Prospect Info: Draft 2025: Is it too late to tank? Asking for a friend

[Ryder71]

O’Brien’s an interesting skater. He has a posture that isn’t super efficient for skating but it keeps him available to make a play when he has the puck. His upper body and hands are always “at the ready” but it keeps him a bit rigid. Kind of a trade off I guess. Thornton did something similar, I think Ron Francis was like that too.

If we can't get Eklund or Desnoyer, O'Brien would be the guy I want.

Be very happy with any one of the three to be honest. Just depends where we draft if it's even possible. Let's hope so.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm still hoping some teams above the Pens end up taking McQueen, Desnoyers and Frondell a bit "early" and somebody like Martone or Hagens falls into their lap at like 6th or 7th. We still have to wait and see how the lotto pans out too, got a gut feeling the Pens may drop a spot or two.

 

[Jared Grayden]

I'm still hoping some teams above the Pens end up taking McQueen, Desnoyers and Frondell a bit "early" and somebody like Martone or Hagens falls into their lap at like 6th or 7th. We still have to wait and see how the lotto pans out too, got a gut feeling the Pens may drop a spot or two.

I doubt it with McQueen due to the injury issue. But I think you'll see positional needs like centers in Frondell and Desnoyers along with right defense (Mrtka) go earlier than expected.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Trying to watch Desnoyer highlights but I'm not getting much out of them besides how shit the Q looks. He looks ok, I guess. Nothing about what I saw screams top of the draft talent. Now watch him be the next Mike Richards or something

Those were pretty much my exact thoughts as well. But I don't know much.

I find that league is so terrible it’s hard to tell. But he looks kinda mid imo

Someone said he’s getting NCAA interest for next season. Would be easier to get a read on him there if he is the pick.

I also just don’t like center prospects that don’t actually play C lmao

 

[Guins71]

I was high early on O’Brien but have cooled considerably. Don’t like him like yall do. I really worry about his escapism because of how he wants to slow it down and be a passer. Could he fill out and change that? Sure.. but it doesn’t seem like he’s the most natural athlete (relative to pro sports). Just think it is way too easy to see him getting washed out during the course of play in the NHL. To be a top line C he’s either going to need to add a different level of explosion to his first step or get incredibly strong and be able to hold guys off with his balance and reach. That is a LOT of future projection to bet on physically.

Or he’s gotta play like Bergeron and that’s an insane bet to make.

I’m ok with him in the top 10 (because who tf else is there after a certain point?) but hard for me to be super thrilled about it

Like this take. Watching his tape, he just doesn’t seem to move his feet. Seems flat footed and a step slow. Think the speed of the NHL hurts him

 

[Turin]

It always amazes me how people can see wildly different things in skating. Like from what I see (which is pretty worthless admittedly) he actually moves pretty well, especially since he doesn't have that lower body man strength given that he's 6'2 yet. He looks like he plays such a heady-positional style that he's not really skating with the puck all that much. Kind of like Sid since he turned 30ish. But his vision/hockey sense seem good enough that he's a good bet to make. But maybe that extra gear he'll need to produce offensively at the next level isn't there. But he's got a good frame for it.

 

[Turin]

Due for a bad night for the tank and looks like we're getting it

 

[Jared Grayden]

It always amazes me how people can see wildly different things in skating. Like from what I see (which is pretty worthless admittedly) he actually moves pretty well, especially since he doesn't have that lower body man strength given that he's 6'2 yet. He looks like he plays such a heady-positional style that he's not really skating with the puck all that much. Kind of like Sid since he turned 30ish. But his vision/hockey sense seem good enough that he's a good bet to make. But maybe that extra gear he'll need to produce offensively at the next level isn't there. But he's got a good frame for it.

I've found nothing is more inconsistent in scouting than skating assessments. I understand there is a variety of sub factors to consider like lateral agility, acceleration, linear top speed, etc. But the primary question most are concerned about because it's most important attribute is does the player create separation consistently or not? Because if a player can't do that against non-NHL competition, they will likely not be doing it in the NHL even after strength and stride refinements.

 

[The GM]

Due for a bad night for the tank and looks like we're getting it

We just have to do our part and lose out and hope for the best, probably move up one spot from current at best

 

[Turin]

We just have to do our part and lose out and hope for the best, probably move up one spot from current at best

Yea unless they win the lottery it's been 6th to 9th for a long time. Would be nice to get 6 or 7 tho

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

But the primary question most are concerned about because it's most important attribute is does the player create separation consistently or not?

Correct. I don’t think the kid is a bad skater. He’s got a good head under pressure. But he doesn’t escape pressure and/or separate IMO. Doesn’t create his own space with the puck.

know they're just highlights so they mean little ultimately but where are we getting that O'Brien is somehow like Strome? Guy looks like he plays with pace and isn't overly big.

Just mean like top 6 C that is pass first and not necessary gonna carry the mail, drive play consistently. I would call O’Brien low pace as well.

I think he’s got a lot of upside I just think he’s a way off. Lot of projection with him. It’s tough to tell.

It always amazes me how people can see wildly different things in skating.

not just skating

People are talking about Desnoyers as a good shooter? I don’t even think his shot is an average tool of his. It is mediocre IMO. You would think everyone agrees on shooting.

I think video quality plays into it a lot.

 

[Jared Grayden]

Correct. I don’t think the kid is a bad skater. He’s got a good head under pressure. But he doesn’t escape pressure and/or separate IMO. Doesn’t create his own space with the puck.

Just mean like top 6 C that is pass first and not necessary gonna carry the mail, drive play consistently. I would call O’Brien low pace as well.

I think he’s got a lot of upside I just think he’s a way off. Lot of projection with him. It’s tough to tell.

not just skating

People are talking about Desnoyers as a good shooter? I don’t even think his shot is an average tool of his. It is mediocre IMO. You would think everyone agrees on shooting.

I think video quality plays into it a lot.

I doubt O'Brien will be in the NHL at all if he doesn't learn to play with more pace. But his combo of handling playmaking and shooting looks superb to me.
I almost always hear that Desnoyers has a average shot at best. He looks uncomfortably similar to Kotikaniemi for me. Safe vanilla player but don't want him in the top 10. I also fundamentally do not trust the Q for the reasons being mentioned on how weak it appears.

 

[Pancakes]

Every single standings result for the Pens sucked tonight lol

 

[IcedCapp]

View attachment 1010821

One of my favourite gifs of all time. Absolutely goated

 

[lokomotiv15]

I've found nothing is more inconsistent in scouting than skating assessments. I understand there is a variety of sub factors to consider like lateral agility, acceleration, linear top speed, etc. But the primary question most are concerned about because it's most important attribute is does the player create separation consistently or not? Because if a player can't do that against non-NHL competition, they will likely not be doing it in the NHL even after strength and stride refinements.

I think the biggest thing that I always keep a huge eye on is how these young players skill chain with their skating. Almost every player gets more explosive and stronger as they grow past their draft year, but players who might not be total burners or very explosive that can skill chain well from an early age tend to translate up and succeed more. Pat Kane in London was a great example.

Chances are if you can't skill chain in your draft year or D+1 year, you're not gonna get much more time and space and get any better at it as you keep moving up in leagues with older, better players.

 

[eXile3]

Does McQueen have like a Tage Thompson type slap shot? Because that’s the only way I would want anything to do with him.

 

[Jared Grayden]

I think the biggest thing that I always keep a huge eye on is how these young players skill chain with their skating. Almost every player gets more explosive and stronger as they grow past their draft year, but players who might not be total burners or very explosive that can skill chain well from an early age tend to translate up and succeed more. Pat Kane in London was a great example.

Chances are if you can't skill chain in your draft year or D+1 year, you're not gonna get much more time and space and get any better at it as you keep moving up in leagues with older, better players.

Appreciate the insight. That makes sense. Even a slower player that is comfortable playing in contact still needs to be able to make plays while mobile or they won't be of much use in the NHL.
So I take it from that, O'Brien would be a significant boom/bust candidate given he appears to currently much prefer being static or at least not at high skating speed when making plays?

 

[lokomotiv15]

Does McQueen have like a Tage Thompson type slap shot? Because that’s the only way I would want anything to do with him.

He is a solid but not spectacular shot option on the powerplay. He's comfortable and decent in tight hand-wise, but I wouldn't say he has the same stand-out wow factor in his puck control from a big guy like Tage does. He is a good shooter, but doesn't shoot dynamically like a Celebrini, Bedard, Snuggerud, etc... He's tall, but obviously still a little slight and not super physical.

The player I see a lot of in is game, is like later career 2014-15 40 goal scoring Rick Nash. Not a burner by any means but gets chances with his size and decent straight line speed, not a bull considering his size. Good shot, pretty good hands in tight for a big guy like Nash but a little bit more of a playmakers touch.

 

[lokomotiv15]

Appreciate the insight. That makes sense. Even a slower player that is comfortable playing in contact still needs to be able to make plays while mobile or they won't be of much use in the NHL.
So I take it from that, O'Brien would be a significant boom/bust candidate given he appears to currently much prefer being static or at least not at high skating speed when making plays?

O'Brien is a little weird in the way that yes, he does prefer to see the ice, make a move, and then again use vision and hockey IQ to make a play from the space he gained as opposed to being more dynamic in using that skill chaining, but he has it in him. The weird part is, a lot of the time I've watched games or seen clips of him being more dynamic he tends to try and do too much. It's like some games or shifts he has all the confidence in the world and tries to globetrot and shows he has that ability to move his feet, create space and then burn players and really escape with his puck control, cut backs, etc... but he gets into trouble or turns it over in coverage a lot more than he ends up with a really high end scoring chance.

Not that its the be all-end all. McGroarty is probably one of the least talented players in terms of skill chaining I have seen come from a high first round prospect in over half a decade, but obviously he's succeeded most places he's played and has looked pretty comfortable and effective in his limited NHL time so far.

 

[Jared Grayden]

O'Brien is a little weird in the way that yes, he does prefer to see the ice, make a move, and then again use vision and hockey IQ to make a play from the space he gained as opposed to being more dynamic in using that skill chaining, but he has it in him. The weird part is, a lot of the time I've watched games or seen clips of him being more dynamic he tends to try and do too much. It's like some games or shifts he has all the confidence in the world and tries to globetrot and shows he has that ability to move his feet, create space and then burn players and really escape with his puck control, cut backs, etc... but he gets into trouble or turns it over in coverage a lot more than he ends up with a really high end scoring chance.

Not that its the be all-end all. McGroarty is probably one of the least talented players in terms of skill chaining I have seen come from a high first round prospect in over half a decade, but obviously he's succeeded most places he's played and has looked pretty comfortable and effective in his limited NHL time so far.

Hornqvist strikes me as a player that was probably very limited in that way but still a very effective player. But I get it, it'll create holes in their game on what they can do.

 

[Turin]

Does McQueen have like a Tage Thompson type slap shot? Because that’s the only way I would want anything to do with him.

Tage didn’t have that shot until years after his draft either to be fair. These big dudes are so hard to pin down. Some have compared him to Bjugstad to denigrate him but Bjugstad would probably have been a really solid player without the injuries too.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

One of my favourite gifs of all time. Absolutely goated

If it’s not #1, it’s on the Mount Rushmore for sure

 

[SEALBound]

A big part of the reason I'm really excited about the idea of getting both Eklund and O'Brien in this draft is because I think the two fit really well together and could make up 2/3 of a damn good top-6 line down the line. If the draft ends out playing out like that, I think you could end up with a McGroarty-O'Brien-Eklund line that is a force at both ends of the ice.

If Crosby is still playing at that point, I think you could be cooking with a top-6 of something like:

McGroarty-Crosby-Koivunen
XXXX-O'Brien-Eklund

It leaves a lot of options on style too based on who that LW is. You could find a Hagelin like forward who is a speedy forechecker which would really help make up for any top end speed issues. Or you could get a guy like Hyman who goes to the corners to do the dirty work. It would slow the line down a bit but they would all compliment each other well. A young Rakell who has a nice mix of scoring and playmaking abilities would be great too.

That's where getting a guy like Howard might be nice. I'm sure if we have an existing player to pencil in for that slot at the moment but perhaps we get them in the draft or via trade (which seems to be the route most discussed by Dubas). Not sure he's the ideal fit for that slot but if he develops well, sticking McGroarty with JOB and Eklund may work well.

 

[chethejet]

I think centers are just such a hole right now that drafting O'Brien and developing him over the next couple years just makes sense. I think as I have posted this draft and 2026 will be center concentric at the top of the picks for the Pens. If the Rangers picks is 14 so be it. Take the RW or Martin if there. I do think Dubas will be active at the draft so see what happens as to acquire additional picks in the first round.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I would prefer that a few teams ahead of us absolutely fall in love with Eklund and Martone, like how the Ducks fell in love with Sennecke last season. It would help us, since Boston needs a center, Philly needs a center and Nashville needs a center. Seattle is probably going to grab a winger or Mrtka IMO, and Buffalo is the big wild card. If they trade the pick, chances are it will be to a team that needs a center. And for me, I really want a center with our first pick and at the very least someone like Martin with our second pick if Eklund falls to our first pick. McQueen would only be a consideration for me with the Rangers pick and ONLY if we land a center with the first pick. I cannot think of a team that is more desperate for center helps than us. Philly has Luchanko, at least. Boston has Minten and Poitras, at least. Nashville's center prospects are also better than ours. We have 35+ legends.

The end of the regular season + draft lottery cannot arrive soon enough!