Prospect Info: Draft 2025 - Everyone is trading up, but no one seems to be trading down edition

[HandshakeLine]

You'd be unhappy if the player we draft at #11 turned into a 6'6" top-4 defenseman?

When there are better options than a mediocre top 4 guy, sure.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I also do not rate positional defensemen very highly as difference makers.

 

[Jared Grayden]

I also do not rate positional defensemen very highly as difference makers.

If it makes you feel any better, non-positional defensemen are usually negative difference makers. I wouldn't really expect a difference maker at #11. If they could get a solid 2nd liner that would be a good outcome.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If it makes you feel any better, non-positional defensemen are usually negative difference makers. I wouldn't really expect a difference maker at #11. If they could get a solid 2nd liner that would be a good outcome.

Yeah, but I think that a physical edge actually is a difference maker in a very tangible sense. We have lost entire series and seasons because of borderline play; it is a very effective tool in a team’s toolbox. All things considered, I will take a smaller more physical top 4 guy 10/10 over a 6’6” mediocre positional guy.

 

[Jared Grayden]

Yeah, but I think that a physical edge actually is a difference maker in a very tangible sense. We have lost entire series and seasons because of borderline play; it is a very effective tool in a team’s toolbox. All things considered, I will take a smaller more physical top 4 guy 10/10 over a 6’6” mediocre positional guy.

I'm not sure there is a better blue line option available. Doubtful Schaefer will be the only dman taken top 10 as well. This defenseman class looks weak. I trust Mrtka's floor more than Smith's and Aitcheson's. I do think Smith has the best upside, but he's a poor decision maker that showed zero improvement over the season.

 

[HandshakeLine]

In that case I don’t draft him with 11OA. There’s no need to draft a mediocre defenseman just to draft someone.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Yeah, but I think that a physical edge actually is a difference maker in a very tangible sense. We have lost entire series and seasons because of borderline play; it is a very effective tool in a team’s toolbox. All things considered, I will take a smaller more physical top 4 guy 10/10 over a 6’6” mediocre positional guy.

All things being equal, yes, a more physical defensemen would be ideal. Yet, many dmen are overrated mainly because of their physical play. For example, Brooks Orpik. His career highlight was a 16 second clip where he threw 4 hits while never getting possession of the puck. He was never a great shut down guy. I'd take cup winning Dumo over cup winning Orpik every day of the week. Sure, Dumo was a target for the opposition but there was a good reason for that, he was legitimately a frustrating guy to play against when he was in his prime. Orpik was great at hitting guys after they scored, though.

In a perfect world, we get a Scott Stevens type on the blue line who is both great defensively and can punish the opposition physically but that is pretty rare.

As for who I hope the Pens will pick...I have no idea. Just please select a good player.

 

[HandshakeLine]

But knowing when to throw a hit is fairly coachable. Making a positional guy throw a hit is often not.

 

[plaidchuck]

All we need is a Tom Wilson who doesnt care about getting suspended or actually paid, natch.

I can’t think of any time that may have helped at least pre back to back cups. The rangers and montreal series I guess? Still kind of wonder where all these cup wins that were thrown away by not having enough "toughness" when the team never had a chance against the Hawks, not to mention they couldn't get past Igor Bryzgalov and a head coach who played a hall of fame player on his off wing.

 

[The Old Master]

when will this ever come to an end?

 

[SEALBound]

when will this ever come to an end?

The evening of June 27th

 

[Ryder71]

A defensive menace? Everything else I've read seems to suggest he's going to be a taller Pettersson.

Yep, which isn't bad, but not worthy of the 11th OA pick, hell no!

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I would be very meh if we ended up with Mrtka and nothing else to show for round 1. I like the player, in general. But if he does not fill a massive need, then you have to swing for a higher upside player imo.

If the top 10 goes in the worst case scenario, which means 7 centers, Martone, Schaefer and Eklund (and NYR keeps this year's pick), I would seriously consider trading down.

Maybe we can get a left defenseman who is near NHL-ready if we drop down a few spots. And then take a flier on one of the centers left (Reschny, Kindl, Cootes, Potter et al).

Of course, there has to be a team who wants somebody in order to move up. And to me it feels like outside the top 10 there is nobody who fits the bill.

 

[Ryder71]

Maybe we can make a trade with the Kraken and move up three spots. That would pretty much guarantee a solid pick at 8th OA. I would imagine the Kraken could get a defensemen they want at 11TH OA.

 

[The Old Master]

If the top 10 goes in the worst case scenario, which means 7 centers, Martone, Schaefer and Eklund (and NYR keeps this year's pick), I would seriously consider trading down.

Maybe we can get a left defenseman who is near NHL-ready if we drop down a few spots. And then take a flier on one of the centers left (Reschny, Kindl, Cootes, Potter et al).

L. Lakovic is not who I am hoping for but could be a very good winger. I'm not a fan of trading down.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

L. Lakovic is not who I am hoping for but could be a very good winger. I'm not a fan of trading down.

Fair. I am not a big fan of this draft.

 

[JRS91]

I don't love Mrtka, but who is saying his skating is his biggest negative? His linear mobility is well above average and more impressive for his size. I can see some arguments he is choppy laterally. I think his lack of physicality for such a large frame and handling pressure are much more negatives for Mrtka.

I just see a bigger Olli Maatta.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Maybe we can make a trade with the Kraken and move up three spots. That would pretty much guarantee a solid pick at 8th OA. I would imagine the Kraken could get a defensemen they want at 11TH OA.

Sign me up but how do we get that done? A flip of bad contract goaltenders (Jarry for Grubauer)?

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I just see a bigger Olli Maatta.

That is not a bad thing. I mean relatively speaking, you could do a hell of a lot worse in a weak draft year.

 

[Jared Grayden]

I just see a bigger Olli Maatta.

Might be a similar on ice impact, though he's definitely going to be a better skater than Molasses Maatta. I expect he has more upside but maybe a less safe floor. Likely won't be an NHL regular at 19 either. 11th overall picks about a third of the time end up not even being NHL regulars and that's for every draft. This might very well be a weaker than average draft.

 

[Ryder71]

Sign me up but how do we get that done? A flip of bad contract goaltenders (Jarry for Grubauer)?

I think it would take 63rd OA and another pick.

 

[HandshakeLine]

That is not a bad thing. I mean relatively speaking, you could do a hell of a lot worse in a weak draft year.

Yes, and no.

For one, I'm not entirely sure this year is actually all that weak, at least not compared to any other year. Scouts are dumb as bricks and nobody remembers when they wiff (which is like 90% of the time) and only when they hit.

Secondly, I think taking a 6'6" positional-and-nothing-else guy if he's BPA is okay, but at 11OA there should be better choices. We don't need likely-to-be-NHLers, we need actual either trade bait or pieces for a rebuild. We can draft all the Maattas and Petterssons we want when we have a more developed prospect system. Hell, I'd even go as far as to argue that's pretty much the only kind of defenseman we actually have at the moment.

I also think that it's quite likely that having a guy like Maatta or Pettersson isn't going to be as necessary as we're looking at a wholesale coaching change(s) and likely won't be aiming to play the same kind of play when Sid and Geno are gone (which is soon and likely sooner than a blueliner making the team).

 

[HandshakeLine]

All we need is a Tom Wilson who doesnt care about getting suspended or actually paid, natch.

I can’t think of any time that may have helped at least pre back to back cups. The rangers and montreal series I guess? Still kind of wonder where all these cup wins that were thrown away by not having enough "toughness" when the team never had a chance against the Hawks, not to mention they couldn't get past Igor Bryzgalov and a head coach who played a hall of fame player on his off wing.

I dunno, how did we do against the Rags, a very winnable series that we dropped in part because Crosby took an elbow? Riddle me that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

"We don't need toughness," screams the fanbase who also screamed for a decade about how unfair it was that every other team in the league just got more physical against us in the postseason and beat us (when we were actually in it, which was again, a decade ago).

(For the record, I am not advocating for toughness for preventing anything, but for being proactive putting other teams out of the running. It's such a broken mindset that we can only think about toughness in terms having one dude on the team actually be tough. Pathetic, really.)

 

[The Old Master]

Fair. I am not a big fan of this draft.

yeah, when you consider the large number of bust that's possible with this group it makes it all the more important to get it right. that's why i want them to move up.