Movies: Dracula, Nosferatu, and other vampires

Pranzo Oltranzista

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Oct 18, 2017
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After my notorious threads on the giallo, the Panic films, and the Hellraiser films, I thought I'd capitalize on the release of Nosferatu and launch a new glorious discussion on the vampire subgenre.

(I am perfectly aware there's a horror films thread, of course, I just like things to be ordered)

If others join, I'll try to keep up with everybody's ratings and post some kind of HF ranking of our favorite films. And if not, well, enjoy the long post anyway. I thought I'd start with a few of my own - please add to it, and don't feel like you have to post long comments with your ratings of the films.

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Nosferatu (Eggers, 2024) – Now don't get me wrong, I liked the film. Visually, it's almost everything I was hoping for from Eggers – the first half especially puts the gothic back in gothic horror, and with this intimidating Orlock as an undead Vlad the Impaler, it's a pretty good horror film. It's a beautiful remake, an aesthetic feast, but it didn't feel as much more than that. Everything seems masterfully crafted and calculated, making for a great take on an already impressive original work, but weakened on meaning. The two first iterations of Nosferatu were German films that were of uttermost signifiance. Herzog insisted his remake should take place in Germany, and insisted that the German version of his film (he was forced to make an English version too) was the authentic one. Because his film was, for the most part, about Germany. Eggers' Wisborg has no metaphorical value. I guess the fact that his film comes out four years after a pandemic is something to ponder (the original film was also released four years after a pandemic), but the plague didn't feel of much importance in the film, and second fiddle to Ellen's relation to the vampire. And there lies the major difference between Eggers' take and the other adaptations of Dracula: Ellen is responsible for inviting the demon, not to her own demise, but to everyone's - something I'm sure Herzog wished he could have thought of himself, in relation to his film's political stance on evil (well, surely the men would have been the ones inviting the vampire). Made in the 80s or 90s, Eggers' change to the story would have been swept under the AIDS paranoia umbrella in which the vampire film floundered for a while (the sexual longings of a young Ellen being ultimately responsible for the disease) – Coppola's film probably being the ultimate example of this reading. Made today, I fear that this change to the story is only symptomatic of a void in resonance. Making Nosferatu about one character's tragedy is making it a lesser work. It's not a political film (Eggers maintaining the film in Germany hints at it being only about making a remake), and it's not a philosophical film anymore either (I'm not discussing it in my comment on Herzog's take, but his film could be used as kindling for philosophy professors). I guess the question about evil being from within or from beyond (quoted from memory) could have been a starting point to dig into Eggers' film, I just couldn't feed on anything much, other than the representation of woman sexuality and I couldn't get out of it more than some retrograde ideas (stuff you'd usually find in the lesser vampire films). I'm sure I'll get back to it at some point and find more juice. 6.5/10

Nosferatu the Vampyre
(Nosferatu - Phantom der Nacht, Herzog, 1979) – I used to, when I was younger, enjoy Herzog's take on this material a lot. Watching it today, I'm not so sure. It's kitsch, and it's camp, to a point where it's not much fun anymore. The sets are cheap, and the cast feels like a problem too. Bruno Ganz is way too old to play Jonathan (and people keep telling him “young man”), Kinski's play has always been more weird than efficient, here you feel like it should be enough, but not really (his pathetic Dracula is in tone, but some scenes are just bad), and Adjani is surely the prettiest Mina ever, but the artistic choices of having her play an homage to the silent era movies is often laughable as she is alone doing it (note that this version of Mina, or Ellen in Murnau's film, is named Lucy... for some reason, Herzog insists on linking his film to Murnau's Nosferaru, and insists that it should be a German story, but decides to go back to the English names from the novel, and then switches the female characters, something that could be an allusion to the 1927 revision of the stage version of the novel or to the first Christopher Lee Hammer film, but I couldn't think of any significant gain). Still, there's some very intriguing ideas in Herzog's diversion of Stoker's tale (including the change to Van Helsing's character, now a skeptical man of science). The classic Dracula, like a bunch of its iterations, comes with two major tropes: first, it's a racist tale about a foreigner (probably Jew) who brings pest to our lands ; second, it proposes a threat to the male order, with said foreigner coming to rape and kill our women, usually restored by some male agency with phallic weapons (I'll probably come back to that in the following comments, as I think Stoker is very much responsible for the first of these tropes, but his novel's use of the second is a lot more subtle and smart than most of the films that came out of it). Herzog's take does none of that, it is chaotic and cynic, it does not look to protect the bourgeoisie from outside threats, it shows no love for a society that will anyway turn to evil (Jonathan becomes a vampire), and will defend its worst agents (they quickly arrest Van Helsing after he kills Dracula – a doubly absurd decision as they have no more structure, police nor jail, to do so). And if in Murnau's film the death of the foreigner is enough to stop the plague, it's clearly not the case for Herzog, as the film ends with Jonathan showing his teeth. The second trope is put aside in all of the Nosferatu films, as the creature doesn't fall to a manly stake through the heart, but following its own weakness towards a woman - it's especially true of Herzog's film, where all the males characters are absolutely useless. Herzog's cynicism is such that you'll wonder how far away from the original gothic horror you've wandered, watching a sequence straight out of a surrealist or Panic film, with the bourgeois enjoying a meal together surrounded by rats. Overall, it's a very uneven film, that sometimes borders on greatness, but its shortcomings often make it feel almost ridiculous. 6/10

Regarding the remakes, I'd say Herzog had a handful of great ideas, but mostly poor execution, as Eggers had amazing execution (even though the story could have been tighter), but very few ideas. I'm sure I'll rewatch his film in a few years and find something more to it, there is room to grow by at least a point.

Nosferatu: A Symphony of Horror (Nosferatu, eine Symphonie des Grauens, Murnau, 1922) – I don't think I have much to add to the dense literature around this one. It truly is an aesthetic masterpiece, and a great example of how horror narratives can be used to translate social fears and angst, especially considering that most of it goes beyond and above the filmmakers' intentions, or emanates from the original source novel (I don't think Murnau was necessarily a racist, but his film definitely conveys racist tropes). The film appears in a period of great distress that's perfect for horror, it echoes the devastation that WW1 was for Germany, the sanitary crisis of the Spanish flu, but most of all, the rise of antisemitism and the spread of the “stab in the back myth”. 9/10

Dracula
(Browning, 1931) – I didn't want to go back to this one, but felt I had to. It was a defining film for horror movies, of course, but it is still hard to enjoy as an adaptation of Stoker's novel. The sexual repression and the association of sexuality and death, important themes in the source material that could be linked to the spread of syphilis in Victorian England, are present here, but whereas Jonathan's desires and weakness were the first of many problems in the novel, here only the female sexuality is problematic. The three brides are there, but Renfield – who replaces Jonathan as the Count's visitor in this version – doesn't even have the time to see them, never experiencing the “languorous ecstacy” and “burning desire that they would kiss” him of the original Jonathan. And when bitten-Mina later goes down on Jonathan, he's having none of that. Men here are pure and heroic. The basic formula of the great male vampire hunter plunging his big stake in the bodies of lustful women in order to save their souls finds its timid origin here (I say timid because the longing of women for the vampire's bite is of course very prude, they are mostly guilty of letting him approach them in their beds – especially Lucy who lets her window open for Dracula's bat form to enter). Jonathan's desire is also absent from Horror of Dracula and Count Dracula discussed below: in Franco's film, Jonathan is already unconscious when the brides show up, and in the Fisher one, Jonathan only meets a single bride, and not once glances at her plunging neckline! (Argento's Jonathan does fall for the naked bride, but his film is a complete mess anyway). The choice to keep Bela Lugosi, who had played Dracula in the 1927 stage version, as the titular character also had an unfortunate impact on most of the following iterations of the“monster”. The original Dracula had nothing to do with this mundane seducer. In fact, Eggers' Nosferatu is probably the creature closest to what Stoker had in mind. All in all, yes, probably an important film for the horror genre, but that kind of ruined the character for the longest time – a very sad following to Murnau's brilliant effort. I am aware my rating will offend the purists, but I'm really not a fan. 3.5/10

Horror of Dracula
(Fisher, 1958) – I hadn't seen a Hammer film in the longest time, but I had to include at least one here. Of the Christopher Lee films, this is the closest to the source novel, and it opens just like it, with Jonathan Harker's journal retelling his arrival to Count Dracula's castle, where he is welcomed as Dracula's new, euhm, librarian – but his true intention is to get close to the count in order to kill him (!). So yeah, not that close to the novel. It's a variation on Stoker's fiction, recycling mostly some characters, and the “lore” of the vampire. It's a great example of the male anxiety a lot of these films try to exploit, with Cushing as the great vampire hunter who comes and help us take back control over our women's lust and desires (they just can't help themselves – and hysterical creatures too, one even needs a good slap to calm down). There's some blood work, but the ideas of contamination, of the disease spreading and of the plague, are again out of the picture. It's a pretty bad film, but kind of fun. 4/10

Count Dracula
(Nachts, wenn Dracula erwacht, Franco, 1970) – I watched this one because a few sources pointed to it as the “most accurate” adaptation of the Stoker novel, something that seems to have convinced Christopher Lee to sign up for the project. I think the lineup was meant to be impressive. Whatever you think of Christopher Lee's Dracula, he gives the film some credibility. The rest of the cast doesn't help much, but you have Pink Panther's Commissioner Dreyfus as Van Helsing, and Kinski (this time as Renfield, so at least he's supposed to be crazy). Of course, you also have an insistent Jesus Franco himself as some valet (and as usual, he is absolutely terrible), and a handful of his regulars (not that Lee and Kinski were complete strangers to his filmography), including Paul Muller, Jack Taylor, Fred Williams, Maria Rohm, and (thank you Jesus) Soledad Miranda – making it, despite the absence of gore and nudity, a true Franco film. That's probably a bad thing for most, but I like a few of his films. He was (he had to be, as he worked with no money) an inventive director, with very poor results. Here he's kept in check by a more serious and grounded approach with no place for extravaganza. Renfield's failed escape from the mental institution might be the exception, but the editing almost works, which is more than enough for Franco. It is a somewhat faithful adaptation, Christopher Lee seemed very please to at last play the Count as he was meant to be, but it goes astray in many occasions, mainly to save on runtime (also, the whole Renfield character is rewritten, and you'll wonder why he was kept in). On an intertextual level, the film is interesting as a bridge between the Hammer films and their source material. It has a few nice moments, considering the very limited means, and if you are aware of what you are getting into, it's not a complete waste. 3.5/10

Dracula 3D
(Argento, 2012) – I watched this one thinking it was an adaptation from the novel, but it's not at all. It's inspired by the Hammer Draculas, which didn't care much for the source novel. Diversions like the whole story taking place in Transylvania, or Jonathan Harker being hired as Dracula's librarian, come from the Christopher Lee films. Strangely, the idea that Mina could be the count's reincarnated wife might be coming from the Coppola film, one Argento doesn't seem to care much for. Anyway, whatever inspired this, the result is the same, which is a pure load of crap, a strong contender for Argento's worst offering. Some of the visual effects must be seen to be believed, they feel like they were taken out of some sublevel 1996 video games. Dracula getting into a fist fight with old timer Rutger Hauer's Van Helsing doesn't help his lack of charisma and grace. The gore is cheap, the nudity is weird, I think most people should avoid this one. 1.5/10

Fright Night
(Holland, 1985) - Not a Dracula adaptation, and certainly a minor film considering the whole subgenre, Fright Night is normally bundled together with films like TheLost Boys or Near Dark as teen-oriented soft horror, with younger heroes trying to protect their already fragile families (relying on struggling single parents – in this case, a mother who has to work night shifts). I would argue that, if Near Dark is certainly the better horror film of the three, Fright Night is the one that's the most iconic of its times. Not great, made in good fun (and it is quite fun), it's a postmodern take on the vampire film, mostly alluding to the Hammer films (and not in the most subtle ways, its vampire hunter is named Peter Vincent). It offers a little of everything from the scale of concrete intertextual relations: allusions, parody, quotes and it uses them to different effects, from comedy to distanciation. Of course, the reflexive value is pretty thin and you won't find much more than a little jab towards the rise and predominance of slasher and gore films – still, the actor-as-actor reprising his role (from the films in the film) in the film you are now watching is a mise-en-abyme effective enough to invite its (young) spectator to consider the film in relation to the exterior works it is linked to. A thin level of complexity that was lacking from the previous few entries in this post! As a vampire flick, it's really not that bad either. It does better than quite a few more serious vampire movies on some of their tropes (notably in having Ed be tempted by the vampire and giving in to the invitation of a comforting embrace under its coat), and diverts others in dumb fun ways. It uses, not without irony, the sex and death relation of the common vampire dramas to increase the tension of teenagers' sexual awakening, making it a light coming-of-age tale with a twist. 5/10

I know I am missing a lot of important films, maybe most notably Coppola's take on Dracula, which I like a lot. I'll get back to it, I felt it was enough to get the ball rolling.
 
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Indrid Cold

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I'm probably way in the minority here, but my fave Vamp film is Interview With a Vampire. 8.5/10

I can't even explain why. I saw Lestat as a poor man's Dracula. I guess making them relatable works for me. At the same time, I like the idea of them being pure monsters, like in The Strain.
 
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kihei

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Wonderful commentary on some key vampire films.

I'll start with my top ten and then add random comments. One point that I should make up front is that though I have read Bram Stoker's Dracula two or three itmes (hard to remember), I am not at all a purist about the story, though I was very interested in your far more precise reading.

Nosferatu (Murnau)
Vampyr (Dreyer)
(easily my top two, after which the order is current but highly malleable)

Only Lovers Left Alive--vampires suffering from ennui--what a premise. Great performances by Swinton and Hiddleston, with only the final shot in the movie being a straight genre move)
The Hunger (really haunting story and for sheer beautiful people it is hard to top Deneuve, Bowie and Sarandon in their prime)
Let the Right One In (just really got to me--childhood and vampirism a potent combination)
A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night (loved the atmosphere and Amirpour's unpolished but vibrant talent on display)
Dracula (gotta give Bella his due. Holds up well, even the camp seems endearing. Plus, I like my vampires to turn into bats)
What We Do in the Shadows (One of the flat-out funniest movies I have ever seen. I seldom laugh out loud even in comedies but I did in this one several times)
Addicted (Abel Ferrara and Lily Taylor: unique approach full of grit)
El Conde (Pablo Larrain--brilliantly atmospheric and a great notion, General Pinochet as a vampire)

Miscellaneous comments:

Soft spot for Blood and Roses, one of the first Euro vampire movies that I saw as a kid. It's Vadim, so there is that to contend with, but he is less tasteless than usual and the movie has a good story and tons of atmosphere as I remember it.

Chronos: don't know why I don't like it more. I think I find Guillermo Del Toro too cozy or something. If he was a folk singer, he would have been Burl Ives.

Black Sunday: Barbara Steele was always fun. Plus a shot in slow motion of the count's carriage riding through the night may be the best single shot in the genre.

Shadow of the Vampire with a great turn by Willem Dafoe as Max Schrek would be #11 on my list.

Gary Oldman made for a terrific Dracula in Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula, but the movie, despite some beautiful images, seems flabby and overblown to me.

Really liked Herzog's Nosfertu but it somehow seems a little leaden compared to the old one and the new one, which will probably make my top ten eventually.

All the Christopher Lee vampire movies, last seen in my distant youth, tend to blend together but he was a great Dracula.

Really disliked:

From Dusk to Dawn
Interview with the Vampire
Thirst
(being Park Chan-wook and all, one would think I would love it, but didn't)
Blade
The Kate Beckinsale things
The Twilight things
The Fearless Vampire Killers (Polanski's humour is usually pleasingly droll, but not here--the movie just went thud)

Underrated:

Najda
Byzantium
30 Days of Night
We Are What We Are
Near Dark


Don't know if underrated is the right word for these two, but they're something to see

The Frank Langella/Kate Nilligan Dracula takes the romantic notion of Dracula to its most extreme. Kind of interesting, though.

Blood for Dracula (The Warhol/Morrissey combo makes it worth seeing for its own demented sake with a performance by Udo Kier that has been likened, accurately, I think, to having Animal the Muppet play Dracula)
 
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Pranzo Oltranzista

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Oct 18, 2017
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I'm probably way in the minority here, but my fave Vamp film is Interview With a Vampire. 8.5/10

I can't even explain why. I saw Lestat as a poor man's Dracula. I guess making them relatable works for me. At the same time, I like the idea of them being pure monsters, like in The Strain.

Well, I like it quite a bit too and would probably have it around 6, which is a pretty good rating on my scale. I'll try to watch it again in the coming weeks. Queen of the Damned was something else...

Wonderful commentary on some key vampire films.

I'll start with my top ten and then add random comments. One point that I should make up front is that though I have read Bram Stoker's Dracula two or three itmes (hard to remember), I am not at all a purist about the story, though I was very interested in your far more precise reading.

Nosferatu (Murnau)
Vampyr (Dreyer)
(easily my top two, after which the order is current but highly malleable)

Only Lovers Left Alive--vampires suffering from ennui--what a premise. Great performances by Swinton and Hiddleston, with only the final shot in the movie being a straight genre move)
The Hunger (really haunting story and for sheer beautiful people it is hard to top Deneuve, Bowie and Sarandon in their prime)
Let the Right One In (just really got to me--childhood and vampirism a potent combination)
A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night (loved the atmosphere and Amirpour's unpolished but vibrant talent on display)
Dracula (gotta give Bella his due. Holds up well, even the camp seems endearing. Plus, I like my vampires to turn into bats)
What We Do in the Shadows (One of the flat-out funniest movies I have ever seen. I seldom laugh out loud even in comedies but I did in this one several times)
Addicted (Abel Ferrara and Lily Taylor: unique approach full of grit)
El Conde (Pablo Larrain--brilliantly atmospheric and a great notion, General Pinochet as a vampire)

Miscellaneous comments:

Soft spot for Blood and Roses, one of the first Euro vampire movies that I saw as a kid. It's Vadim, so there is that to contend with, but he is less tasteless than usual and the movie has a good story and tons of atmosphere as I remember it.

Chronos: don't know why I don't like it more. I think I find Guillermo Del Toro too cozy or something. If he was a folk singer, he would have been Burl Ives.

Black Sunday: Barbara Steele was always fun. Plus a shot in slow motion of the count's carriage riding through the night may be the best single shot in the genre.

Shadow of the Vampire with a great turn by Willem Dafoe as Max Schrek would be #11 on my list.

Gary Oldman made for a terrific Dracula in Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula, but the movie, despite some beautiful images, seems flabby and overblown to me.

Really liked Herzog's Nosfertu but it somehow seems a little leaden compared to the old one and the new one, which will probably make my top ten eventually.

All the Christopher Lee vampire movies, last seen in my distant youth, tend to blend together but he was a great Dracula.

Really disliked:

From Dusk to Dawn
Interview with the Vampire
Thirst
(being Park Chan-wook and all, one would think I would love it, but didn't)
Blade
The Kate Beckinsale things
The Twilight things
The Fearless Vampire Killers (Polanski's humour is usually pleasingly droll, but not here--the movie just went thud)

Underrated:

Najda
Byzantium
30 Days of Night
We Are What We Are
Near Dark


Don't know if underrated is the right word for these two, but they're something to see

The Frank Langella/Kate Nilligan Dracula takes the romantic notion of Dracula to its most extreme. Kind of interesting, though.

Blood for Dracula (The Warhol/Morrissey combo makes it worth seeing for its own demented sake with a performance by Udo Kier that has been likened, accurately, I think, to having Animal the Muppet play Dracula)

That's very interesting picks. I probably agree with you on the first two, and after that not so much (I commented on Only Lovers Left Alive here and had it at 5/10). You have a few films in there I need to watch again for sure (The Hunger and Addicted), and a few I haven't seen, but will (A Girl Walks Out Alone, which you already suggested to me, El Conde). I haven't seen What We Do In the Shadows, but for some reason I have very little interest. Anyway, thanks for the great selection, a great start for everybody.

Oh, and I would love to have your approximate ratings on these films!

My love of the Legend of the 7 Golden Vampires is going to completely skew these stats. :D

Bring it!!! I'll probably have a few that will skew things up too.
 

Pranzo Oltranzista

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Oct 18, 2017
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Found one here too.
1.5/10 for Sundown: The Vampire in Retreat (Hickox, 1989). Unbearable crap.

And here.
4/10 for Central Park Drifter (Graveyard Shift, Ciccoritti, 1987).

Fun fact, I wrote in both comments that these films contained some of the worst acting ever. :)
 

Unholy Diver

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I enjoyed Renfield quite a bit, and even though the vampire was more of a supporting character it was Nic Cage, at his best, or maybe worst, but either way the action was fun and reminiscent of Shoot Em Up, just with Nic Cage as Dracula, so you really can't go wrong
 
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Osprey

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Feb 18, 2005
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I know I am missing a lot of important films...
I should say! It's hard to take this thread seriously when you fail to even mention the contribution of one of cinema's most legendary directors. :eyeroll:

dracula2.jpg
 
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Pranzo Oltranzista

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Oct 18, 2017
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One small addition to @kihei 's post is that there are two versions of Let the Right One In. I did not think the American remake was bad by any means, but the 2008 original from Sweden is the one worth seeking out, imo.
I think both are interesting, and they both benefit from their relation to the other, which is quite a feat.
 
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HanSolo

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I just wanted to mention it but Van Helsing, on reflection, is such a bad movie. Like laughably bad. But I thought it was so awesome when I was a pre-teen.

Also, seeing Interview with the Vampire in the same tier as Twilight is wild to me.
 
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x Tame Impala

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I just wanted to mention it but Van Helsing, on reflection, is such a bad movie. Like laughably bad. But I thought it was so awesome when I was a pre-teen.

Also, seeing Interview with the Vampire in the same tier as Twilight is wild to me.
"Interview with a Vampire" isn't a bad movie, it's just not as great as I used to think it was. I was younger obviously when I first saw it so it was cool seeing Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt be vampires. In retrospect those casting choices were a problem, Pitt was too wooden and Cruise wasn't right for the role.

I liked the themes and plot of the movie and still do like them but I re-watched this one a few months ago and was surprised to see how much I've soured on it.
 

x Tame Impala

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Mrs. Impala and I are going to watch FFC’s “Dracula” tonight because of this thread. I haven’t seen it in well over a decade and I hardly remember much. Hopefully it’s good!
 
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Indrid Cold

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"Interview with a Vampire" isn't a bad movie, it's just not as great as I used to think it was. I was younger obviously when I first saw it so it was cool seeing Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt be vampires. In retrospect those casting choices were a problem, Pitt was too wooden and Cruise wasn't right for the role.

I liked the themes and plot of the movie and still do like them but I re-watched this one a few months ago and was surprised to see how much I've soured on it.

Wow, I thought they were both very good. Maybe Cruise's best acting performance, where he's not playing a version of himself (like his other movies). Dunst was excellent and pulled off her character. Even Banderas, who I usually can't stand, was interesting.
 

BigBadBruins7708

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on vampires, the original Salem's Lot miniseries holds up really well (also kind of funny that some of the vampire makeup looks like the deadites from Evil Dead). The new one isnt bad but has awful pacing. They tried to cram it all into the run time and its obvious.

still want to track down somewhere to watch the 2004 Rob Lowe remake of it.
 

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