Post-Game Talk: Drai speedruns Duck Hunt

[TheNumber4]

PTSD from the DOD

Lol. Yup that’s my theory too. Seems people can’t let go of that even when we’re like one of if not the best team in the league for a while now.

 

[TheNumber4]

Not at all. People are commenting that on 3 breakaways he stopped none. The goal and two posts, both with room, that beat him clean.

Ducks had 6HDSC. 2GA 2posts. What a batting average. Skinner didn't even make a handful of quality stops last night, was outclassed entirely by Dostal who had to save his club several X, and who was facing the most dangerous players in hockey. Skinner was facing a popgun offense that rarely scores.

Hitting posts aren’t goals allowed though. So let’s stop acting and crying as if they were.

And it’s not like the shooters are aiming to go post in unless Stu properly challenges the angle. There is some truth to the often said tongue in cheek statement “that’s all he gave him”.

Also, one of those two posts was actually deflected into the post by a Skinner according to NHL stats. I rewatched the replays, it’s extremely hard to tell with the angles given on the broadcast. But the nhl shot counters seems to have figured it out.

 

[TheNumber4]

Lol. Your argument holds no water because you just neglect the stats and come up with reasons to discredit them.

He has some of the worst numbers of any starter in the league in one of the best defensive teams in the league. Full stop.

The kid ain't it. Goaltending is the most important position in hockey and the Oilers are trying to rummage under the bargain bin.

Skinner is a competent backup, nothing more. You can vomit out more text diarrhea, but the numbers show where he is.

People who think he's garbage are delusional, just like you guys who think he's good. He's not a starter and his numbers are going down the longer he plays.


You guys act like every goal is in a vacuum. The kid isn't consistent. Has one of the worst high danger save percentages in the league.

No actually I acknowledge the stats over the longest sample size possible to say he’s an average to above average goalie.

It’s you who are discrediting stats to say he’s the worst goalie in the League.

Then you just ignore theories with some sense to them so you can go on and make absolutist statements like he’s garbage and blah blah. That’s just just hyperbolic non-sense fitting of forum trolling, not fitting of trying to assess the actual quality of goaltending you have. Which by all metrics is again average to above average. And if you can show me a stat or any logical reasoning to say he’s the worse goalie ever and not just average, let’s hear it.

 

[TheNumber4]

You haven’t been following along. Skinner is the feature obsession of this board whether we win or not or whether it matters or not at this point.

Most fans would say great shot - until Skinner lets one like that in.

Sometimes even when he’s not playing.

“no way skinner makes that Picard save”

Like JFC give it a break.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Sometimes even when he’s not playing.

“no way skinner makes that Picard save”

Like JFC give it a break.

lol you bring up skinner when he’s not playing more than anyone else.

 

[guymez]

The oilers are a great shot and chance suppression team, but I do think there’s some truth to theory that when they break down, they break down huge.

I also think that there’s truth to the often cited theory that it’s hard for goalies to get in the groove when they don’t see much pucks.

I think this leads to environment that’s not friendly to goalie stats.

Think about it, if Skinner ever has a night where he’s feeling it and on the top of his game, he doesn’t get to pad stats in that situation cause the oilers rarely get shot dominated. He’s left without that oppurtunity that other goalies are in that situation.

I know the theory might sound wack, or like I’m giving Skinner excuses, but I’m not the only one that’s had this thought or similar thoughts, the Athletics Goalie Expert Jesse Granger had a similar theory:

“The save percentage hasn’t been good, the stats aren’t great. But you play for a team that is not good for goalie stats. The oilers play a style where they possess the puck a lot, and you don’t get a huge volume of shots, but then when they do give up a chance because they are so aggressive offensively it’s a really dangerous chance. So I’ll give him a bit of a break on his save percentage. I don’t think the oilers play like a team where any goalie can step in and play .920, I think it’s the opposite for him. If you get the best out of skinner you have a chance at the cup.“

Your statement “he’s not a starter in the NHL” is more hyperbolic, mistruths from the Stu doubter community that can’t be verified with any actual stats. The oilers are a great defending team, but no way are we so great that we are making the playoffs 3 years in a row, while being cup favorites, and getting to the SCF finals with a non-starter goalie in net. That’s a just a ridiculous notion.

Appreciate you posting the highlighted.
Thats exactly what I have been seeing (and occassionally posting about) for a while now. Part of my argument was that the quality of chances the Oilers do give up is like a HDSC on steroids.
The only way to know that is to actually objectively watch the game.

So the sv% stats (and the HDSC's) on their own will not tell enough of the story to paint an accurate picture.

 

[ManOfSteelI]

He's only got 3 this season..

View attachment 955981

That appears to be goals.

Look on NHL.com, Rantanen and Mack lead the league with 12 & 11 ENP, respectively.

Drai has 2 and McDavid has none. Which is pretty wild lol, I didn't expect it to be THAT low.

 

[TheNumber4]

Appreciate you posting the highlighted.
Thats exactly what I have been seeing (and occassionally posting about) for a while now. Part of my argument was that the quality of chances the Oilers do give up is like a HDSC on steroids.
The only way to know that is to actually objectively watch the game.

So the sv% stats (and the HDSC's) on their own will not tell enough of the story to paint an accurate picture.

And that statement was made months and months before our eventual Game 7 Cup run. Can’t really argue that it hasn’t come to fruition. We had a chance with Skinner in net, and all oddsmakers and analytical models see it that same way again. So this notion that we have NO chance with Skinner in net, get the f*** outta here or prove the models wrong.

And yeh I think if you have an eye on defensive breakdowns as an analysis point of your team, you can see things like this. When people are so myopically focused on every little thing Skinner does or doesn’t do, they are missing a bigger picture. This hyper focus on Stu, and of a biased nature trying to find fault in EVERYTHING, can’t possibly lead to a clear view of the game.

 

[TheNumber4]

lol you bring up skinner when he’s not playing more than anyone else.

I don’t though? Not through 95% of this season. Maybe I did like 2 times during a Pickard start just to throw some shade at the “Stu wouldn’t have made that save” type comments that’s been happening all year.

 

[Juxta Position]

@TheNumber4
My statement of losing more then winning in 1 goal games was true until tonight with not my fault in Skinner in net. He is now 6 wins 6 Loses in 1 goal games this year.
Of these 12 one goal games he has 7 games where he has blown the leads in 3rd period, the team could only win 2 of those games.

1 goal game wins
Philly 4-3 OT
Calgary 4-2 but empty netter 5 seconds left
Islanders 4-3OT 3rd period blown lead, 850 save %
Tampa 2-1 gave up 20 shots
Boston 3-2 first 3-2 win on the season
Tonight Ducks 3-2 blew a 2-0 lead Drai bailed them out.


1 Goal losses
Car 3-2 OT blew a 2-0 lead in 3rd period they got 3 goals on last 11 shots
Vegas 4-2 empty netter with 5 seconds left, another blown 3rd period lead
Toronto 4-3 OT another blown 3rd period lead 810 save%
Vegas 1-0
Florida 6-5 another epic 3rd period blown lead 3 goals on 10 shots, 786 save %
Kings 4-3 OT another blown lead in 3rd period, gave up 5 shots 862 Save%

Great point, and i have no idea why Knobby took the other 5 players off the ice when the Oilers had the lead in the 3rd and left it all up to Skinner to protect those leads all by himself....Oh wait...

 

[TB12]

lol you bring up skinner when he’s not playing more than anyone else.

Like.

 

[jesusbuiltmyhotrod]

I don’t though? Not through 95% of this season. Maybe I did like 2 times during a Pickard start just to throw some shade at the “Stu wouldn’t have made that save” type comments that’s been happening all year.

You do and it’s sad bro… like You act like his defender . You bringing him up in gdts then rush to argue.

 

[TheNumber4]

You do and it’s sad bro… like You act like his defender . You bringing him up in gdts then rush to argue.

I know when I do and don’t though. The specific thing we’re talking about is bringing up Stu in a game he’s not playing. Which I didn’t for most of this season until maybe the last picks game or two in response to comments when Stu wasn’t even playing. In terms of talking about Stu in general though I have been on that a lot since that is the hot button issue around here, doesn’t happen when the game is live though. You also guys also think ANY analysis of defensive breakdowns on goal is defence of Stu, so your perception of that will be warped. In GDTs, go through them, I actually try to avoid getting into the weeds of the Stu debate during the games. I know this cause I do this consciously. After the game though, yeh I’ll get into the debate just like anyone else from the other side of it. Weird how only one side of it is “sad” though, I try to avoid throwing personal shade at the other side of the argument despite it being flung all the time at the Stu “defenders”. IMO, the trolling and alt accounts made to trash Stu and his “defenders” on a personal level is the sad part of it all when it’s just hockey talk. I don’t make it personal, but Stu haters make it personal over a difference in hockey opinion.

 

[guymez]

And that statement was made months and months before our eventual Game 7 Cup run. Can’t really argue that it hasn’t come to fruition. We had a chance with Skinner in net, and all oddsmakers and analytical models see it that same way again. So this notion that we have NO chance with Skinner in net, get the f*** outta here or prove the models wrong.

And yeh I think if you have an eye on defensive breakdowns as an analysis point of your team, you can see things like this. When people are so myopically focused on every little thing Skinner does or doesn’t do, they are missing a bigger picture. This hyper focus on Stu, and of a biased nature trying to find fault in EVERYTHING, can’t possibly lead to a clear view of the game.

Well put and I couldnt agree more.

Its refreshing to see some balance in these threads and to see a few posters like yourself that arent bothered by the inevitabe label that comes with questioning the Skinner narrative on here.
Labels (like Skinner glee club et al) which are only intended to try shut down all coversation that doesnt align with the Skinner vitriol.
Its like high school all over again in here sometimes.

 

[harpoon]

When he lets in a goal that isn’t his fault it’s “it would be nice if he made a big save when the team needed it once in a while.” That’s where that one would have landed.

Nah. If there’s a goal that nobody would complain about, that would be it.

 

[Spawn]

Lol. Yup that’s my theory too. Seems people can’t let go of that even when we’re like one of if not the best team in the league for a while now.

We’re closer to 9th in the conference than we are 1st. We wouldn’t even have home ice advantage for the first round if the playoffs started today.

If expectations were to be the best in the league, than this team has underperformed all season long.

 

[TheNumber4]

Well put and I couldnt agree more.

Its refreshing to see some balance in these threads and to see a few posters like yourself that arent bothered by the inevitabe label that comes with questioning the Skinner narrative on here.
A label (like Skinner glee club et al) which is only intended to try shut down all coversation that doesnt align with the Skinner vitriol.
Its like high school all over again in here sometimes.

Well I hope posters don’t feel like they are being censored by a mob mentality. It’s funny cause some Stu detractors were saying that of Reddit Oilers not too long ago, that any Stu hate gets censored there. But attacking a whole swath of posters in here can have the same effect and I think some regulars around here have already bowed out. Not that I’ll ever stop saying what I think, and if anyone wants to debate what I think, go right ahead and we can hash it out.

 

[TheNumber4]

We’re closer to 9th in the conference than we are 1st. We wouldn’t even have home ice advantage for the first round if the playoffs started today.

If expectations were to be the best in the league, than this team has underperformed all season long.

Well there is that whole curse of the Presidents trophy thing. Regular season dominance is not always an indication of playoffs success. There’s obvious other variables outside point standings that indicate chances at the Cup.

Last year we were off to an even worse start and didn’t finish top of our division. But the analysis of our Cup chances were ultimately correct, we got as far as any team possibly could.

But yeh after a Cup hangover start, on the whole we probably are underperforming this season, and you can see it throughout the line up. But who we are in October, isn’t who we are now, and won’t be who we are in March.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Well I hope posters don’t feel like they are being censored by a mob mentality. It’s funny cause some Stu detractors were saying that of Reddit Oilers not too long ago, that any Stu hate gets censored there. But attacking a whole swath of posters in here can have the same effect and I think some regulars around here have already bowed out. Not that I’ll ever stop saying what I think, and if anyone wants to debate what I think, go right ahead and we can hash it out.

Whoa, wait. This is probably because you're on side of the exchange but the Skinner defenders (I don't want to be using such terms and not you) Just today have referred to those not sharing their view as "insane" "clinically insane" "fools" Deranged" "they only want the team to fail so they could be right (thats the lol classic assumption) and another poster went on length that a poster here should be banned for not feeling that Skinner is adequate. (some of the worst offensive posts have been either removed today or mod edited I see)

Its incredibly myopic, your word, that you think the attacks on posters are coming from those lacking faith in Skinner.

For instance I don't recall myself calling people names, making unkind inference about their mental health or saying that posters should be banned for not following a view. All those typically harsh comments are found by posters here in the Skinner camp. They are located in THIS thread and are posts just made TODAY.

So feel free to list what Skinner critics are saying that isn't fairly specific to the player and that are ATTACKING other posters. I dare say its close to the opposite. That said I have some on ignore so possible I'm not seeing all the posts.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Well put and I couldnt agree more.

Its refreshing to see some balance in these threads and to see a few posters like yourself that arent bothered by the inevitabe label that comes with questioning the Skinner narrative on here.
Labels (like Skinner glee club et al) which are only intended to try shut down all coversation that doesnt align with the Skinner vitriol.
Its like high school all over again in here sometimes.

In the same day you're musing about the lack of quality discussion here and it being like highschool corridors you liked and replied "Exactly!" to a post that termed competing views as "insane, "clinically insane," "derangement syndrome" and that stated that the opposing views are had by "fools" You loved that post, apparently.

Whoopsie

 

[TheNumber4]

Wow, wait. This is probably because you're on side of the exchange but the Skinner defenders (I don't want to be using such terms and not you) Just today have referred to those not sharing their view as "insane" "clinically insane" "fools" "they only want the team to fail so they could be right (thats the lol classic assumption) and another poster went on length that a poster here should be banned for not feeling that Skinner is adequate. (some of the worst offensive posts have been either removed today or mod edited I see)

Its incredibly myopic, your word, that you think the attacks on posters are coming from those lacking faith in Skinner.

For instance I don't recall myself calling people names, making unkind inference about their mental health or saying that posters should be banned for not following a view. All those typically harsh comments are found by posters here in the Skinner camp. They are located in THIS thread and are posts just made TODAY.

So feel free to list what Skinner critics are saying that isn't fairly specific to the player and that are ATTACKING other posters. I dare say its close to the opposite. That said I have some on ignore so possible I'm not seeing all the posts.

Nah. As a whole, there’s been more of that stuff thrown the way at the Stu supporters from game 1 till now. I know what you are referring to though, and I’ve already told you I don’t support it but the worst of it is coming from one seemingly very angry poster that’s decided to fire back.

I think alot of it is just firing back from posters who’ve read it all year and have had enough. It’s kind of a feedback loop in that sense.

But that’s my personal view from following along since the beginning of the year, these heated debates which I’ve referred to humorously as the Skinner wars, who really knows where it started though and people will debate that point.

Either way it’s trash posting and we can both agree on that. I try to not to partake. And not every one on the other side partakes, But even liking posts of that trash nature should be viewed as partaking in the immature little personal flame war.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Nah. As a whole, there’s been more of that stuff thrown the way at the Stu supporters from game 1 till now. I know what you are referring to though, and I’ve already told you I don’t support it but the worst of it is coming from one seemingly very angry poster that’s decided to fire back.

I think alot of it is just firing back from posters who’ve read it all year and have had enough. It’s kind of a feedback loop in that sense.

But that’s my personal view from following along since the beginning of the year, these heated debates which I’ve referred to humorously as the Skinner wars, who really knows where it started though and people will debate that point.

Either way it’s trash posting and we can both agree on that. I try to not to partake. And not every one on the other side partakes, But even liking posts of that trash nature should be viewed as partaking in the immature little personal flame war.

The poster "firing back" has made posts like that for years on any player topic. Its the end of decorum, jmo, when people disagreed with and their views are just labeled "insane" or "deranged". I do agree with your premise that many posters have just left here probably not to return. I like that we can have a little back and forth and still communicate. Like I say I could be missing some of this as well due to posts I'm not seeing. Just thought your take was odd, and especially given all that went on today.

Ftr as well the poster framing "others just want the team to fail" has been posting that same stuff for years. Apparently a shtick. The poster wanting to ban other posters for their views is not a mod. Probably a good thing.

The worst I see in the firing back from critics is "Skinner glee club" and such and I see it as pushback reaction. I could see that you'd see it differently even as we share some views on trash posting.

 

[TB12]

Whoa, wait. This is probably because you're on side of the exchange but the Skinner defenders (I don't want to be using such terms and not you) Just today have referred to those not sharing their view as "insane" "clinically insane" "fools" Deranged" "they only want the team to fail so they could be right (thats the lol classic assumption) and another poster went on length that a poster here should be banned for not feeling that Skinner is adequate. (some of the worst offensive posts have been either removed today or mod edited I see)

Its incredibly myopic, your word, that you think the attacks on posters are coming from those lacking faith in Skinner.

For instance I don't recall myself calling people names, making unkind inference about their mental health or saying that posters should be banned for not following a view. All those typically harsh comments are found by posters here in the Skinner camp. They are located in THIS thread and are posts just made TODAY.

So feel free to list what Skinner critics are saying that isn't fairly specific to the player and that are ATTACKING other posters. I dare say its close to the opposite. That said I have some on ignore so possible I'm not seeing all the posts.

Like.

 

[Dieseloil]

TBH never. That said he is getting a little bit unlucky now and that should change as the season goes on.

Hmm another Boosh clown giveaway. He’s so lazy he makes me look like a workaholic.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Appreciate you posting the highlighted.
Thats exactly what I have been seeing (and occassionally posting about) for a while now. Part of my argument was that the quality of chances the Oilers do give up is like a HDSC on steroids.
The only way to know that is to actually objectively watch the game.

So the sv% stats (and the HDSC's) on their own will not tell enough of the story to paint an accurate picture.

Yeah, other teams dont give up HDSC on steroids like the Oilers do, or do the Goalies just perform better?

Not sure whos chance it was but Grubauer pretty much stoned a player with his glove that was 99% chance of being a goal, or what you'd call a HDSC on steroids.

Also stoned Draisaitl with an elevated one timer.

This whole "The oilers give up HDSC on steroids" is a myth."

If you watch enough games, the Oilers dont give up any more grade A chances than anyone else, often they give up much fewer, yet their goalies actually make the saves, meanwhile our goalies are never expected to make them because they're "HDSC on steroids"

They're not "almost unreadable". They're literally unreadable.

At least 50% of the posts on this 15-page game thread are shitting on the goaltender. Let's examine the situation:
-- the team won the game
-- the goaltender posted a .931
-- the goaltender is 10-3-1 in his past 14 games
-- the goaltender has a .923 or higher in 11 of those past 14 games

As I discussed in the previous game-day thread, Stu Skinner, over the course of his 3.5 seasons as (mostly) the main guy for Edmonton, is probably around the 20th-best goalie in the NHL. As starters go, he is neither great nor terrible -- he is average. He also won the Western Conference in the playoffs last year, and head to head had better numbers than Oettinger and Bobrovsky.

But it'll never be enough for the genius Oiler "fans" on here. They'll continually ignore his small cap hit, and the fact that he has performed way over expectations.

The level of dumb cringe by Oilers' fans on these post-game threads has reached a literally unreadable level. I will no longer be reading or contributing.

Thank god.