Prospect Info: Draft 2025: Is it too late to tank? Asking for a friend

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That only supports the argument. They’ve played in that range all year and it wasn’t going to change unless talent was offloaded.

Talent was offloaded and it made no difference in their draft position.

It was a silly thing to complain about in the first place and it will look even sillier if/when the Penguins pick ends up in the same spot as what it was before the deadline. The only way to actually tangibly impact the Penguins draft position by trading players was by trading Crosby.

The Penguins didn't have Malkin for a chunk of games after the deadline and it basically had no impact on their performance. As long as Crosby is here, there is no such thing as "offloading talent to improve draft position".
 
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Talent was offloaded and it made no difference in their draft position.

It was a silly thing to complain about in the first place and it will look even sillier if/when the Penguins pick ends up in the same spot as what it was before the deadline. The only way to actually tangibly impact the Penguins draft position by trading players was by trading Crosby.

The Penguins didn't have Malkin for a chunk of games after the deadline and it basically had no impact on their performance. As long as Crosby is here, there is no such thing as "offloading talent to improve draft position".
That’s questionable.
 
Talent was offloaded and it made no difference in their draft position.
The Penguins didn't have Malkin for a chunk of games after the deadline and it basically had no impact on their performance. As long as Crosby is here, there is no such thing as "offloading talent to improve draft position".
we didn't unload enough. even Sid can't do it all by himself.:nod:
 
That’s questionable.

No it isn't.

Crosby has 11 goals and 20 points in 13 games since the deadline. That plus Jarry having a couple of insane games alone has gotten the Penguins a few wins. Trading Rakell wasn't going to change that, seeing how Crosby has continued to dominate even after Rakell was removed from his line.
 
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No it isn't.

Crosby has 11 goals and 20 points in 13 games since the deadline. That plus Jarry having a couple of insane games alone has gotten the Penguins a few wins. Trading Rakell wasn't going to change that, seeing how Crosby has continued to dominate even after Rakell was removed from his line.
It was in reference to the talent. No offense to Cody Glass but Dubas did a good job of trading away nothing players and getting something back.

I don’t think the team was any better or worse after the deadline.
 
Talent was offloaded and it made no difference in their draft position.

It was a silly thing to complain about in the first place and it will look even sillier if/when the Penguins pick ends up in the same spot as what it was before the deadline. The only way to actually tangibly impact the Penguins draft position by trading players was by trading Crosby.

The Penguins didn't have Malkin for a chunk of games after the deadline and it basically had no impact on their performance. As long as Crosby is here, there is no such thing as "offloading talent to improve draft position".

So you are so no matter who the Pens put in your lineup, they’d have the same record. That’s nonsense. Rakell and Grzelcyk have had big impacts on games and create a trickle down effect in the lineup when not there. Absolutely would have made a difference
 
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So you are so no matter who the Pens put in your lineup, they’d have the same record. That’s nonsense. Rakell and Grzelcyk have had big impacts on games and create a trickle down effect in the lineup when not there. Absolutely would have made a difference

Did you seriously just say that Grzelcyk have had "big impacts" on games? What in the hell are you talking about :laugh:

Since McGroarty got recalled and Rakell got taken off of Crosby's line, Crosby has 4 goals and 6 points in 4 games. Crosby's domination and Jarry having a couple of really good games alone is enough for this team to be winning games.

The reality is that the Penguins are a 1 line team propped up by Crosby, so unless you take Crosby out of the lineup, no changes anywhere else are going to make a notable difference with the team's performance.
 
Did you seriously just say that Grzelcyk have had "big impacts" on games? What in the hell are you talking about :laugh:

Since McGroarty got recalled and Rakell got taken off of Crosby's line, Crosby has 4 goals and 6 points in 4 games. Crosby's domination and Jarry having a couple of really good games alone is enough for this team to be winning games.

The reality is that the Penguins are a 1 line team propped up by Crosby, so unless you take Crosby out of the lineup, no changes anywhere else are going to make a notable difference with the team's performance.
I didn’t say big impact but it could be the difference in a 1 goal game. He’s been one of the better dmen lately

If Grzelcyk does not matter then why did they sign him? If your argument is players don’t matter that is hilarious. Rakell has 6 goals and 4 assists since. You think a tomato can could have done that apparently
 
I've been thinking about how my draft opinions would change if the Penguins do end up picking #6, because I think it adds most likely Desnoyers to the draftable options list with O'Brien and Eklund. I was saying that O'Brien as a 6'2" playmaking center would be tough to pass up on, but Desnoyers is also a 6'2" center who seems to have a substantially more developed all-around game.

Elite Prospects' Youtube channel did an good upload on him here from a few months ago:



What really stands out is just how high of an IQ player he is, he doesn't seem to have the natural talent that other guys high in the draft seem to have but he thinks the game at an elite level. I think that lack of natural talent caps his upside as more likely a complementary player, kinda like a center version of McGroarty without the skating concerns.

I think O'Brien still probably has the highest upside of the guys they can take at #6, but Eklund and Desnoyers feel pretty comparable in terms of upside that I may pick Desnoyers based on him being a center.

I'm higher than I was on O'Brien a month or two ago. At that time I didn't mind him as a mid-teen option in the first round, but he's slid up, which may be more of an indicator of my opinion on this crop of draft eligibles. I'm still curious as to how he looks without a 70 goal scorer on his line, but in the viewings I have had he does create a good amount of offense himself and I wouldn't say is just getting stat padded by Lardis.

One to one I would agree he's right there with Desnoyers now. What I dont like about Desnoyers is that I don't think hes got the complete enough toolbox to ever be a 1st line center in the NHL. He's got good size, skates well and thinks the game well like you said, but I think his ceiling would be a non-play driving 2nd line center.

As much as I have him rated higher than O'Brien as more of a safe bet, I also find it hard to be excited about putting a top 6-8 pick into someone who's ceiling is a complementary top 6 player. It's a lot harder to find play driving wingers to support a center than it is to find a center to push play with complimentary wingers.

The closer we get to the draft the more I am uninspired about anyone after the 1-4/5 spot. I'm still on the wagon that I want that NYR lottery ticket for 2026 draft than any mid-teen pick this draft.
 
I'm higher than I was on O'Brien a month or two ago. At that time I didn't mind him as a mid-teen option in the first round, but he's slid up, which may be more of an indicator of my opinion on this crop of draft eligibles. I'm still curious as to how he looks without a 70 goal scorer on his line, but in the viewings I have had he does create a good amount of offense himself and I wouldn't say is just getting stat padded by Lardis.

One to one I would agree he's right there with Desnoyers now. What I dont like about Desnoyers is that I don't think hes got the complete enough toolbox to ever be a 1st line center in the NHL. He's got good size, skates well and thinks the game well like you said, but I think his ceiling would be a non-play driving 2nd line center.

As much as I have him rated higher than O'Brien as more of a safe bet, I also find it hard to be excited about putting a top 6-8 pick into someone who's ceiling is a complementary top 6 player. It's a lot harder to find play driving wingers to support a center than it is to find a center to push play with complimentary wingers.

The closer we get to the draft the more I am uninspired about anyone after the 1-4/5 spot. I'm still on the wagon that I want that NYR lottery ticket for 2026 draft than any mid-teen pick this draft.

Yeah that's the impression I get with Desnoyers' upside, like I said it feels like McGroarty but a center and without the skating concerns. I also feel like Eklund's upside is most likely more of a complementary piece as well, but his playdriving numbers this year are fantastic so I could definitely be wrong about that.

If they're going for an upside swing, I think O'Brien is the guy to take. Desnoyers feels like the safer pick that's a lock to be a good 2C, while Eklund feels to be a middle ground between those two in terms of upside and safeness but doesn't play center like the other two.
 
The closer we get to the draft the more I am uninspired about anyone after the 1-4/5 spot. I'm still on the wagon that I want that NYR lottery ticket for 2026 draft than any mid-teen pick this draft.
It’ll probably end up good lol

but it truly is incredibly unexciting after like the first 5-6 guys
 
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That's why the little heater they went on and all these stupid f***ing loser points sucks. Couple more regulation losses and they're sitting 4th overall right now. Guarantees you get one of Martone or Hagens, unless Misa or Schaefer somehow drop which I doubt. Either way, top 4 is pretty big.

Margin for error is as razor thin as it is for any playoff race.
 
It’ll probably end up good lol

but it truly is incredibly unexciting after like the first 5-6 guys
Yeah haha, can't wait for this to be like the 2014 draft when I was ripping on it all over this place because it was so uninspiring and just full of big-bodied so-so Canadians, and a few mildly interesting Euro and US born players. All I was even remotely excited about with the Pens draft slot was Sherbak and two other potential late-first round Russians.

Now one of those players is putting up MVP caliber season after MVP caliber season, there are multiple 50 and 60 goal scorers in the draft, multiple 100-point players, tons of cups and the guys I liked are eating borscht in Austria.

Guess thats why 10 years later I'm still just posting on here.
 
That's why the little heater they went on and all these stupid f***ing loser points sucks. Couple more regulation losses and they're sitting 4th overall right now. Guarantees you get one of Martone or Hagens, unless Misa or Schaefer somehow drop which I doubt. Either way, top 4 is pretty big.

Margin for error is as razor thin as it is for any playoff race.
All I can hold onto hope about is someone makes an oops about McQueen and jumps on him in that top 5 and pushes someone down, or that Martone or Hagens maybe have a bit of a fall.

This is probably the only draft I can remember where no one fought and seized a top-3 spot in their draft season, with a honorable mention shout** out to Misa.

Schaefer kind of got put into that 1 spot with his Hlinka, Prospect showcase and early season play, but since then it's again been uninspiring from everyone else. Hagens played himself out (not that he played poorly by any means) of the 1st overall spot. Martone came back from the world junior looking like he had his confidence busted up a bit, and have seen him start to fall down to 5 and even 6 in a few spots. Misa is the only one that made a good push and kind of maintained his 2-3 spot but then was absolutely invisible in the playoffs in a coin toss series against Erie. Frondell played and produced like your standard early-ish first round Swede or Finn playing in the 2nd tier mens pro league would. Poor McQueen secured himself on my DND before 12 spot. Big, tall kid with back and hip issues at 18 with an early birthday, skating issues and one-ish dimensional play.

If we end up with the Rangers 1st, the only guy I can really say I'd be excited about is getting Lynden Lakovic in the teens. Great size, great skater, great hands and chaining for his size and carried an abysmal Moose Jaw Warriors offense all year and showed extremely well at the showcase. I feel like he's flown under the radar because his Draft-1 year he played limited minutes behind an absolutely stacked offense in Moose Jaw and then his draft year, that entire offense is gone so he's the guy now but with almost no support. He leads the team in PPG @ 1.23 PPG. 2nd is an undrafted 19 year old Dman with 0.71 PPG. Kovacevic who is an OA was 2nd at 1.21 before being traded halfway through the season and Yager was obviously gone at the 20 game mark, but was clicking at a 1.42 rate.
 
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I definitely prefer the Rangers pick gets kicked to next year. I think you're probably getting a similar caliber prospect next year as you would with the Rangers pick if it ends up being like 12th overall. Their depth is awful, they have big raises coming to Shesterkin and Lafreniere (lol), and that team's core is gettin' old. If Shesterkin has a significant injury you could end up with two top 5 picks next season.
All I can hold onto hope about is someone makes an oops about McQueen and jumps on him in that top 5 and pushes someone down, or that Martone or Hagens maybe have a bit of a fall.

This is probably the only draft I can remember where no one fought and seized a top-3 spot in their draft season, with a honorable mention should out to Misa.

Schafer kind of got put into that 1 spot with his Hlinka, Prospect showcase and early season play, but since then it's again been uninspiring from everyone else. Hagens played himself out (not that he played poorly by any means) of the 1st overall spot. Martone came back from the world junior looking like he had his confidence busted up a bit, and have seen him start to fall down to 5 and even 6 in a few spots. Misa is the only one that made a good push and kind of maintained his 2-3 spot but then was absolutely invisible in the playoffs in a coin toss series against Erie. Frondell played and produced like your standard early-ish first round Swede or Finn playing in the 2nd tier mens pro league would. Poor McQueen secured himself on my DND before 12 spot. Big, tall kid with back and hip issues at 18 with an early birthday, skating issues and one-ish dimensional play.

If we end up with the Rangers 1st, the only guy I can really say I'd be excited about is getting Lynden Lakovic in the teens. Great size, great skater, great hands and chaining for his size and carried an abysmal Moose Jaw Warriors offense all year and showed extremely well at the showcase. I feel like he's flown under the radar because his Draft-1 year he played limited minutes behind an absolutely stacked offense in Moose Jaw and then his draft year, that entire offense is gone so he's the guy now but with almost no support. He leads the team in PPG @ 1.23 PPG. 2nd is an undrafted 19 year old Dman with 0.71 PPG. Kovacevic who is an OA was 2nd at 1.21 before being traded halfway through the season and Yager was obviously gone at the 20 game mark, but was clicking at a 1.42 rate.
Yeah, I'm hoping someone that isn't the Pens gets suckered into taking McQueen and somebody drops into the Pens' lap.
 
All I can hold onto hope about is someone makes an oops about McQueen and jumps on him in that top 5 and pushes someone down, or that Martone or Hagens maybe have a bit of a fall.

This is probably the only draft I can remember where no one fought and seized a top-3 spot in their draft season, with a honorable mention should out to Misa.

I was actually going to comment something similar to this, I was going to make it regarding Martone but it really seems to apply to most of the top of this draft. I've grown to think there is less and less of a difference between Hagens/Martone and the guys in the 5-9 spot, not because of the guys in the 5-9 spot performing great but because Hagens and Martone have been so meh.
 
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That's why the little heater they went on and all these stupid f***ing loser points sucks. Couple more regulation losses and they're sitting 4th overall right now. Guarantees you get one of Martone or Hagens, unless Misa or Schaefer somehow drop which I doubt. Either way, top 4 is pretty big.

Margin for error is as razor thin as it is for any playoff race.
In most years I feel like who cares about drafting 5th vs 8th, but this year it absolutely looks like a big drop off in terms of how these guys project.

Hopefully that’s not the case 10 years from now but gonna pain me deeply if Boston loses its way into Hagens.
 
I would be borderline shocked if the Pens took McQueen with a top 10 pick. Maybe if they traded down and collected more assets to take him, but with his health condition I really don't expect anyone to draft him top 10.
there are jr gm's born every minute, but they usually don't last as long.
 
I think it’s almost guaranteed that barring a player dropping, our pick is almost certainly Eklund/Frondell/O’Brien. There’s been a lot of noise around Dubas and those players.

After watching @Jesse video, I’m personally hoping for Eklund. He’s a smaller, more skilled Ryan Leonard in my eyes.
 
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Gun to my head, I think I'm still taking Eklund at #6, but it's going to really hurt to pass up on O'Brien. I think Eklund is the "best player" there between upside and NHL readiness/certainty, but him being a winger and his smaller size makes me really uncomfortable passing up on O'Brien for him.

Taking Eklund over O'Brien could be a situation where the Penguins get a good top-6 winger, but they pass up on a future righty 6'2" 1C that you'd feel like an idiot for not taking.

That said, if Crosby plays for another 5+ years, I think a McGroarty-Crosby-Eklund L1 would be a terrifying line.
 
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Looks like Buffalo might jump us with 2 in hand and owning the tie-breaker.
God I hate that Philly and Boston are ahead of us. We should be sitting at #4. Still time though. Philly could pull a couple out still. Us at 5 would be great because that almost assures us 5 or 6. That's Frondell, Eklund, or Desnoyers.
Jesse's vid on Desnoyers makes me feel better about him but the Q still has me concerned.
Yeah, I have the same slight reservations about Carbanneau as well IF we get the Rags pick.

I looked up recent Q draftees in the last 5-6 drafts and there are some good names out there but certainly the weakest of the NA leagues (O, W, Q, NCAA, USHL, primarily) but I'd say it's on par with Euro leagues.
 
Gun to my head, I think I'm still taking Eklund at #6, but it's going to really hurt to pass up on O'Brien. I think Eklund is the "best player" there between upside and NHL readiness/certainty, but him being a winger and his smaller size makes me really uncomfortable passing up on O'Brien for him.

Taking Eklund over O'Brien could be a situation where the Penguins get a good top-6 winger, but they pass up on a future righty 6'2" 1C that you'd feel like an idiot for not taking.

That said, if Crosby plays for another 5+ years, I think a McGroarty-Crosby-Eklund L1 would be a terrifying line.
Is that assuming a top 5 of:

Schaeffer
Misa
Martone
Hagens
Frondell

?

I could see a team opting for a NA center over Frondell which would be huge for us.
 
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