HF Habs: Draft 2018: What are your immediate draft class feelings?

[WeThreeKings]

45 and he sux


Brady is a better driver than Oliver

He may be in the end but Oliver flashed a lot more tools in his draft year and still absolutely has 40 goal upside. Which Brady doesn't have.

I won't apologize for that ranking at all. I valued other things more highly in that draft class.

 

[Mrb1p]

He may be in the end but Oliver flashed a lot more tools in his draft year and still absolutely has 40 goal upside. Which Brady doesn't have.

I won't apologize for that ranking at all. I valued other things more highly in that draft class.

Muuuuh 8 goals

How many goals does Wallly the incredible have this year

 

[NotProkofievian]

I did

 

[Mrb1p]

I cant believe you two wankers had Wahle so high

Yall almost had me too

 

[NotProkofievian]

I cant believe you two wankers had Wahle so high

Yall almost had me too

First of all, I'm not sure why you're choosing to talk shit about Tkachuk when you had him 8th. Are you really trying to go to war over a 2 spot difference?

You had Khovanov over Denisenko. You had Wise 30th. You had Miller 42nd.

 

[Mrb1p]

First of all, I'm not sure why you're choosing to talk **** about Tkachuk when you had him 8th. Are you really trying to go to war over a 2 spot difference?

You had Khovanov over Denisenko. You had Wise 30th. You had Miller 42nd.

None of em as ridiculous as Wahlstrom over Tkachook

 

[Andrei79]

Necas over Pettersson is the most ridiculous thing of all. By a mile. Now that the case is closed. Amateurs sometimes make stupid rankings. Next.

 

[NotProkofievian]

None of em as ridiculous as Wahlstrom over Tkachook

Again, you don't get to talk shit about Tkachuk when you wouldn't have drafted him with Chicago's pick, much less Ottawa's.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Necas over Pettersson is the most ridiculous thing of all. By a mile. Now that the case is closed. Amateurs sometimes make stupid rankings. Next.

We'll see bro, Necas was pretty good in the AHL this year.

 

[phillytennis]

Necas over Pettersson is the most ridiculous thing of all. By a mile. Now that the case is closed. Amateurs sometimes make stupid rankings. Next.

Agreed....that is why they are amateurs...

 

[Mrb1p]

Again, you don't get to talk **** about Tkachuk when you wouldn't have drafted him with Chicago's pick, much less Ottawa's.

I think Boqvist and Kotkaniemi were both better, isnt there any merit to that? Both have higher ceiling at more important positions In retrospect, I dont know why I didnt have him 5th though. Probably fueled by the hate he got on this board.

 

[Mrb1p]

Necas over Pettersson is the most ridiculous thing of all. By a mile. Now that the case is closed. Amateurs sometimes make stupid rankings. Next.

Id say a certain rant about a certain 25th overall pick on draft day is high up there

 

[Mrb1p]

We'll see bro, Necas was pretty good in the AHL this year.

Pretty good is an understatement.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I think Boqvist and Kotkaniemi were both better, isnt there any merit to that? Both have higher ceiling at more important positions In retrospect, I dont know why I didnt have him 5th though. Probably fueled by the hate he got on this board.

You had the exact same arguments that we had. That's why this outburst is so bizarre on your part. It's opportunistic sniping without the opportunity. I could understand it if you had him 3rd. But you didn't. So

 

[Mrb1p]

You had the exact same arguments that we had. That's why this outburst is so bizarre on your part. It's opportunistic sniping without the opportunity. I could understand it if you had him 3rd. But you didn't. So

Not sure I had the same arguments. Mine were a lot more nuanced. I didnt want him at 3, but I acknowledged his value for other teams.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

@DramaticGloveSave

This is your moment.

I appear to have been correct in my assessments of both Tkachuk and Poehling. In alot of ways, they are kind of similar, both are all around types who check every box (size, skating, skills, compete, IQ), but spent their respective pre draft seasons in the NCAA playing against men and didn't put up huge production. Traits over stats, every damn time! Also don't over value laser rifle shots, those shots are hard to get off in the NHL. A quick release is way more valuable.

Now everyones lesson is done for the day

 

[WeThreeKings]

I remember people flexing on me when David Perron made the NHL before Pacioretty.

Oops.

That's why you don't start stroking your chicken before all the roosting is done.

 

[Andrei79]

I appear to have been correct in my assessments of both Tkachuk and Poehling. In alot of ways, they are kind of similar, both are all around types who check every box (size, skating, skills, compete, IQ), but spent their respective pre draft seasons in the NCAA playing against men and didn't put up huge production. Traits over stats, every damn time! Also don't over value laser rifle shots, those shots are hard to get off in the NHL. A quick release is way more valuable.

Now everyones lesson is done for the day

I did a post-mortem on a few of the prospects I ranked, but most notably Tkachuk.

What's strange is looking back, my scouting on him was on point, so something happened in undervaluing or overvaluing certain traits/abilities/positions combined to a group-think process. One of the things I based myself on was the production, amongst others. But again, looking back, he actually had excellent production. Freshman don't often get to be a key part of these high end NCAA teams, yet Tkachuk played himself on the top line and ended up almost at ppg. But even more important in that production is that all of these points were translatable to the pro game. They were a "real" 30 points. The same happened with Hayton, who's game I liked quite a bit, but ended up dropping due to "upside" concerns. At the end of the day, a player who already plays a pro game has less obstacles and likely, by definition, has a good amount of upside already.

 

[WeThreeKings]

First of all, I'm not sure why you're choosing to talk **** about Tkachuk when you had him 8th. Are you really trying to go to war over a 2 spot difference?

You had Khovanov over Denisenko. You had Wise 30th. You had Miller 42nd.

Wait, he disrespects Tkachuk by putting him at 8??

 

[Andrei79]

I remember people flexing on me when David Perron made the NHL before Pacioretty.

Oops.

That's why you don't start stroking your chicken before all the roosting is done.

If your process is sound and you're consistent in what you look for, you'll miss a number of great payers, but you'll likely end up with a high average over a set period of years. That's kind of the point of drafting, a higher average mixed in with elite level players who you accumulate so that they reach their prime relatively close to each other. If they don't, then if they do show upside, you can trade them for players that are already there.

An example: if I take the example of my shit list last year, at the end of the day, if I was picking top 10, I'd end up with Kotkaniemi, Kravtsov or Hughes, because those were my favorite players. Between 10-20, we'd be looking at Dobson, Farabee, Smith or Miller. Between 20-30, Lundkvist, Sandin or Alexeyev, and so on. This is kind of @NotProkofievian s point about his "30s" list. We all list players kind of because we have to, but we have our favorites who, gun to our heads, are the ones we'd draft if we worked for a real team.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Wait, he disrespects Tkachuk by putting him at 8??

Yeah, but like, it was a nuanced 8, ya know what I mean?

 

[NotProkofievian]

If your process is sound and you're consistent in what you look for, you'll miss a number of great payers, but you'll likely end up with a high average over a set period of years. That's kind of the point of drafting, a higher average mixed in with elite level players who you accumulate so that they reach their prime relatively close to each other. If they don't, then if they do show upside, you can trade them for players that are already there.

An example: if I take the example of my **** list last year, at the end of the day, if I was picking top 10, I'd end up with Kotkaniemi, Kravtsov or Hughes, because those were my favorite players. Between 10-20, we'd be looking at Dobson, Farabee, Smith or Miller. Between 20-30, Lundkvist, Sandin or Alexeyev, and so on. This is kind of @NotProkofievian s point about his "30s" list. We all list players kind of because we have to, but we have our favorites who, gun to our heads, are the ones we'd draft if we worked for a real team.

The truth is also, sometimes and unfortunately, not in the data, no matter what decision rule you use. If we're being honest, Poehling's 2019 WJC was the first real sign of statistical life for him. This also goes for traits, too, not just stats. Benoit Pouliot's traits are a lot better than his production would indicate. As are Beaulieu's. There's just nothing you can do if a guy is better or worse than his traits/stats beside making your call and hoping for the best.

This is the case with Newhook this year for example. Anyone feeling totally at ease with him as a pick is an idiot. The upside is just so compelling, though, you just have to take your swing and risk missing badly.

 

[Saxon]

1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Kotkaniemi
4. Zadina
5. Tkachuk
6. Hughes
7. Dobson
8. Whalstrom
9. Boqvist
10. Smith
11. Bouchard
12. Kravstov
13. Farabee
14. Hayton
15. Kupari
16. Denisenko
17. Miller
18. Veleno
19. Berggren
20. Bokk
21. Miller
22. Wilde
23. Wise
24. Kaut
25. Alexeyev
26. Dellandrea
27. Sandin
28. Thomas
29. Noel
30. Addison
31. Lundestrom
All this reminiscing about last your I had to go back and look lol it's interesting to see what a difference a year makes lol

 

[Habs Halifax]

1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Kotkaniemi
4. Zadina
5. Tkachuk
6. Hughes
7. Dobson
8. Whalstrom
9. Boqvist
10. Smith
11. Bouchard
12. Kravstov
13. Farabee
14. Hayton
15. Kupari
16. Denisenko
17. Miller
18. Veleno
19. Berggren
20. Bokk
21. Miller
22. Wilde
23. Wise
24. Kaut
25. Alexeyev
26. Dellandrea
27. Sandin
28. Thomas
29. Noel
30. Addison
31. Lundestrom
All this reminiscing about last your I had to go back and look lol it's interesting to see what a difference a year makes lol

Lavoie missed the 2018 draft by a few days. If he was available last draft, he goes top 10. Fast forward 12 months to today and some don't take him in the top 20. 100% true, interesting how a year changes things.

Watch out for our prospects turning pro next year... Poehling, Suzuki, Brook, Primeau, Teasdale. The story will be different in a year.

 

[Scriptor]

Necas over Pettersson is the most ridiculous thing of all. By a mile. Now that the case is closed. Amateurs sometimes make stupid rankings. Next.

Happens to professionals too. Drafting is a bit of a crap shoot, always.