Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19

[Ghost of jas]

Do you truly believe that there is no scenario where Clarke goes with yet another off board pick?

I didn't see one in the 1st round this year.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Is it crazy to think that Kakko could challenge Hughes? Will be interesting to watch this year for sure.

 

[True Blue]

I didn't see one in the 1st round this year.

As we have seen, a player need not even be on any publications draft board to get drafted fairly early.

 

[Ghost of jas]

As we have seen, a player need not even be on any publications draft board to get drafted fairly early.

Which player is that?

 

[True Blue]

Which player is that?

Being a bit facetious here Jas, but where was Lindboom ranked?

The goalie thing was tongue and cheek. The main point that I was making, is that no matter what rankings show, even with lottery, Clarke has seemed to have fallen in love with going off board. As such, I believe there is every chance he does it again next year.

 

[Mac n Gs]

It’s a shame Newhook is gonna be in the BCHL because I’d love to watch him more frequently. The kid looked electric in video from the U17s

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Kakko is a more complete player than Laine, but lacks that elite snipe. I think Kakko could go 1st overall if he has a good year in Liiga. He was flat out dominating the Jnr A SM-Liiga (an u20 league) at the age of 16

Laine is a pretty complete player. 28 and 26 assists his first two seasons. He's quite skilled, can definitely playmake, very good at protecting the puck, and a smart player. I think his goal-scoring makes people think he's only a goal scorer. He's better than Ovechkin was in all-around offense. And his defense has come around the past season. Kakko doesn't have an elite shot and like Laine has, he's not a very explosive skater.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Being a bit facetious here Jas, but where was Lindboom ranked?

The goalie thing was tongue and cheek. The main point that I was making, is that no matter what rankings show, even with lottery, Clarke has seemed to have fallen in love with going off board. As such, I believe there is every chance he does it again next year.

You're not the only who's made that joke. And I hated taking a goalie in the 2nd round. But, Kravytsov was no surprise to me. I said he could be be the pick at 9 if who they like wasn't there. Now, it's appears they probably take him even higher. But, he's just about everything people who were afraid the Rangers would draft safe on that pick would want. He has a high ceiling, as do Miller and Lundkvist. I expect more the same with our three 1st round picks next year,

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I want to know what they fed him as a child in order for him to be this size at 17. Could end up at 6'6?

Its an incorrect listing. He's 6'2.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Is it crazy to think that Kakko could challenge Hughes? Will be interesting to watch this year for sure.

No one's going to challenge Hughes. He's going to go #1, just like Laine never really had a chance to challenge Matthews. Laine outplayed Matthews during that season, but Matthews as #1 was assured as long as he didn't have a terrible season, suffer a significant injury that threatens his career or do anything extremely dumb.

As for what should happen, I think its an open debate, and there's no clear top prospect going into the season. I think you could make an argument for like 7-8 players right now.

 

[Ghost of jas]

No one's going to challenge Hughes. He's going to go #1, just like Laine never really had a chance to challenge Matthews. Laine outplayed Matthews during that season, but Matthews as #1 was assured as long as he didn't have a terrible season, suffer a significant injury that threatens his career or do anything extremely dumb.

As for what should happen, I think its an open debate, and there's no clear top prospect going into the season. I think you could make an argument for like 7-8 players right now.

The Hughes hype train is very strong right now. God forbid this team getting #1 and not taking Hughes.

 

[Mac n Gs]

No one's going to challenge Hughes. He's going to go #1, just like Laine never really had a chance to challenge Matthews. Laine outplayed Matthews during that season, but Matthews as #1 was assured as long as he didn't have a terrible season, suffer a significant injury that threatens his career or do anything extremely dumb.

As for what should happen, I think its an open debate, and there's no clear top prospect going into the season. I think you could make an argument for like 7-8 players right now.

MATTHEWS > LAINE DON’T @ ME

I am curious why you like Turcotte more than Hughes, even if I think they’re the clear 1-2 in this draft

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You actually lead into my opinion pretty well. Unless I am getting a 50 goal scorer like Ovechkin or Laine who will lead their generation in goals, I'm taking the C over the W, if its close.

Winning Championships: Toews/Bergeron>Kane/Gaudreau

Hughes will score me 85-90 points per season. Thats great, but he'll do it with no better than average defense, and he'll almost certainly do it from the wing. No physical presence, completely from the perimeter. I'll take a 1C who might score 15-20 points less on average per season, but will definitely play center, and will play it at a well above-average level defensively. This team does not need anymore scoring wingers. We are good between Kravtsov, Buchnevich, Kreider and likely also Chytil. We need a 1C and a 1D. I didn't want to draft Kravtsov or Wahlstrom or Farabee. I wanted us to draft Kotkaniemi or Boqvist or Dobson or Wilde. What does another scoring winger do for our rebuild when our blue line sucks and we have no elite player down the middle?

I said it the other day. I think there are like 7-10 players in this draft who could project as a #1C or #1D, but its dependent on how their game develops. Turcotte, Krebs, Cozens, Dach, Zegras, Guskov, Newhook among C's. Byram, Soderstrom among D's. I want to see how their games develop. Its so early to say for sure how it'll play out. In my rankings, their draft spot is dependent on them. Hughes is dependent on how they do. If any of them project as 1's, Hughes will be behind them. If not, he'll be ahead. Right now, the only one that I think definitely projects as a 1 is Turcotte.

A lot of people were talking about Zadina ahead of Svechnikov this past season, but the only players I debated ahead of Svechnikov all season were Kotkaniemi and Boqvist. If I could be sure they were 1's, they would've been ahead of Svechnikov. But I couldn't, so I didn't put them ahead. Zadina over Svevchnikov is over-analyzation in the same way Kakko over Hughes would be over-analyzation. What would not be over-analyzation in my opinion is deciding that centers and defensemen are more valuable than wingers, and therefore we have to see how these players develop. I'll take heat for it, but I'll stick consistent with my position. A Patrick Kane style scoring winger is not going to be an easy 1OA without being contested, unless the draft is just so absolutely terrible with no top-end talent. And thats not what this draft is.

 

[QJL]

I'm definitely going to keep an eye on Cole Caufield. He's undersized but he looks like he could be the top goal scoring winger in this draft. 44 goals in 40 games for the U17 team and 10 in 19 for the U18 team in limited playing time. If he grows to 5'9 or 5'10 he'll be a real player to watch for in the top 10.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Wait, PB, you see Hughes as a winger? That’s actually really surprising because I don’t think he’s done growing and, he’s already bigger than Quinn.

 

[Edge]

I’ll go on record now and say there’s virtually no way Hughes plays at the wing over center as a pro.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Wait, PB, you see Hughes as a winger? That’s actually really surprising because I don’t think he’s done growing and, he’s already bigger than Quinn.

Yes, why would he be a center? He plays nothing like a center. And we see all these similar style players, Kane, Marner, Keller, Drouin pre-Habs all ended up playing the wing, despite playing center prior to getting to the NHL. There’s a different standard for playing the middle of the ice in junior compared to pro. There could always be a team like the Habs that insists playing him at center, but I think you will take away a lot of his value by exposing him that way.

 

[brians1128]

You actually lead into my opinion pretty well. Unless I am getting a 50 goal scorer like Ovechkin or Laine who will lead their generation in goals, I'm taking the C over the W, if its close.

Winning Championships: Toews/Bergeron>Kane/Gaudreau

Hughes will score me 85-90 points per season. Thats great, but he'll do it with no better than average defense, and he'll almost certainly do it from the wing. No physical presence, completely from the perimeter. I'll take a 1C who might score 15-20 points less on average per season, but will definitely play center, and will play it at a well above-average level defensively. This team does not need anymore scoring wingers. We are good between Kravtsov, Buchnevich, Kreider and likely also Chytil. We need a 1C and a 1D. I didn't want to draft Kravtsov or Wahlstrom or Farabee. I wanted us to draft Kotkaniemi or Boqvist or Dobson or Wilde. What does another scoring winger do for our rebuild when our blue line sucks and we have no elite player down the middle?

I said it the other day. I think there are like 7-10 players in this draft who could project as a #1C or #1D, but its dependent on how their game develops. Turcotte, Krebs, Cozens, Dach, Zegras, Guskov, Newhook among C's. Byram, Soderstrom among D's. I want to see how their games develop. Its so early to say for sure how it'll play out. In my rankings, their draft spot is dependent on them. Hughes is dependent on how they do. If any of them project as 1's, Hughes will be behind them. If not, he'll be ahead. Right now, the only one that I think definitely projects as a 1 is Turcotte.

A lot of people were talking about Zadina ahead of Svechnikov this past season, but the only players I debated ahead of Svechnikov all season were Kotkaniemi and Boqvist. If I could be sure they were 1's, they would've been ahead of Svechnikov. But I couldn't, so I didn't put them ahead. Zadina over Svevchnikov is over-analyzation in the same way Kakko over Hughes would be over-analyzation. What would not be over-analyzation in my opinion is deciding that centers and defensemen are more valuable than wingers, and therefore we have to see how these players develop. I'll take heat for it, but I'll stick consistent with my position. A Patrick Kane style scoring winger is not going to be an easy 1OA without being contested, unless the draft is just so absolutely terrible with no top-end talent. And thats not what this draft is.

Setting myself up for the failure, trade zuc at deadline, Tampa wins the cup. Rangers move up the second pick, Rangers win the lottery, Zegras is there at 31, end up with Turcotte, Soderstrom, Zegras.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Setting myself up for the failure, trade zuc at deadline, Tampa wins the cup. Rangers move up the second pick, Rangers win the lottery, Zegras is there at 31, end up with Turcotte, Soderstrom, Zegras.

That would be great. We might finally have a roster that has all the needed ingredients, but I don't think Zegras is going to be a second rounder.

I thought I was high on him, and he was going to fly under the radar to everyone except me, and then Pronman and Kournianos come out with lists that have him higher than I did. Unless the depth of his team really squashes his role, I don't think he'll be kept out of the top 15.

 

[RangerBlues]

You actually lead into my opinion pretty well. Unless I am getting a 50 goal scorer like Ovechkin or Laine who will lead their generation in goals, I'm taking the C over the W, if its close.

Winning Championships: Toews/Bergeron>Kane/Gaudreau

Hughes will score me 85-90 points per season. Thats great, but he'll do it with no better than average defense, and he'll almost certainly do it from the wing. No physical presence, completely from the perimeter. I'll take a 1C who might score 15-20 points less on average per season, but will definitely play center, and will play it at a well above-average level defensively. This team does not need anymore scoring wingers. We are good between Kravtsov, Buchnevich, Kreider and likely also Chytil. We need a 1C and a 1D. I didn't want to draft Kravtsov or Wahlstrom or Farabee. I wanted us to draft Kotkaniemi or Boqvist or Dobson or Wilde. What does another scoring winger do for our rebuild when our blue line sucks and we have no elite player down the middle?

I said it the other day. I think there are like 7-10 players in this draft who could project as a #1C or #1D, but its dependent on how their game develops. Turcotte, Krebs, Cozens, Dach, Zegras, Guskov, Newhook among C's. Byram, Soderstrom among D's. I want to see how their games develop. Its so early to say for sure how it'll play out. In my rankings, their draft spot is dependent on them. Hughes is dependent on how they do. If any of them project as 1's, Hughes will be behind them. If not, he'll be ahead. Right now, the only one that I think definitely projects as a 1 is Turcotte.

A lot of people were talking about Zadina ahead of Svechnikov this past season, but the only players I debated ahead of Svechnikov all season were Kotkaniemi and Boqvist. If I could be sure they were 1's, they would've been ahead of Svechnikov. But I couldn't, so I didn't put them ahead. Zadina over Svevchnikov is over-analyzation in the same way Kakko over Hughes would be over-analyzation. What would not be over-analyzation in my opinion is deciding that centers and defensemen are more valuable than wingers, and therefore we have to see how these players develop. I'll take heat for it, but I'll stick consistent with my position. A Patrick Kane style scoring winger is not going to be an easy 1OA without being contested, unless the draft is just so absolutely terrible with no top-end talent. And thats not what this draft is.

Ill take the consistent 80+ point seasons.
I can find plenty of grinders to play D

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Ill take the consistent 80+ point seasons.
I can find plenty of grinders to play D

No one mentioned grinders.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Yes, why would he be a center? He plays nothing like a center. And we see all these similar style players, Kane, Marner, Keller, Drouin pre-Habs all ended up playing the wing, despite playing center prior to getting to the NHL. There’s a different standard for playing the middle of the ice in junior compared to pro. There could always be a team like the Habs that insists playing him at center, but I think you will take away a lot of his value by exposing him that way.

Same reason it works for a guy like McDavid? He has electrifying speed up the middle and insane playmaking skills, while making everyone around him better. I think you may be one of the only people that see otherwise, even if you’ve made a reasoned argument.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Same reason it works for a guy like McDavid? He has electrifying speed up the middle and insane playmaking skills, while making everyone around him better. I think you may be one of the only people that see otherwise, even if you’ve made a reasoned argument.

McDavid is a generational player, he’s considerably bigger and he plays better north to south. He’s also good defensively, which Hughes is not.

And there are actually a lot who agree with me. Take a look at his prospect thread. I would say most people believe he’s a winger.

 

[Mac n Gs]

McDavid is a generational player, he’s considerably bigger and he plays better north to south. He’s also good defensively, which Hughes is not.

And there are actually a lot who agree with me. Take a look at his prospect thread. I would say most people believe he’s a winger.

And Hughes just had the best U17 season in USDP history, most of which I would attribute to having that ability to control the flow of the game going north-south.

Let's re-visit this throughout the year and chime in as we watch him in his draft year. His size and weight are going to increase, so it's not worth devoting a lot of time to it now. A kid like Barzal has already added 15 pounds since his draft year. Pettersson is still a beanpole, but I'm not using it against him right now because his play transcends his size issues. I see Hughes in the same light, especially with how the game is transitioning more towards speed and skill.

 

[True Blue]

You're not the only who's made that joke. And I hated taking a goalie in the 2nd round. But, Kravytsov was no surprise to me. I said he could be be the pick at 9 if who they like wasn't there. Now, it's appears they probably take him even higher. But, he's just about everything people who were afraid the Rangers would draft safe on that pick would want. He has a high ceiling, as do Miller and Lundkvist. I expect more the same with our three 1st round picks next year,

See, not sure I agree. If "safe" was the goal, then why not draft Dobson? Kravystov is a bit risky of a pick. I know he was the shadow pick and not completely out of left field, but still. Gorton, Clark & Co. have set themselves up as either seers that can see what others cannot or people that fell in love with things that were not really there.

The goalie in the second round is the one that truly got to me. How could that have been the pick with Wilde and Thomas were available? I think that this draft looks a whole lot different if the Rangers could have got one of those two. Heck, make a trade get back into the second round and try to take both of them. To take a goalie that was on no one's radar, when first round talent was available has really jaded me on Clark.

Hopefully, this is a case where they saw things no one else did on many of these prospects and I will be VERY happy to eat crow. But, and this is the jaded long time Rangers fan in me speaking, if there is a way this franchise can screw up a deep draft, it will do it. 1 Cup in 77 years tells me this.

Part of this is, of course, is that I was away during the draft and cold not partkae in the overall blood-curdling cries.