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Prospect Info: Draft 2025: Is it too late to tank? Asking for a friend

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chethejet said:
Pens need a center out of this. If Rangers pick is available as Rangers decide that they do not want to risk an unprotected lottery pick going to the Pens in 2026. O'Brien is my pick and then Martin if Rangers surrender said pick. I still think Dubas want more high end talent and will make moves at the draft to get that caliber of talent in the draft. He has picks to trade in 2026 to move up. Pens need a couple really good centers and go from there. Ekland is a physical winger and is not a typical Euro as to his play. If my wants are gone, he is a good get here.
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O'Brien and Martin would be fantastic under the circumstances! I'd be all for that if we finish where we are currently and the Rags do as well.
 
eXile3 said:
I think people are missing the second we draft one of those players they become the best prospect we have in our system. Probably the best we’ve had since Staal.
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100%! That's why getting up to the 8th spot (or staying there is so important). We need to get one of those (potential) difference makers if possible.
 
It may actually be a legitimate discussion for the NYR on whether to give us that pick or not. Fun!

If we don't get that pick, I am starting to really lean into the idea that I mentioned yesterday of using additional draft capital to upgrade that late 2nd to an early second. I think there are a couple guys right in and around that 30-40 mark that would be worth the chance. I've mentioned Cole McKinney several times, I think he'd be a great prospect to add to the system, even if we take a center with the 1st. I think he turns into a quality two-way 3C which are super tough to come by.

Boumedienne could fall to that slot as could Ryabkin. Shane Vansaghi and Jakob Ihs-Wozniak are two others that I might look at to bring a bit of balance to our pool. They aren't lightning past but both play a heavy forechecking game and have good size. I'm looking for that Hyman, Perry, Wilson like prospect that can complement a line well given how impactful guys like Bennett and Tkachuk are in the playoffs.
 
We need BUF to win or at least get a point tonight (three points in their next two games). They host both TOR and PHI. Very important if we win on thursday.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
O'Brien and Mrtka going early and allowing Martone to slide to the Penguins would be amazing. I'll believe it when I see it, though.
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I feel like CS used to be more “accurate” with how the draft went? Maybe I’m just imagining it

But last year their list was very different than both McKenzie’s and the actual draft order.
 
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It's tough to tell if Martone is dropping or if the others are rising.

Him dropping to us at say 8 would be wild. That could easily be 2016-ish all over again with the likes of Laine, PLD, Puljujarvi and Juolevi going ahead of Matthew Tkachuk.
 
DesertedPenguin said:
Final draft rankings from NHL Central Scouting.


Schaefer, Misa, Hagens, O'Brian, Mrtka are the top five North American skaters.

Frondell, Eklund, Gastrin, Cihar, Zharovsky lead international skaters.
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I wish they just put them all on one list, particularly at the end of the season.

I just hope we don't go below 8th. But we really need BUF to come through just like they did in 1990!
 
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SEALBound said:
It's tough to tell if Martone is dropping or if the others are rising.

Him dropping to us at say 8 would be wild. That could easily be 2016-ish all over again with the likes of Laine, PLD, Puljujarvi and Juolevi going ahead of Matthew Tkachuk.
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Any of Martone, Desnoyers, Ekulnd or O'Brien would be fantastic relative to where I suspect we'll pick.
 
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CheckingLineCenter said:
I feel like CS used to be more “accurate” with how the draft went? Maybe I’m just imagining it

But last year their list was very different than both McKenzie’s and the actual draft order.
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The rankings last year were:

NA:

1. Celebrini (#1 overall)
2. Levshunov (#2 overall)
3. Lindstrom (#4 overall)
4. Buium (#12 overall)
5. Parekh (#9 overall)
6. Connelly (#19 overall)
7. Dickinson (#11 overall)
8. Catton (#8 overall)
9. Iginla (#6 overall)
10. Hage (#21 overall)
11. Yakemchuk (#7 overall)
12. Eiserman (#20 overall)
13. Sennecke (#3 overall)
14. Greentree (#26 overall)
15. Parascak (#17 overall)
16. Boisvert (#18 overall)
17. Vanacker (#27 overall)
18. Miettinen
19. Ritchie
20. Luchanko

International:

1. Silayev (#10 overall)
2. Demidov (#5 overall)
3. Helenius (#14 overall)
4. Jiricek (#16 overall)
5. Brandsegg-Nygard (#15 overall)
6. Hemming (#29 overall)

This generally looks pretty good. There were definitely some reaches in the 1st round like Surin and Solberg, but every NA player drafted in the 1st round was ranked in the top-40 among NA skaters. The international rankings weren't as good, but the worst one I can see is Aron Kiviharju (#8 ranked international skater) going #122 to Minnesota.
 
Also it's kinda wild that this draft may only have 2 players out of Europe drafted in round 1. Gastrin is ranked as a late 1st/early 2nd, but Cihar and Zharovsky look pretty firmly like 2nd rounders. It almost feels like this draft is so weak because there is so much less Euro talent in it than normal.
 
Gurglesons said:
Me sitting over here prayin that Boston takes Mrtka.
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They are taking one of Hagens, Frondell, Desoyers or O'brien if they don't win the lottery.

My worry is there won't be a center there at #8 so I'm hoping they get to #7 and even then...

I mentioned before I can see the centers going like ducks in a row after Schaefer.
 
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I won't really care at all if all of the centers go before the Penguins draft pick if it means the Penguins can get Martone with their pick.

Without a lottery win, what I'm hoping for is Nashville takes Frondell, Boston takes Hagens, Philly takes Desnoyers and Seattle takes Mrtka. That lets the Penguins pick between Martone, O'Brien and Eklund for who they want, or 2 of those 3 if they're picking #8.

I know teams don't draft based on need, but Seattle taking O'Brien would be odd with how many centers they've drafted in the past couple of years. I'd guess Martone or Eklund over Mrtka for them, but Mrtka wouldn't surprise me either especially since he plays for the Thunderbirds.
 
We're in 8th, however the Ducks are tied with us. They blew a 2-0 lead with under ten mins to go SUN against an undermanned COL crew. Strong possibility they move up if we beat the Capitals, who are absolute junk right now.

What's more likely, we beat the Caps? Or, Anaheim beats one of the Wild or Jets on the road? I don't like our chances there.

We need BUF to rescue us from 9th.
 
Martone falling is a fit here. But if Rangers don't want the pick this year, then Martin and Martone is still a really good draft at the top. I still think Dubas will be very active here and make deals to bring in high end talent..
 
Empoleon8771 said:
The rankings last year were:

NA:

1. Celebrini (#1 overall)
2. Levshunov (#2 overall)
3. Lindstrom (#4 overall)
4. Buium (#12 overall)
5. Parekh (#9 overall)
6. Connelly (#19 overall)
7. Dickinson (#11 overall)
8. Catton (#8 overall)
9. Iginla (#6 overall)
10. Hage (#21 overall)
11. Yakemchuk (#7 overall)
12. Eiserman (#20 overall)
13. Sennecke (#3 overall)
14. Greentree (#26 overall)
15. Parascak (#17 overall)
16. Boisvert (#18 overall)
17. Vanacker (#27 overall)
18. Miettinen
19. Ritchie
20. Luchanko

International:

1. Silayev (#10 overall)
2. Demidov (#5 overall)
3. Helenius (#14 overall)
4. Jiricek (#16 overall)
5. Brandsegg-Nygard (#15 overall)
6. Hemming (#29 overall)

This generally looks pretty good. There were definitely some reaches in the 1st round like Surin and Solberg, but every NA player drafted in the 1st round was ranked in the top-40 among NA skaters. The international rankings weren't as good, but the worst one I can see is Aron Kiviharju (#8 ranked international skater) going #122 to Minnesota.
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Sennecke alone should be the reminder that rankings vs actual draft order are a bit of a crap shoot because it's likely that 32 teams have 32 different rankings. Iginla is a good reason to believe that Martone won't drop that much.

But comparing old rankings to actual draft order really fires up the ol fantasy machine, especially if the Rags transfer us the pick and it's in the 11-15ov range.

Schaeffer, Misa, Hagens, Martone, McQueen, JOB, Mrtka, Frondell, Desnoyers, Smith, Eklund. If we get 8 and 11 for example.
Ugene Magic said:
They are taking one of Hagens, Frondell, Desoyers or O'brien if they don't win the lottery.

My worry is there won't be a center there at #8 so I'm hoping they get to #7 and even then...

I mentioned before I can see the centers going like ducks in a row after Schaefer.
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Schaeffer, Misa, Hagens, Frondell, Desnoyers, JOB, then McQueen. That leaves Martone, Eklund, and even Lakovic but Martone in that case would be a major win.
 
Couple of Pronman and Wheeler notes from the Athletic article talking about the CS rankings:

-O'Brien's rise to the top-5 aligns with what Pronman has heard, but he's not quite sure if he's a top-5 pick yet. Mentioned that O'Brien's trajectory reminds him of Sennecke's last year
-Desnoyers is being underrated in Pronman's view, he thinks Desnoyers will be a top-5 pick in the draft (I think Philly takes him at #5)
-Martone's slip is due to concerns with his skating along with his mediocre end of season performance.

I didn't actually realized how much Martone had cooled off in the second half of the season. Martone finished the year with 98 points in 57 games, but he was at 56 points in 28 games on January 9th. 42 points in 29 games to end the year is a pretty sizable step back from his torrid pace at the start of the year, I didn't notice he had that kind of drop off.

Now compare that to O'Brien, he had 98 points in 66 games this year but was at 50 points in 39 games on January 9th. That's 48 points in 27 games for O'Brien to finish the year. With O'Brien being a center and finishing the season better (although Martone has been better in the playoffs), I actually think it wouldn't be that surprising for O'Brien to go before Martone in the draft.

Either way, I'm starting to think that O'Brien at #7 wouldn't be a reach for him and he may even end up going before that. I'm curious if O'Brien is the guy that ends up going to Nashville or Boston to push Martone out of the top-5, rather than Frondell.
 
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SEALBound said:
Sennecke alone should be the reminder that rankings vs actual draft order are a bit of a crap shoot because it's likely that 32 teams have 32 different rankings. Iginla is a good reason to believe that Martone won't drop that much.

But comparing old rankings to actual draft order really fires up the ol fantasy machine, especially if the Rags transfer us the pick and it's in the 11-15ov range.

Schaeffer, Misa, Hagens, Martone, McQueen, JOB, Mrtka, Frondell, Desnoyers, Smith, Eklund. If we get 8 and 11 for example.

Schaeffer, Misa, Hagens, Frondell, Desnoyers, JOB, then McQueen. That leaves Martone, Eklund, and even Lakovic but Martone in that case would be a major win.
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No to McQueen no to Lakovic with our highest pick! If we pick 9th we could get screwed.
 
Ryder71 said:
No to McQueen no to Lakovic with our highest pick! If we pick 9th we could get screwed.
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Lol, you're moving the goal posts a bit there. What if we draft 10th? or 11th!? gasp what about 12th!??

Yeah, there's an obvious decline in the quality of the prospect as you move down.

I think as long as we draft within the top 9, we will get a decent player. That includes McQueen.
 
SEALBound said:
Lol, you're moving the goal posts a bit there. What if we draft 10th? or 11th!? gasp what about 12th!??

Yeah, there's an obvious decline in the quality of the prospect as you move down.

I think as long as we draft within the top 9, we will get a decent player. That includes McQueen.
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I'm not moving the goal posts in the slightest! What are you talking about?

I have said for the last month or so that I don't want McQueen considering his injury. I've never once wavered from that position with our 1st pick. Where did I move the goal posts?
 
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