Prospect Info: Draft 2025 Habs you're on the clock

[WeThreeKings]

All far more proven, except Forsling who is just a lucky waiver pickup.

They still fall under the description of what you are talking about. Using blanket statements because one particular gamble didn't work out in that vein is a way to never improve your team.

Essentially you are saying only sign UFAs or trade for established guys. That's fine but you are always paying top dollar, term, and asset value to acquire people in those situations. Looking to find value where other people are missing it, are usually the signs of a top notch organization.

 

[LaP]

All far more proven, except Forsling who is just a lucky waiver pickup.

Mountour was traded to Florida for a 3rd round pick. There's was not a single NHL GMs who considered him a proven top 4 dman at the point of his career or else the price would have been higher. A rental top 4 dman is very very easily worth a 2nd round pick.

 

[le_sean]

They still fall under the description of what you are talking about. Using blanket statements because one particular gamble didn't work out in that vein is a way to never improve your team.

Essentially you are saying only sign UFAs or trade for established guys. That's fine but you are always paying top dollar, term, and asset value to acquire people in those situations. Looking to find value where other people are missing it, are usually the signs of a top notch organization.

How many of them were 21 years old? That’s my point. Who gives up on a 21 year old 3rd overall pick? Usually teams that know something is seriously wrong with the player. It’s just a massive red flag. I didn’t see it, but I’m also not paid really good money to see it.

You’re pointing out guys who were in the league quite a bit longer. Maybe a team got fed up waiting for them to breakout. You can see why they’d move on. I’d argue Bennett didn’t even break out. He’s a 40-50 point player that turns it up two notches in the playoffs.

 

[le_sean]

Mountour was traded to Florida for a 3rd round pick. There's was not a single NHL GMs who considered him a proven top 4 dman at the point of his career or else the price would have been higher. A rental top 4 dman is very very easily worth a 2nd round pick.

Yeah a worthy gamble. A 3rd round pick. Not the 13th overall pick + 3rd like Dach. Or a 1st and 2nd like Newhook.

A question mark for a question mark pick. We traded 4 really good assets that could have been used for more established players rather than young guys who were given up on because better organizations clearly saw something wrong.

 

[WeThreeKings]

How many of them were 21 years old? That’s my point. Who gives up on a 21 year old 3rd overall pick? Usually teams that know something is seriously wrong with the player. It’s just a massive red flag. I didn’t see it, but I’m also not paid really good money to see it.

You’re pointing out guys who were in the league quite a bit longer. Maybe a team got fed up waiting for them to breakout. You can see why they’d move on. I’d argue Bennett didn’t even break out. He’s a 40-50 point player that turns it up two notches in the playoffs.

A terribly run organization.. they've completely put Bedard in a situation where things are pretty dire.

 

[HabsQC]

Yeah a worthy gamble. A 3rd round pick. Not the 13th overall pick + 3rd like Dach. Or a 1st and 2nd like Newhook.

A question mark for a question mark pick. We traded 4 really good assets that could have been used for more established players rather than young guys who were given up on because better organizations clearly saw something wrong.

Sure thing but they weren't bad gambles either at the time of the trade IMO.

 

[le_sean]

A terribly run organization.. they've completely put Bedard in a situation where things are pretty dire.

I mean 3 Cups since 2010. Where does this put the Habs if the Blackhawks are terrible?

 

[WeThreeKings]

I mean 3 Cups since 2010. Where does this put the Habs if the Blackhawks are terrible?

You mean, the 3 cups that were won by a completely different front office because they were letting their employees rape their players?

 

[le_sean]

You mean, the 3 cups that were won by a completely different front office because they were letting their employees rape their players?

Kyle Davidson was part of that organization.

The other point is irrelevant, we are talking hockey operations. They are terrible ethically, no question.

 

[le_sean]

Sure thing but they weren't bad gambles either at the time of the trade IMO.

It’s a bit much looking back. We were starved for talent so it seemed exciting. I for one thought those moves looked good. But I think those types of assets should bring back more proven players. We are currently talking trading the 16th pick + more for a 2C. So why does the 13th pick + 3rd bring back a complete unknown?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Kyle Davidson was part of that organization.

The other point is irrelevant, we are talking hockey operations. They are terrible ethically, no question.

It's like claiming Detroit has a good front office because they won cups back with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. They are completely different regimes.

Anyways, venturing back to the topic. You can't just make a blanket statement and say, don't do this because Dach didn't work out and when pointing out how other teams have used the same principle to acquire players, say it doesn't count because X and X. No two situations are ever going to be the exact same.

The team should absolutely continue to look for value in young players that are being undervalued by their current teams. Chicago was happy to move on because they wanted to restart the whole thing and go all in for Bedard. It's why they traded Debrincat, it's why they traded Dach, it's why you can't find very many players, if any, that were there on that team prior to Bedard being drafted.

Newhook was dealt because they wanted value to bring in more experienced players to try to win another cup.

If you look at the Panthers, look how many of their key players were drafted or signed off FA. It's very few. A lot of their team was built off of shrewd moves. But even all of those moves don't pan out. Adam Boqvist didn't work. Lightning have done a lot of great moves like Nick Paul, Hagel, Goodrow, moves they were largely panned for.. but even they paid a shit load for Tanner Jeannot and he f***ing sucked for them.

We should be looking at the Donato's and Geekie's of the world. Are these guys unlocking something like Verhaege started to unlock for Florida, or did they just take advantage of top 6 minutes on bad squads and their production will go down when properly slotted?

Can't just only trade for established guys and sign established players off FA. You'll end up like Toronto with no cap space and no assets left to improve the roster long term. But even Toronto did find value in guys like Bunting off a scrap heap.

 

[le_sean]

It's like claiming Detroit has a good front office because they won cups back with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. They are completely different regimes.

Anyways, venturing back to the topic. You can't just make a blanket statement and say, don't do this because Dach didn't work out and when pointing out how other teams have used the same principle to acquire players, say it doesn't count because X and X. No two situations are ever going to be the exact same.

The team should absolutely continue to look for value in young players that are being undervalued by their current teams. Chicago was happy to move on because they wanted to restart the whole thing and go all in for Bedard. It's why they traded Debrincat, it's why they traded Dach, it's why you can't find very many players, if any, that were there on that team prior to Bedard being drafted.

Newhook was dealt because they wanted value to bring in more experienced players to try to win another cup.

If you look at the Panthers, look how many of their key players were drafted or signed off FA. It's very few. A lot of their team was built off of shrewd moves. But even all of those moves don't pan out. Adam Boqvist didn't work. Lightning have done a lot of great moves like Nick Paul, Hagel, Goodrow, moves they were largely panned for.. but even they paid a shit load for Tanner Jeannot and he f***ing sucked for them.

We should be looking at the Donato's and Geekie's of the world. Are these guys unlocking something like Verhaege started to unlock for Florida, or did they just take advantage of top 6 minutes on bad squads and their production will go down when properly slotted?

Can't just only trade for established guys and sign established players off FA. You'll end up like Toronto with no cap space and no assets left to improve the roster long term. But even Toronto did find value in guys like Bunting off a scrap heap.

Again, you’re pointing to reclamation projects or hidden gems that didn’t cost the 13th overall pick plus a 3rd round pick to get.

Would you trade the 16th overall pick for a potential breakout in Isak Rosen? Or would you trade it for a more established player?

And I agree we should find these players posting the shuffle. I mentioned Perbix before.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Again, you’re pointing to reclamation projects or hidden gems that didn’t cost the 13th overall pick plus a 3rd round pick to get.

Would you trade the 16th overall pick for a potential breakout in Isak Rosen? Or would you trade it for a more established player?

And I agree we should find these players posting the shuffle. I mentioned Perbix before.

In Isak Rosen? No. In what world was Isak Rosen a previous 3rd overall pick with 6'4 size who showed out strong in play-off showings and had other glimpses of massive potential at the NHL level?

You don't like Dach. Fine. Nobody has to like everyone. But to say it wasn't a worthwhile risk, or a methodology we should never look at doing again because he kept getting major injuries to his knees that were never injured previously, is monday morning QBing.

 

[le_sean]

In Isak Rosen? No. In what world was Isak Rosen a previous 3rd overall pick with 6'4 size who showed out strong in play-off showings and had other glimpses of massive potential at the NHL level?

You don't like Dach. Fine. Nobody has to like everyone. But to say it wasn't a worthwhile risk, or a methodology we should never look at doing again because he kept getting major injuries to his knees that were never injured previously, is monday morning QBing.

You make it seem like he was just coming off a strong playoff and not a 26 point season and a year of injuries the year before that. He was two years removed from “strong" playoff (carried by strong wingers btw)

Olli Maatta had just as many points in those playoffs. Should we have traded for him instead?

 

[LaP]

Kyle Davidson was part of that organization.

The other point is irrelevant, we are talking hockey operations. They are terrible ethically, no question.

Davidson was mostly a video guy back then. He bacame assistant GM in 2018 after the cups. Looking at Davidson's and Bowman's resume you could make a strong case that the cups are on Dave Tallon since most of the important players were acquired by him. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Ladd, Versteeg, Harlmalsson, Huet, Crawford, Bickell, Byfuglien, Brouwer, ... all those players were alerady there under Tallon. Tallon played a big role in Florida'a cup too.

 

[Runner77]

Disagree - #1D is the hardest and most important position to fill IMO

That’s why Hughes was furiously making phone calls to try and move up in the 2023 draft, so he could make sure to select Reinbacher with one of the first 4 picks.

 

[HabsQC]

It’s a bit much looking back. We were starved for talent so it seemed exciting. I for one thought those moves looked good. But I think those types of assets should bring back more proven players. We are currently talking trading the 16th pick + more for a 2C. So why does the 13th pick + 3rd bring back a complete unknown?

The plan was to acquire young players that would grow up with team. It didn't make sense at that time to bring proven players because we were trying to tank.


Dach was a recent 3rd overall with a big frame and skills. Not a complete unknown.

Now we are done with projects and need proven players though so I do agree with you ultimately.

 

[WeThreeKings]

You make it seem like he was just coming off a strong playoff and not a 26 point season and a year of injuries the year before that. He was two years removed from “strong" playoff (carried by strong wingers btw)

Olli Maatta had just as many points in those playoffs. Should we have traded for him instead?

I get that you don't think Dach was the right target. But it doesn't mean you don't take those chances when they are out there. Which is what you originally claimed.

There's plenty of reasons why he went 3rd overall. There's plenty of reasons why this management team went after him and targeted him. Chicago had their own set of reasons to want to liquidate him and Debrincat. I know what you'll say about his first season with us, because you'll want to again disqualify all the positive things he was showing that year and why it looked like the gamble was going to pay off.

But if the Kings made Byfield available. I'd still be inquiring. I would not be saying oh well he's a former 2nd overall and the Kings must know something about him. So let's not try to acquire him.

You have to try and make plays like that. Finding value where other people are missing it, or using a player the wrong way, or putting them with the wrong line mates, is the right thing to do. You won't hit it out of the park every time. But sometimes you get more out of Bennett. More out of Reinhart. Find a Forsling. Get a Verhaege.

 

[MtlSars]

I think it cannot be understated that the team had just drafted the big Slovakian winger at 1st overall instead of the consensus Canadian center...

Getting Dach was also a way to alleviate the backlash on that move/decision with a draft in Montreal.

Gorton was GM in NY when they drafted Kakko as a 2nd overall in 2019 and likely had intrinsic info and data on Dach and scouted him as a legit draft option. A big 6 feet 4 center that skated well and had silky hands without having a great shot even prior to the wrist injury/ies?

The guy had legit talent and potential, and now has suffered a lot of injuries in his young career which has jeopardized his position in the NHL, it's unfortunate but it happened to a lot of athletes in this league. I don't think it speaks to a bad pro scout assessment with hindsight.

It's 2025 and Habs are on the clock..... I don't really know what to do, I watch a lot of NHL but almost no junior, international tournaments almost exclusively... that's why I come here!!!

I hope we get lucky and someone drops like when we got Caufield at 16 and he was clearly a TOP 5/10 pick but he so tiny so we got lucky. Let's hope people are scared of the McQueen injury history and the Cayden Lindstrom pick and he drops to us at 16. That's a homerun swing I'd laugh all the way to the bank with...

 

[Team_Spirit]

Kirby talk in the '25 draft thread lfg boys

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I think it cannot be understated that the team had just drafted the big Slovakian winger at 1st overall instead of the consensus Canadian center...

Getting Dach was also a way to alleviate the backlash on that move/decision with a draft in Montreal.

Gorton was GM in NY when they drafted Kakko as a 2nd overall in 2019 and likely had intrinsic info and data on Dach and scouted him as a legit draft option. A big 6 feet 4 center that skated well and had silky hands without having a great shot even prior to the wrist injury/ies?

The guy had legit talent and potential, and now has suffered a lot of injuries in his young career which has jeopardized his position in the NHL, it's unfortunate but it happened to a lot of athletes in this league. I don't think it speaks to a bad pro scout assessment with hindsight.

It's 2025 and Habs are on the clock..... I don't really know what to do, I watch a lot of NHL but almost no junior, international tournaments almost exclusively... that's why I come here!!!

I hope we get lucky and someone drops like when we got Caufield at 16 and he was clearly a TOP 5/10 pick but he so tiny so we got lucky. Let's hope people are scared of the McQueen injury history and the Cayden Lindstrom pick and he drops to us at 16. That's a homerun swing I'd laugh all the way to the bank with...

I loved the gamble Hughes took on Dach. If there was a similar gamble, i would go for it. The ends shouldn't justify the means. No one could have predicated Dach would be me made of glass. (other than his wrist).

 

[sampollock]

get ready fans
"MTL is on the clock"
then
"we have a trade to annouce"

 

[Scriptor]

get ready fans
"MTL is on the clock"
then
"we have a trade to annouce"

Might well be exactly how it goes.

Could be we trade both picks (16th & 17th, plus maybe more) in the same trade, just one of the two first rounders in a trade, or both first rounders in two different trades?

I'd personally like for Montreal to keep both picks and sign a UFA C.

I'd love to select Carbonneau and Cootes, both players that would be available at our selection rank.

 

[sampollock]

Might well be exactly how it goes.

Could be we trade both picks (16th & 17th, plus maybe more) in the same trade, just one of the two first rounders in a trade, or both first rounders in two different trades?

I'd personally like for Montreal to keep both picks and sign a UFA C.

I'd love to select Carbonneau and Cootes, both players that would be available at our selection rank.

trade the 1 pick
and pick spence

 

[austin316]

get ready fans
"MTL is on the clock"
then
"we have a trade to annouce"

I think if our picks get traded it happens before the day of the draft