Draft lottery 'luck' isn't what you think it is

Satanphonehome

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Jan 4, 2015
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People have a weird take on the word "luck" around here in terms of the NHL draft lottery.

People seem to conflate the lottery with an “amount of high picks” thing. But actually it’s more about what players your lottery win gives you access to, or prevents you from accessing.

Luck doesn’t involve being good or crappy, it just means having the ping pong balls bounce in such a way that it alters the trajectory of a team.

These are the luckiest bounces ever in NHL draft lottery history:

- [ ] Edmonton in 2015, moved up 2 spots to get Connor McDavid. Enough said.

- [ ] Colorado won in 2013, jumping from 2nd to 1st to get Nate McKinnon. The alternative could have been Barkov, but more likely was Seth Jones.

- [ ] Yes, they finished last to “earn” the slot, but the 2016 Leafs still only had a 1-in-5 chance at Auston Matthews in a year with a huge drop-off to #2

- [ ] New Jersey in 2019 jumped up 3 spots to grab Jack Hughes in a year where the alternatives were not even close

- [ ] The Rangers in 2020, won not one, but two lotteries to effectively move up 15 slots to 1st overall. Yes, they squandered it by picking Alexis Lafreniere, but that’s not luck, that’s entirely on themselves.

- [ ] Carolina hit on a 3% chance in 2018 to jump from 11 to 2. Svechnikov may be step below franchise stud, but when you look at the players picked between 8 and 20 that year, this was definitely lucky. The Islanders will be hoping they’ve just followed in those footsteps, and not in those of Philly in 2017. That’s the year the Flyers went from 13 to 2 and whiffed with Nolan Patrick.

- [ ] But you don’t have to win the lottery to win the draft. In 2017, 3 teams jumped over last-pace Colorado, and the Avs came up smelling like a rose with the best player in the draft at 4, Cale Maker.

- [ ] Vancouver fell a spot in 2018 and had the best player in that draft drop into their laps. Can you imagine Canuck fans today if had stayed at 6, picked Filip Zadina and watched Quinn Hughes slide to the Rangers?



As for unlucky bounces, they are often overrated, just like the guarantee of getting a stud in the top 5 is overstated. The test of time clearly shows how that really varies from year to year. And dropping a spot or two in that range hasn’t really made much of a difference.

- [ ] The worst example of teams getting shafted by the lottery balls, may have actually been in 2017, and it didn’t affect the top teams. The Rangers and the Knights may have been ‘settling’ for Makar, Pettersson or Heiskanen instead of Cody Glass and Lias Andersson if not for the lottery pushing Dallas, Philly and New Jersey past them.

- [ ] Buffalo in 2015, dropped 1 spot to miss out on Connor McDavid. That said, the fact that Jack Eichel was a worthy #1 most other years mitigated that.

- [ ] Maybe I should feel sorry for Phoenix missing out after ‘earning’ Eichel in 2015, but I don’t, not when they took Strome over Marner.

- [ ] Detroit got jumped in 2018, but saw two reaches taken ahead of them in Hayton and Kotkaniemi. They weren’t getting Tkachuk and taking Zadina over Hughes is all on them.

- [ ] And they got jumped twice in 2020, dropping from 1st to 4th. But would they actually want Lafreniere over Raymond today? Or Byfield, or even Stutzle?

- [ ] Vancouver got jumped twice in 2017 and still ended up with Pettersson — prior to this season frequently ranked as that year’s 2nd-best player

- [ ] And I’m not going to feel sorry for the Canucks for getting jumped twice in 2016 either. Matthew Tkachuk and Keller were still on the board and they chose Juolevi.

The more recent drafts are a little harder to call because we don’t have a big enough sample size yet. Did winning the lottery in 2021 or 2022 really matter? Bedard was supposed to be a different story in 2023, and probably will be, but right now is he that much better than Fantilli and Carlsson and Michkov?

Winning — or losing — the lottery frequently doesn’t match the hype.
 
People have a weird take on the word "luck" around here in terms of the NHL draft lottery.

People seem to conflate the lottery with an “amount of high picks” thing. But actually it’s more about what players your lottery win gives you access to, or prevents you from accessing.

Luck doesn’t involve being good or crappy, it just means having the ping pong balls bounce in such a way that it alters the trajectory of a team.

These are the luckiest bounces ever in NHL draft lottery history:

- [ ] Edmonton in 2015, moved up 2 spots to get Connor McDavid. Enough said.

- [ ] Colorado won in 2013, jumping from 2nd to 1st to get Nate McKinnon. The alternative could have been Barkov, but more likely was Seth Jones.

- [ ] Yes, they finished last to “earn” the slot, but the 2016 Leafs still only had a 1-in-5 chance at Auston Matthews in a year with a huge drop-off to #2

- [ ] New Jersey in 2019 jumped up 3 spots to grab Jack Hughes in a year where the alternatives were not even close

- [ ] The Rangers in 2020, won not one, but two lotteries to effectively move up 15 slots to 1st overall. Yes, they squandered it by picking Alexis Lafreniere, but that’s not luck, that’s entirely on themselves.

- [ ] Carolina hit on a 3% chance in 2018 to jump from 11 to 2. Svechnikov may be step below franchise stud, but when you look at the players picked between 8 and 20 that year, this was definitely lucky. The Islanders will be hoping they’ve just followed in those footsteps, and not in those of Philly in 2017. That’s the year the Flyers went from 13 to 2 and whiffed with Nolan Patrick.

- [ ] But you don’t have to win the lottery to win the draft. In 2017, 3 teams jumped over last-pace Colorado, and the Avs came up smelling like a rose with the best player in the draft at 4, Cale Maker.

- [ ] Vancouver fell a spot in 2018 and had the best player in that draft drop into their laps. Can you imagine Canuck fans today if had stayed at 6, picked Filip Zadina and watched Quinn Hughes slide to the Rangers?



As for unlucky bounces, they are often overrated, just like the guarantee of getting a stud in the top 5 is overstated. The test of time clearly shows how that really varies from year to year. And dropping a spot or two in that range hasn’t really made much of a difference.

- [ ] The worst example of teams getting shafted by the lottery balls, may have actually been in 2017, and it didn’t affect the top teams. The Rangers and the Knights may have been ‘settling’ for Makar, Pettersson or Heiskanen instead of Cody Glass and Lias Andersson if not for the lottery pushing Dallas, Philly and New Jersey past them.

- [ ] Buffalo in 2015, dropped 1 spot to miss out on Connor McDavid. That said, the fact that Jack Eichel was a worthy #1 most other years mitigated that.

- [ ] Maybe I should feel sorry for Phoenix missing out after ‘earning’ Eichel in 2015, but I don’t, not when they took Strome over Marner.

- [ ] Detroit got jumped in 2018, but saw two reaches taken ahead of them in Hayton and Kotkaniemi. They weren’t getting Tkachuk and taking Zadina over Hughes is all on them.

- [ ] And they got jumped twice in 2020, dropping from 1st to 4th. But would they actually want Lafreniere over Raymond today? Or Byfield, or even Stutzle?

- [ ] Vancouver got jumped twice in 2017 and still ended up with Pettersson — prior to this season frequently ranked as that year’s 2nd-best player

- [ ] And I’m not going to feel sorry for the Canucks for getting jumped twice in 2016 either. Matthew Tkachuk and Keller were still on the board and they chose Juolevi.

The more recent drafts are a little harder to call because we don’t have a big enough sample size yet. Did winning the lottery in 2021 or 2022 really matter? Bedard was supposed to be a different story in 2023, and probably will be, but right now is he that much better than Fantilli and Carlsson and Michkov?

Winning — or losing — the lottery frequently doesn’t match the hype.
You want hype? Get rid of the draft entirely and have the teams recruit the rookies.

Would any Canadian team see another top 20 ranked prospect?

How many players would sign with their favourite team growing up? Or the team closest to them?

How many rookies can increase chances of success by finding a good fit rather than being compelled to go to a market?
 
Yeah, it’s about sucking at the right time just as much as it is winning the lottery.

Luck is too much of a factor here. Edmonton hasn’t had a competent management group in almost 40 years but they just so happened to fall flat on their face when McDavid was 17 years old.
 
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Here's another one that might not meet your perceptions:

These are all the teams that have an overall net gain in draft slots from the lottery over the years, and how many slots they've gained:
  • Rangers +17
  • New Jersey +12
  • Chicago +11
  • Carolina +8
  • Islanders +6
  • Philadelphia +6
  • Dallas +5
  • Winnipeg +2
  • Utah +1
(I haven't double-checked the math, so please point out any mistakes and I'll correct them.)

Most of the Rangers total is a result of the Lafreniere draft, the biggest leap in lottery history. Carolina and Philly each come from one big leap.
 
Last edited:
Here's another one that might not meet your perceptions:

These are all the teams that have an overall net gain in draft slots from the lottery over the years, and how many slots they've gained:
  • Rangers +17
  • New Jersey +12
  • Chicago +11
  • Islanders +8
  • Carolina +8
  • Philadelphia +6
  • Dallas +5
  • Winnipeg +2
  • Utah +1
(I haven't double-checked the math, so please point out any mistakes and I'll correct them.) Most of the Rangers total is a result of the Lafreniere draft, the biggest leap in lottery history.
Serious question, did you use ChatGPT for this?
 
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And here's the other side of coin, the teams that have dropped the most spots:

  • Los Angeles -3
  • Vegas -3
  • Anaheim -5
  • Buffalo -9
  • Ottawa -9
  • Detroit -9
  • Vancouver -9
Only time Vegas was ever in the lottery, they dropped three spots and ended up with Cody Glass. Guess they aren't lucky in everything.
:DD
 
Edmonton has won the lottery three times, but New Jersey has won two lotteries outright, won the number two slot in another, and moved up the maximum 4 slots to #4 after winning in 2011. (Which allowed Edmonton to hang on to #1)
 
There’s definitely luck involved in the draft but it just takes years to find out which teams were lucky. Draft night wins are usually just seeing who went at what spot and comparing it to the consensus. However, it takes years to find out who did well in the draft. The consensus isn’t always right
 
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If you want lottery luck…have them cancel your all star game right before the lottery.
 
People have a weird take on the word "luck" around here in terms of the NHL draft lottery.

People seem to conflate the lottery with an “amount of high picks” thing. But actually it’s more about what players your lottery win gives you access to, or prevents you from accessing.

Luck doesn’t involve being good or crappy, it just means having the ping pong balls bounce in such a way that it alters the trajectory of a team.

These are the luckiest bounces ever in NHL draft lottery history:

- [ ] Edmonton in 2015, moved up 2 spots to get Connor McDavid. Enough said.

- [ ] Colorado won in 2013, jumping from 2nd to 1st to get Nate McKinnon. The alternative could have been Barkov, but more likely was Seth Jones.

- [ ] Yes, they finished last to “earn” the slot, but the 2016 Leafs still only had a 1-in-5 chance at Auston Matthews in a year with a huge drop-off to #2

- [ ] New Jersey in 2019 jumped up 3 spots to grab Jack Hughes in a year where the alternatives were not even close

- [ ] The Rangers in 2020, won not one, but two lotteries to effectively move up 15 slots to 1st overall. Yes, they squandered it by picking Alexis Lafreniere, but that’s not luck, that’s entirely on themselves.

- [ ] Carolina hit on a 3% chance in 2018 to jump from 11 to 2. Svechnikov may be step below franchise stud, but when you look at the players picked between 8 and 20 that year, this was definitely lucky. The Islanders will be hoping they’ve just followed in those footsteps, and not in those of Philly in 2017. That’s the year the Flyers went from 13 to 2 and whiffed with Nolan Patrick.

- [ ] But you don’t have to win the lottery to win the draft. In 2017, 3 teams jumped over last-pace Colorado, and the Avs came up smelling like a rose with the best player in the draft at 4, Cale Maker.

- [ ] Vancouver fell a spot in 2018 and had the best player in that draft drop into their laps. Can you imagine Canuck fans today if had stayed at 6, picked Filip Zadina and watched Quinn Hughes slide to the Rangers?



As for unlucky bounces, they are often overrated, just like the guarantee of getting a stud in the top 5 is overstated. The test of time clearly shows how that really varies from year to year. And dropping a spot or two in that range hasn’t really made much of a difference.

- [ ] The worst example of teams getting shafted by the lottery balls, may have actually been in 2017, and it didn’t affect the top teams. The Rangers and the Knights may have been ‘settling’ for Makar, Pettersson or Heiskanen instead of Cody Glass and Lias Andersson if not for the lottery pushing Dallas, Philly and New Jersey past them.

- [ ] Buffalo in 2015, dropped 1 spot to miss out on Connor McDavid. That said, the fact that Jack Eichel was a worthy #1 most other years mitigated that.

- [ ] Maybe I should feel sorry for Phoenix missing out after ‘earning’ Eichel in 2015, but I don’t, not when they took Strome over Marner.

- [ ] Detroit got jumped in 2018, but saw two reaches taken ahead of them in Hayton and Kotkaniemi. They weren’t getting Tkachuk and taking Zadina over Hughes is all on them.

- [ ] And they got jumped twice in 2020, dropping from 1st to 4th. But would they actually want Lafreniere over Raymond today? Or Byfield, or even Stutzle?

- [ ] Vancouver got jumped twice in 2017 and still ended up with Pettersson — prior to this season frequently ranked as that year’s 2nd-best player

- [ ] And I’m not going to feel sorry for the Canucks for getting jumped twice in 2016 either. Matthew Tkachuk and Keller were still on the board and they chose Juolevi.

The more recent drafts are a little harder to call because we don’t have a big enough sample size yet. Did winning the lottery in 2021 or 2022 really matter? Bedard was supposed to be a different story in 2023, and probably will be, but right now is he that much better than Fantilli and Carlsson and Michkov?

Winning — or losing — the lottery frequently doesn’t match the hype.
There’s no luck. Just the league “fixing” it like usual.
 
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This is what unlucky looks like.

Barzal, Chabot, Kyle Connor, Boeser, Konecny, and Aho were all available.

boston-bruin-2015-draft.png
 
This is what unlucky looks like.

Barzal, Chabot, Kyle Connor, Boeser, Konecny, and Aho were all available.

boston-bruin-2015-draft.png
No, that’s what poor preparation looks like. Because even at that draft, analysts were confused why the Bruins went with those players given the players still available. It was a head scratcher then and absolutely hilarious now.
 
People are stupid and think everything is rigged cause they can’t set themselves strait; grow up and boo on yourselves instead of crying about an athletic league.

The NHL isn’t perfect but who is?
 
speaking of luck, what were the actual odds of both the Islanders and Utah winning both draws? They were like 3% each

edit: 1 in 922 chance according to grok.
 
n
People are stupid and think everything is rigged cause they can’t set themselves strait; grow up and boo on yourselves instead of crying about an athletic league.

The NHL isn’t perfect but who is?
No one is asking for perfection. Just asking for them to not be incompetent dumb f***s and they still keep finding ways to surprise us. Whether it’s punishing teams in the weakest way imaginable for hiding a sexual assault, allowing rapists and racists to play in the league or punishing a team for holding a workout harder than hiding the assault that took place and allowing that sick f*** to go molest someone underage.

The draft, it does nothing to deter teams from continuing to tank to hoard top 5 picks. There’s ways to fix that and they refuse to.
 
You want hype? Get rid of the draft entirely and have the teams recruit the rookies.

Would any Canadian team see another top 20 ranked prospect?

How many players would sign with their favourite team growing up? Or the team closest to them?

How many rookies can increase chances of success by finding a good fit rather than being compelled to go to a market?
So you want to only see big market american cities get success and other teams get screwed? Why would Canadian teams go for such garbage? Unless you want to league to contract to 16 teams because you know damn well teams.like Nashville, Columbus, Utah, Buffallo, Ottawa, Calgary etc. Arent going to survive.
 
n

No one is asking for perfection. Just asking for them to not be incompetent dumb f***s and they still keep finding ways to surprise us. Whether it’s punishing teams in the weakest way imaginable for hiding a sexual assault, allowing rapists and racists to play in the league or punishing a team for holding a workout harder than hiding the assault that took place and allowing that sick f*** to go molest someone underage.

The draft, it does nothing to deter teams from continuing to tank to hoard top 5 picks. There’s ways to fix that and they refuse to.
Wasn’t getting into it that deep, just making a comment on how so many think the draft is rigged.

Of course a GM here and there sell out early in a season to try and get a top pick but it’s a business and when a GM knows his team isn’t going to go anywhere in a season he sells so he can get prospects, picks, etc… it’s not necessarily tanking.
 
No, this is what incompetency looks like.

Unless you mean the other teams were lucky the Bruins went off the board giving up those guys.
I don’t even remember where these guys were relative to their draft rankings.

Although I do recall Senyshyn was an off the board pick. Zboril was around that 12-20 range. Not sure about Jake.
 
the ducks have fallen or stayed in their original spot in every lottery they've been a part of with the exception of the weird 2005 lottery when they moved up
 
I don’t even remember where these guys were relative to their draft rankings. Although I do recall Senyshyn was an off the board pick.

If you just took Mckenzie's rankings, an aggregation of scouting reports and effectively "the board", the best available players were Barzal (ranked 9), Connor (ranked 13) and Zboril (ranked 14).

Debrusk was ranked 28th and Senyshyn was ranked 40th.
 

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