Post-Game Talk: Draisaitl Denied: Jets win 4-3

[Tommigun]

Having Lemieux in the lineup is great. He brings some grit to the fourth line, and having Copp center it could finally up their minutes to respectable levels. Scheif and Wheeler need to be managed so they don’t burn up before or during the playoffs. Having a functional fourth line is key to accomplish that.

I think it’s time to put Roslovic on the wing full time for the rest of the season and just accept this. A fourth line with Roslovic in the middle and Petan on the wing is the antithesis of a fourth line.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Yep, but overall Buff, Morrissey & Trouba are all within the top 50 (18th, 41, 50) for defensemen.
Schief & Wheels are 4th & 10th highest among forwards.
Helly is tied for the 6th most games.

In a 31 team league, those are all exceptionally high.

I don't find it exceptionally high at all. You'd expect two in the top 50. With those 3 d-men, as good as they are, you'd expect them all to be in the top 50. Buff gets a disproportionate amount of his TOI standing in place on the PP.

All the D get PK time. 5v5 is the place to look and we have none in the top 31 and 3 in the top 62. Seems about right.

Only Scheifele, in my opinion, gets a bit too much ice time. I'd take him off the pk, though he may be our best there.

 

[Jet]

_________________________________________________________

The Oilers have major cap issues because of bad signings and bad trades, I believe they signed Lucic for around $ 8 mil, and he's worth nowhere near that,

Also trading Taylor Hall, and Eberlie were also bad mistakes

I'll be surprised if GM Peter Chiarelli is still there at the end of this season.

Answer-- do what the Leafs did -- hire a guy like Shannahan, and clean house, except for McDavid, and Drasaital, and start from scratch. It's the only way, because right now, they are are 1 line team, and McDavid is great, but he's only one man.

You had me til Leafs

The season hasn't played out yet, but the Leafs really made a couple of bad plays this year. Signing Jonathan Tavares was beyond stupid. Their strength is skilled forwards and scoring. Adding guy like Tavares, who is only going to decline from here is a real mismanagement of assets.

• The Leafs need top 4 D and a good backup goalie
• Tavares takes time and $$$ away from elite, cheaper team owned assets
• They will end up losing a guy like Nylander or Marner for Tavares. How is that smart?

Even if JT gets them a cup (which he won't) it will be short lived as they've accelerated their cap issues.

 

[Calendal]

Well it isn't hard to compliment another teams depth when you look at what he has to work with :p.

They had a good game last night but there production is way down

Here is a nice chart to show where our depth scoring ranks in the league:

Looks to me that we are essentially bottom half to bottom third in the league with regards to getting production from depth positions so I wouldn't be so quick to say that our depth has been very good for us. We have heavily relied on our top 6 and PP to date this year.

Not saying that's necessarily wrong, but without context such statistics mean little. Our TOP 6 hasn't missed any games thus far and we build our PP mostly on TOP 6 also. Would this track it as depth scoring if, say, Perreault moved up due to an injure in TOP 6?

 

[Jet]

Every NHL coach does this stuff so I just need to embrace......guys like Polak, zach Rino , the list goes on and on of smart coaches that walk over capable options to pick weird mind numbing choices?

That is why I am hoping for (well praying for) two things.....another full season for Stan in the AHL and meaningful development. We don’t need Logan to be better than replacement we just need him to be functional on the bottom pair. Honestly I think he has the potential to get there (I just typed that didn’t I )

These are the sacrifices the Hockey gods demand.

I know people are going to say "appeal to authority" blah blah blah but there is a reason these people are managing at the highest level of the sport. Just because we don't necessarily agree with their choices doesn't mean they are wrong. I think people forget there probably isn't anyone in the world who wants the Jets to win EVERY game more than Paul Maurice.

I think there are some here who'd rather see Niku in the lineup than Kulikov but seeing how Kuli has tracked lately with some health and playing time there's no way I'd pull him out of the lineup *shrugs*.

We all have our favorites, but Maurice has the elite reputation and experience to back up his favorite choices

 

[Jack722]

The Jets have zero defenceman in the top 30 for 5v5 ice time per game. Buff is 35th, trouba is 41st and Morrissey is 67th.

Scheifele is 7th, Wheeler 27th, Ehlers 41st for forwards.

Where are you getting your stats?

Simply looking at NHL.com and buff is #18 for d-men, while Scheifele is 4th for forwards behind Barkov, McDavid and Kopitar.

#5 Mackinnon
#6 Kane
#7 Couturier
#8 Draisaitl
#9 Larkin
#10 Wheeler

All teams with bad depth.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Kuli had a Man's man game on D

That was some big boy hockey he played

 

[Gil Fisher]

Where are you getting your stats?

Simply looking at NHL.com and buff is #18 for d-men, while Scheifele is 4th for forwards behind Barkov, McDavid and Kopitar.

#5 Mackinnon
#6 Kane
#7 Couturier
#8 Draisaitl
#9 Larkin
#10 Wheeler

All teams with bad depth.

Your looking at all situations...not 5v5.

 

[CaptainChef]

I don't find it exceptionally high at all. You'd expect two in the top 50. With those 3 d-men, as good as they are, you'd expect them all to be in the top 50. Buff gets a disproportionate amount of his TOI standing in place on the PP.

All the D get PK time. 5v5 is the place to look and we have none in the top 31 and 3 in the top 62. Seems about right.

Only Scheifele, in my opinion, gets a bit too much ice time. I'd take him off the pk, though he may be our best there.

I'll agree with you on the D-men because once you get past our top 3, its a big step down. Schief @ 4th & Wheels @ 10 is really bad. That and so little playing time for any 4th liners is inexcusable given we now have decent depth.
I could live with Helly in the top 10 if he was having a good season or if our backup was not. Really think the wear and tear got to him by the third round last year & would hate to see that repeated.

 

[Board Bard]

I don't find it exceptionally high at all. You'd expect two in the top 50. With those 3 d-men, as good as they are, you'd expect them all to be in the top 50. Buff gets a disproportionate amount of his TOI standing in place on the PP.

All the D get PK time. 5v5 is the place to look and we have none in the top 31 and 3 in the top 62. Seems about right.

Only Scheifele, in my opinion, gets a bit too much ice time. I'd take him off the pk, though he may be our best there.

Why would you expect two d-men in the top 50 when there are 31 teams in the league? An even distribution would be two in the top 62. The Jets exceed that.

Why is 5v5 the place to look when a substantial part of the discussion is trimming Sheifele's and Wheeler's minutes by getting them off the PK? Are players magically immune to fatigue and injury during PK and PP minutes? Even if they're not going full-out during a PP, they're still not getting time to recover from 5v5 shifts. Total time is the place to look, not some abridged version to suit a skewed point.

 

[Gil Fisher]

I'll agree with you on the D-men because once you get past our top 3, its a big step down. Schief @ 4th & Wheels @ 10 is really bad. That and so little playing time for any 4th liners is inexcusable given we now have decent depth.
I could live with Helly in the top 10 if he was having a good season or if our backup was not. Really think the wear and tear got to him by the third round last year & would hate to see that repeated.

Agree that 55 is getting about a PK shift and 5v5 shift too much per game. Pp minutes, that 55 and 26 get a lot of, are soft minutes. 26 is 27th in 5v5 ice time.

It'd be nice if 55-26 PK'd a lot less, but the GAR stats indicate they are easily our best duo.

Finally, why would you give fourth liners ice time in lieu of the top 9? If you cut down 55-26 ice time, surely it's in favour of Little's line?

 

[Adam da bomb]

Agree that 55 is getting about a PK shift and 5v5 shift too much per game. Pp minutes, that 55 and 26 get a lot of, are soft minutes. 26 is 27th in 5v5 ice time.

It'd be nice if 55-26 PK'd a lot less, but the GAR stats indicate they are easily our best duo.

Finally, why would you give fourth liners ice time in lieu of the top 9? If you cut down 55-26 ice time, surely it's in favour of Little's line?

18 and 81 look good on pk.

 

[CaptainChef]

Finally, why would you give fourth liners ice time in lieu of the top 9? If you cut down 55-26 ice time, surely it's in favour of Little's line?

Not a chance. I'm not sure how much time Little's line is getting, but for the most part they are by far our worst defensively. Would far rather have the 4th line averaging around 10 mins at least when we're in close games (which is most of the time). Makeup of our third line (plus the fact that they are much better PKers) really suggests that they should be averaging a couple mins more than 2nd liners unless we are in trailing and really needing goals.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Why would you expect two d-men in the top 50 when there are 31 teams in the league? An even distribution would be two in the top 62.

Because evenly distributed, ~2/3 of the teams should have 2 in the top 50.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Not a chance. I'm not sure how much time Little's line is getting, but for the most part they are by far our worst defensively.

If you'd rather give ice time to your 4th line, over your second or third line, your lines are wrong.

 

[pucka lucka]

I know people are going to say "appeal to authority" blah blah blah but there are a reason these people are managing at the highest level of the sport. Just because we don't necessarily agree with their choices doesn't mean they are wrong. I think people forget there probably isn't anyone in the world who wants the Jets to win EVERY game than Paul Maurice.

I think there are some here who'd rather see Niku in the lineup than Kulikov but seeing how Kuli has tracked lately with some health and playing time there's no way I'd pull him out of the lineup *shrugs*.

We all have our favorites, but Maurice has the elite reputation and experience to back up his favorite choices

There are managing it because they are the only ones with access to it. How would one go about getting a job in a meaningful role on an NHL team without already being in the club e.g. ex-player, dad was an ex-player, dad's dad was an ex-player?

 

[Board Bard]

Because evenly distributed, 2/3 of the team should have 2 in the top 62.

2 x 31 = 62

 

[Gil Fisher]

2 x 31 = 62

Sorry, 2/3 of the teams should have 2 in the top 50.

 

[Jack722]

Your looking at all situations...not 5v5.

Ahh yeah, didn't realize.

Point still stands though IMO

 

[Board Bard]

Sorry, 2/3 of the teams should have 2 in the top 50.

31 teams x .667 (2/3) = 20.67 teams x 2 d-men = 41.34 d-men. So in an even distribution, 2/3 of teams would have 2 in the top 42. Jets are okay there but add a third by 50, so slightly high maybe but not too far off an even distribution. I'll call it even Steven since the three are Morrissey, Trouba and Buff. The Jets do a worse job with their forwards IMO -- or two of them, anyway (plus the fourth line). That could stand to be adjusted and should be actively pursued by the coach.

 

[Duke749]

31 teams x .667 (2/3) = 20.67 teams x 2 d-men = 41.34 d-men. So in an even distribution, 2/3 of teams would have 2 in the top 42. Jets are okay there but add a third by 50, so slightly high maybe but not too far off an even distribution. I'll call it even Steven since the three are Morrissey, Trouba and Buff. The Jets do a worse job with their forwards IMO -- or two of them, anyway (plus the fourth line). That could stand to be adjusted and should be actively pursued by the coach.

Yeh I think the issue is up front. Need to reel it back just a bit.

Back end seems fine.

 

[ps241]

I know people are going to say "appeal to authority" blah blah blah but there are a reason these people are managing at the highest level of the sport. Just because we don't necessarily agree with their choices doesn't mean they are wrong. I think people forget there probably isn't anyone in the world who wants the Jets to win EVERY game than Paul Maurice.

I think there are some here who'd rather see Niku in the lineup than Kulikov but seeing how Kuli has tracked lately with some health and playing time there's no way I'd pull him out of the lineup *shrugs*.

We all have our favorites, but Maurice has the elite reputation and experience to back up his favorite choices

You spent allot of time in the radio business and you know how there is just “the way” to do things and from the outside looking in it strikes me there is allot of group think based on the history of the business model. It seemed like no matter what the format there was a likeness to the structure of how the business was set up. Probably because they made money at it and it worked.

I look at most industries and they seem to follow similar patterns and usually for logical reasons that make sense.

Now look at hockey and the origin of coaching and how it has evolved. Usually former players who taught what they learned so almost a tribal system of elders sharing with the young to mold and shape. That kind of cast the DNA in stone and everything is built off the teachings. Now over the years there have been lots of brilliant minds that have flowed into the field and there have been innovations but it’s hard to make radical change for a couple of reasons and I will share a story I think illustrates it.

The Tim Ferriss Podcast is amazing and this was one of my favorite episodes




One brilliant exchange when Tim was pressing Jocko about leading his team in battle in Iraq and Tim was saying the tactics must be tough in the clear and hold battles and Jocko said (paraphrasing).....Most tactics aren’t that complicated you formulate a plan based on the situation and it’s not rockert science.....Jocko went on to say however once you take that battle plan and try to factor in how the 12 different personalities of your team will react and act under stress it becomes infinitely more difficult because of all the variables in play.

I don’t think the x and o’s in hockey are that tough...however once you factor in your talents and personalities and how they will react on game day and over the season I think it becomes complicated. I think it’s 1 part knowledge of the game 3 parts people managment skills.

With so many moving parts there is a reason most coaches go with less skilled but more predictable verterans.....THEY ALL DO IT and all HFBoards fans unite in rage.

Death

Taxes

HFBoards hating their coach.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Not all of us

 

[ps241]

Not all of us

I know but if you bounce from board to board there is striking theme around coaching.

 

[Whileee]

Kuli had a Man's man game on D

That was some big boy hockey he played

Kulikov looked like a completely different player than he had previously. I have to think he was being held back with injuries. He's been so much quicker, more aggressive and more physical during his recent stint. He looks like a bona fide top 4 D right now.