Salary Cap: Dr Dubas Cap Thread: He wants the Nurse

[Empoleon8771]

Can you elaborate?
To me, this makes perfect sense bc they Pens are trying to weaponize their available cap space by adding assets by taking bad contracts. Seems pretty smart to me..

There are plenty of people here who are flat out saying no to Nurse under any circumstances, even if Edmonton is adding. That makes no sense to me.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Girard and Novak, yeah they'd be no brainers to go out. I'm just unsure of whether Vancouver would be okay taking back Graves' deal. On one hand, I can see it being a positive for them because his AAV is higher than his yearly salary. For a cheap owner like Aquillini that's trying to cut salaries, that's a positive. On the other hand, it seems like Aquillini wants to just get rid of as much as possible, so he might flat out say "I'd rather you get nothing back than take Graves back and get assets". Tough to say with where Vancouver is at. You'd prefer to not soil the Nurse trade by including Graves there, so I think Graves in the EP deal would make more sense. But it's just tough to say with the shitshow Vancouver is in right now.

That said, if you could do:

-Girard to someone for a pick

I see many of your proposals about Girard being moved out.
I believe that Dubas likes Girard and I feel like he'll be here for the next couple of years barring something that knocks Dubas' socks off

 

[Jag68Sid87]

So, McDavid tells Bowman, "get us a damn goaltender" and Bowman turns that into Tristan Jarry...and it's Connor McDavid's fault?

Interesting take.

 

[SEALBound]

Me messing around for no other reason other than it's Friday.

Nurse + 26 2nd for Graves + 28 2nd
Girard + Rakell to SJS for Buffalo's 1st + Goodrow + Cameron Lund
Novak + Koivunen + 27 2nd to Vancouver for EP40
Brazeau to MTL for Struble

Penguins now have 20, 22, 39, 52, and 54
20+22 to STL for 11ov (very similar to last years price for 12). Select Bjorck
54+52 to CAL for 35ov
35ov to Ottawa for Spence+87ov
39ov select Ryder Cali

McGroarty-Sid-Rust
Chinakhov-EP40-Malkin
Soderblom-Kindel-Goodrow
Dewar-Lizotte-XXXXX

Wotherspoon-EK
Struble-Letang
Nurse-Spence

Silov-Murashov

While adding Bjorck, Cali, and Lund to the prospect pool in addition to whoever else. Final lineup may depend on if Bjorck makes the jump?

 

[Ugene Magic]

Just adding a RD and then doing nothing else with the defense is the worst option of all of them. Girard is a terrible fit with this team, Solovyov isn't a regular, Graves is an AHLer and the only fallback option in the AHL is Pickering. Not only that, but you can't even argue it from the "we're giving youth a chance" angle because you're blocking Brunicke by adding a RD.

Dubas said it would be a major focus in him improving the defense this off-season. What you're suggesting is basically just letting Shea walk and replacing Clifton while doing nothing else. That's not an "improvement".

Even taking out the Nurse discussion entirely, Girard shouldn't be in the organization next year, Solovyov should be a 7th defenseman and they need to play Brunicke unless you specifically want to get a better fit for a partner that needs it (like Nurse).

So, you wait until something else shakes loose down the line. You can add that RD that can be here after Letang/Karlson and evetually be there to help show the ropes to the young guys.

Way worse is taking on a terrible contract just because your LD is in a bad way, so your excuse is to make it worse.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I see many of your proposals about Girard being moved out.
I believe that Dubas likes Girard and I feel like he'll be here for the next couple of years barring something that knocks Dubas' socks off

I am curious BB, why do you feel that way?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

There are plenty of people here who are flat out saying no to Nurse under any circumstances, even if Edmonton is adding. That makes no sense to me.

It's frankly unfortunate the cap is rising bc the Pens could be power brokers for all kinds of deals where they get a bunch of picks/assets for taking on poor GM's choices.

Why you wouldn't capitalize on all this cap space would be dereliction of duty by Dubas.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I see many of your proposals about Girard being moved out.
I believe that Dubas likes Girard and I feel like he'll be here for the next couple of years barring something that knocks Dubas' socks off

Tbh I think Dubas liked the idea of Girard but was unhappy with how he played. With his comments about the issues with the defense, I really wouldn't be surprised if he was unhappy with what Girard provided for the Penguins and wants to move on from him. Personally I want him moved, I hate his fit here and they're better off getting a pick to sell him to someone who needs him more.

So, McDavid tells Bowman, "get us a damn goaltender" and Bowman turns that into Tristan Jarry...and it's Connor McDavid's fault?

Interesting take.

Where did I say it was only McDavid's fault? I'm saying McDavid definitely has some responsibility here.

So, you wait until something else shakes loose down the line. You can add that RD that can be here after Letang/Karlson and evetually be there to help show the ropes to the young guys.

Way worse is taking on a terrible contract just because your LD is in a bad way, so your excuse is to make it worse.

Like I said, doing nothing and "waiting for something to shake loose" is the worst option they can go with. You thinking Nurse is a worse option doesn't mean your option isn't bad either.

Dubas' own words say that your option isn't something they'd be doing.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Can you elaborate?
To me, this makes perfect sense bc they Pens are trying to weaponize their available cap space by adding assets by taking bad contracts. Seems pretty smart to me..

If they had more recent assets then that would be a great idea.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I am curious BB, why do you feel that way?

You can look at the Girard trade in a couple ways:

1. Dubas was happy to get any decent defender plus a pick for Kulak.
2. Dubas targeted Girard to hedge his bets against Letang and EK. For Letang it was a hedge against his play continuing to crater. For EK it was a hedge against him being traded this offseason. I'm not saying that I think EK will be traded, but Dubas put himself in a position where that's an option. If Girard wasn't here, I don't think Dubas would entertain sending out EK.

I have a feeling it was more #2 vs #1.

 

[Empoleon8771]

IMO, the absolute bear minimum they can do with the defense entering next year is:

-Sell Girard to someone for a pick
-Get paid a pick by Minnesota to take on Middleton
-Trade picks to Chicago for Del Mastro

Middleton-Karlsson
Wotherspoon-Brunicke
Del Mastro-Letang

Is this defense good? Not really, but it least is young with some upside. You're gambling on:

-Karlsson being good enough to help Middleton bounce back, and hopefully be able to flip him for value down the line
-Wotherspoon being good enough to make a stable 2nd pair with Brunicke
-Letang bouncing back after being demoted to the 3rd pair and being paired with a good fit and young LD

But IMO those are reasonable gambles for this team to be making. If Del Mastro ends up a good fit, maybe you have your 2nd pair long-term with Del Mastro-Brunicke. That lets you sell Wotherspoon as a rental next year and promote Pickering to the 3rd pair LD spot. If Letang getting easier minutes can help his game rebound, maybe that Pickering-Letang pair ends up a good 3rd pair option for the second half of 2026-2027 and 2027-2028. If Middleton bounces back, that top pair should be pretty solid too. I'm pretty sure Middleton-Karlsson was already a pretty solid pair on San Jose before Middleton was traded to Minnesota.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Tbh I think Dubas liked the idea of Girard but was unhappy with how he played. With his comments about the issues with the defense, I really wouldn't be surprised if he was unhappy with what Girard provided for the Penguins and wants to move on from him. Personally I want him moved, I hate his fit here and they're better off getting a pick to sell him to someone who needs him more.

I too question Girard's fit, but I also blame some of that on his partners. While it wasn't consistent, there were pockets where Girard played well for this team. I can see his potential, but it just seems like he'll never put it all together. He's like Letang with about 20% less talent

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Me messing around for no other reason other than it's Friday.

Nurse + 26 2nd for Graves + 28 2nd
Girard + Rakell to SJS for Buffalo's 1st + Goodrow + Cameron Lund
Novak + Koivunen + 27 2nd to Vancouver for EP40
Brazeau to MTL for Struble

Penguins now have 20, 22, 39, 52, and 54
20+22 to STL for 11ov (very similar to last years price for 12). Select Bjorck
54+52 to CAL for 35ov
35ov to Ottawa for Spence+87ov
39ov select Ryder Cali

McGroarty-Sid-Rust
Chinakhov-EP40-Malkin
Soderblom-Kindel-Goodrow
Dewar-Lizotte-XXXXX

Wotherspoon-EK
Struble-Letang
Nurse-Spence

Silov-Murashov

While adding Bjorck, Cali, and Lund to the prospect pool in addition to whoever else. Final lineup may depend on if Bjorck makes the jump?

Bjorck is in the NHL in 2026-27 if we draft him, I can almost guarantee it. He is a better player than Elias Pettersson today. Team Sweden thinks so. So we don't need another center if we can somehow land Bjorck.

And one of these years, your Struble dream will come true!

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Me messing around for no other reason other than it's Friday.

Nurse + 26 2nd for Graves + 28 2nd
Girard + Rakell to SJS for Buffalo's 1st + Goodrow + Cameron Lund
Novak + Koivunen + 27 2nd to Vancouver for EP40
Brazeau to MTL for Struble

Penguins now have 20, 22, 39, 52, and 54
20+22 to STL for 11ov (very similar to last years price for 12). Select Bjorck
54+52 to CAL for 35ov
35ov to Ottawa for Spence+87ov
39ov select Ryder Cali

McGroarty-Sid-Rust
Chinakhov-EP40-Malkin
Soderblom-Kindel-Goodrow
Dewar-Lizotte-XXXXX

Wotherspoon-EK
Struble-Letang
Nurse-Spence

Silov-Murashov

While adding Bjorck, Cali, and Lund to the prospect pool in addition to whoever else. Final lineup may depend on if Bjorck makes the jump?

The more I think about Edmontons cap situation the less I consider Graves to Edmonton happening.

 

[SEALBound]

I'm sure the Hoffmans care about adding stupid contracts with lessoning value each year that passes.

Edit: Also, it's incredibly stupid to go nuclear/way out of your way to just add. Nurse.

Generally speaking, I think owners are okay (on some level) with the idea of "buying picks". Third-party teams retained on trade for mere 4th/5th round picks. Every year, teams take on low/zero value contracts for payment. Hell, we did it what 3-4 times last year alone?

The idea with Nurse would be, if you can get a 2nd to take him on, then let in improve under better circumstances, retain $2mil, you can probably get an extra 2nd and a prospect out of it. So you're out the $9.25mil+ until you trade him, then and the $2mil after that. Seems like a reasonable deal to add 2 2nds and a prospect.

On the back end, it does help with the cap floor. I don't know if anyone has looked at our cap structure in the coming years, but unless we start bringing in some cap, we are going to be in trouble. San Jose has to go out and get Price to get above the floor. That's why I'm not shy about Nurse AND EP40 both coming in. Sometimes it's not purely about on-ice performance.

 

[SEALBound]

The more I think about Edmontons cap situation the less I consider Graves to Edmonton happening.

Fair. You can still bury Graves in the AHL at a $1+mil hit. Saves you $8mil then.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

You can look at the Girard trade in a couple ways:

1. Dubas was happy to get any decent defender plus a pick for Kulak.
2. Dubas targeted Girard to hedge his bets against Letang and EK. For Letang it was a hedge against his play continuing to crater. For EK it was a hedge against him being traded this offseason. I'm not saying that I think EK will be traded, but Dubas put himself in a position where that's an option. If Girard wasn't here, I don't think Dubas would entertain sending out EK.

I have a feeling it was more #2 vs #1.

Interesting. I believe it was 100% No. 1.

Girard is not capable of running a power play. He was not on our second unit. In Colorado he was obviously on the second unit, not the first. But he never ran that unit. Toews and Byram did.

And the biggest irony is Girard-Letang looked like a bad idea from the start. But it was Girard that looked bad next to Letang, not the other way around. Girard was fine with Solovyov (small sample size, I get it).

I still believe he will be moved. And if not moved, then definitely not re-signed. He is a bad fit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The more I think about Edmontons cap situation the less I consider Graves to Edmonton happening.

Yeah I don't think he makes sense for Edmonton to be taking back. I also wonder if Graves' salary being less than his AAV makes him more attractive for the Penguins to hold onto.

If Graves is going out, I think Vancouver in an EP deal makes more sense.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Generally speaking, I think owners are okay (on some level) with the idea of "buying picks". Third-party teams retained on trade for mere 4th/5th round picks. Every year, teams take on low/zero value contracts for payment. Hell, we did it what 3-4 times last year alone?

The idea with Nurse would be, if you can get a 2nd to take him on, then let in improve under better circumstances, retain $2mil, you can probably get an extra 2nd and a prospect out of it. So you're out the $9.25mil+ until you trade him, then and the $2mil after that. Seems like a reasonable deal to add 2 2nds and a prospect.

On the back end, it does help with the cap floor. I don't know if anyone has looked at our cap structure in the coming years, but unless we start bringing in some cap, we are going to be in trouble. San Jose has to go out and get Price to get above the floor. That's why I'm not shy about Nurse AND EP40 both coming in. Sometimes it's not purely about on-ice performance.

The Hoffmans are not backed by money like FSG is, and in fact FSG is still running SNP until the Hoffmans can take over. Money is certainly an issue. The Pens will not be spending to the cap for the near future.

So, weaponizing the cap space is still a limited adventure.

 

[Sideline]

Yeah I don't think he makes sense for Edmonton to be taking back. I also wonder if Graves' salary being less than his AAV makes him more attractive for the Penguins to hold onto.

If Graves is going out, I think Vancouver in an EP deal makes more sense.

I know the Canucks are rumoured to want to cut payroll, but they are already close to the salary floor. They can't trade EP, Boeser, and Debrusk without taking back almost as much cap hit as they send out.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Speaking of Del Mastro, I think he could absolutely be an option if Chicago ends up pulling off Byram. The Blackhawks have Vlasic and Kaiser in their top-4 already and adding Byram would take their young D collection to just downright ridiculous levels. He feels like someone who might just become available purely due to a numbers game.

Byram, Vlassic, Kaiser, Rinzel, Levshunov, Korchinski, Del Mastro....there's just way too much to play there. Del Mastro is actually waiver eligible starting next year, so I think a Koivunen for Del Mastro swap could make a ton of sense.

 

[SEALBound]

Interesting. I believe it was 100% No. 1.

Girard is not capable of running a power play. He was not on our second unit. In Colorado he was obviously on the second unit, not the first. But he never ran that unit. Toews and Byram did.

And the biggest irony is Girard-Letang looked like a bad idea from the start. But it was Girard that looked bad next to Letang, not the other way around. Girard was fine with Solovyov (small sample size, I get it).

I still believe he will be moved. And if not moved, then definitely not re-signed. He is a bad fit.

If I remember correctly, there were comments made that "they" did a lot of homework on Girard and identified him as someone who would work well here. I believe he had Clark's seal of approval. And they put him immediately with Letang and pretty much refused to separate them. I assumed they were hoping Girard's skill in puck moving would help cover some of Letang's declining skill. And we've seen similar pairings (on paper and in theory) work in the past, like Martin-Letang and Matheson-Letang and even Daley-Letang a bit. So I could see why they might be inclined to do it. Getting value from Kulak was a bonus.

 

[Peat]

-Get paid a pick by Minnesota to take on Middleton

For much the same reason we're talking about Nurse as potentially a cost nothing item rather than someone who brings the Oilers' 1st with him, I suspect that Middleton costs a pick rather than brings a pick. He's been up and down in Minnesota but I don't think he's ever been sheltered there and his relative possession numbers are live with it for the minutes okay. 3 x 4m for him seems better than a lot of the UFA deals about to happen and as such, I think he gets a pick.

 

[TojoP]

Pretty funny how many people care about adding cap to this team tbh.

You also care a lot about adding cap when it's for players you don't like.

 

[Empoleon8771]

For much the same reason we're talking about Nurse as potentially a cost nothing item rather than someone who brings the Oilers' 1st with him, I suspect that Middleton costs a pick rather than brings a pick. He's been up and down in Minnesota but I don't think he's ever been sheltered there and his relative possession numbers are live with it for the minutes okay. 3 x 4m for him seems better than a lot of the UFA deals about to happen and as such, I think he gets a pick.

I actually think Edmonton is probably going to have to pay to get out of Nurse's deal, so I don't quite agree with you on that. The only way they don't have to add anything is if they're taking money back, but if they're not, I think they'll have to add.

That said, I could see Middleton costing something rather than Minnesota paying assets to move him. At that point you don't do it.