive while McDavid is injured. That's a non-factor. He's productive playing on different lines, he's productive when McDavid is injured for a stretch. You can just take that narrative, and file it away under "debunked".

Year	Draft Pick #	Player
2011	1	Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2013	7	Darnell Nurse
2014	3	Leon Draisaitl
2015	1	Connor McDavid
2016	4	Jesse Puljujarvi
2018	10	Evan Bouchard
2019	8	Philip Broberg

 

[Tobias Kahun]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Year[/TD]
[TD]Draft Pick #[/TD]
[TD]Player[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Ryan Nugent-Hopkins[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2013[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Darnell Nurse[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Leon Draisaitl[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2015[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Connor McDavid[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2016[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Jesse Puljujarvi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2018[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Evan Bouchard[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2019[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Philip Broberg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Yeah, its a bummer that the oilers passed on their pick to skip Makar, oh wait...