Dougie Hamilton vs Evan Bouchard (Better shot)

[Mr Bojanglez]

good poll question. I'll probably pay attention to both a bit more this year.

 

[bucks_oil]

Make no mistake, I'm not the least bit upset. Just confused but maybe you're like me and type in a style that people think is condescending or being rude when that isn't the intention.

I think Bouchard is very good, but he does have the benefit of playing with 2 of the top 5 players in the league, Hamilton doesn't have that luxury, when Tyson Barrie, does almost as well as you do that is a pretty clear indicator that maybe this PP is more about the big 2 than it is about Bouchard.

No worries... I was certainly challenging to back up your opinion with some fact. I get swayed in arguments by data, less so by opinion (which you are welcome to share of course... it just isn't likely to change my mind).

As for Barrie... I don't think you are making the point you think you are making: "since Barrie sucks, pretty much anyone can have success on the Oilers power play", for two reasons:

• First: Barrie is actually pretty phenomenal himself on the power play. Has been his entire career. In his last three years prior to joining Edmonton, he had 67 ppp... which placed him 6th in the league with an average of 22 ppp/season. And that includes his year in Toronto when he was on the 2nd unit and only had 10 ppp. So if you look at the two Colorado years he was third in the league. Point: Barrie is an elite power play producer.
• Second: In Barrie's last full year on the Oilers power play he had 21 points. That happens to be EXACTLY his career average (which again is an elite level of production). In Bouchard's first full year on the Oilers power play he scored 35 points!!! That's a 67% increase on an already elite level of production.

I would argue that the difference between Bouchard and Barrie on the power play is exactly the point of this discussion, Bouchard's SHOT. With Barrie, it was pretty rare to see him rip one, with Bouchard it actually adds that as a huge component of the power play.

For me I'll take the versatility of Hamilton over the raw power of Bouchard, but I understand why people especially Oiler fans wouldn't because sometimes it's hard to see that you actually can improve even on the best

Although I guess I'm assuming Hamilton comes back from this injury with no issues, maybe he'll regress. This is tougher than I originally thought lol

I still don't know what this means "versatility". If you want to argue Hamilton is a better all-around defenseman, you would get ZERO argument. But that's not the point of the discussion... The context here is "best shot".

By the stats, shot power heavily favors Bouchard (data shown previously). As for shot accuracy/getting shots through:
Shooting percent: 8.2% Bouchard, 8.2% Hamilton
Shots on goal / Total Shot attempts: Bouchard 220/774 = 28.4% get through. Hamilton 61/198 = 30.8%

So this is a very slight edge to Hamilton in a smaller sample size...

I still take the Bouchbomb.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

No worries... I was certainly challenging to back up your opinion with some fact. I get swayed in arguments by data, less so by opinion (which you are welcome to share of course... it just isn't likely to change my mind).

As for Barrie... I don't think you are making the point you think you are making: "since Barrie sucks, pretty much anyone can have success on the Oilers power play", for two reasons:

• First: Barrie is actually pretty phenomenal himself on the power play. Has been his entire career. In his last three years prior to joining Edmonton, he had 67 ppp... which placed him 6th in the league with an average of 22 ppp/season. And that includes his year in Toronto when he was on the 2nd unit and only had 10 ppp. So if you look at the two Colorado years he was third in the league. Point: Barrie is an elite power play producer.
• Second: In Barrie's last full year on the Oilers power play he had 21 points. That happens to be EXACTLY his career average (which again is an elite level of production). In Bouchard's first full year on the Oilers power play he scored 35 points!!! That's a 67% increase on an already elite level of production.

I would argue that the difference between Bouchard and Barrie on the power play is exactly the point of this discussion, Bouchard's SHOT. With Barrie, it was pretty rare to see him rip one, with Bouchard it actually adds that as a huge component of the power play.



I still don't know what this means "versatility". If you want to argue Hamilton is a better all-around defenseman, you would get ZERO argument. But that's not the point of the discussion... The context here is "best shot".

By the stats, shot power heavily favors Bouchard (data shown previously). As for shot accuracy/getting shots through:
Shooting percent: 8.2% Bouchard, 8.2% Hamilton
Shots on goal / Total Shot attempts: Bouchard 220/774 = 28.4% get through. Hamilton 61/198 = 30.8%

So this is a very slight edge to Hamilton in a smaller sample size...

I still take the Bouchbomb.

Barrie is a phenomenal powerplay producer, when he has top level talent to work with. he's been on powerplays with MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid and Draisaitl and produced, then he went to Nashville and played with regular players and was a shell of his former self. This may simply be coincidence and aging or it could point to the fact that having superstars increases your numbers.

By versatility I mean Hamilton isn't simply a slapshot guy, he'll unload them sure but it's not his only weapon. Bouchard is slapshot after slapshot, with very little variety and there is nothing wrong with that as his slapshot is amazing.

Another thing to consider is Bouchard put up 8 goals and 35 points on the PP, McDavid put up 45, Leon put up 39, Nuge put up 26 and Hyman put up 20. Everyone else was 10 or under

Last time Dougie played a full season he put up 8 goals and 28 points on the PP, Hughes put up 31, Bratt put up 22 and Nico put up 19 everyone else was 10 or under

 

[Hippasus]

Barrie is a phenomenal powerplay producer, when he has top level talent to work with. he's been on powerplays with MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid and Draisaitl and produced, then he went to Nashville and played with regular players and was a shell of his former self. This may simply be coincidence and aging or it could point to the fact that having superstars increases your numbers.

By versatility I mean Hamilton isn't simply a slapshot guy, he'll unload them sure but it's not his only weapon. Bouchard is slapshot after slapshot, with very little variety and there is nothing wrong with that as his slapshot is amazing.

Another thing to consider is Bouchard put up 8 goals and 35 points on the PP, McDavid put up 45, Leon put up 39, Nuge put up 26 and Hyman put up 20. Everyone else was 10 or under

Last time Dougie played a full season he put up 8 goals and 28 points on the PP, Hughes put up 31, Bratt put up 22 and Nico put up 19 everyone else was 10 or under

Bouchard takes a fair number of wrist shots too. They're pretty hard and from distance.

 

[bucks_oil]

Barrie is a phenomenal powerplay producer, when he has top level talent to work with. he's been on powerplays with MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid and Draisaitl and produced, then he went to Nashville and played with regular players and was a shell of his former self. This may simply be coincidence and aging or it could point to the fact that having superstars increases your numbers.

By versatility I mean Hamilton isn't simply a slapshot guy, he'll unload them sure but it's not his only weapon. Bouchard is slapshot after slapshot, with very little variety and there is nothing wrong with that as his slapshot is amazing.

Another thing to consider is Bouchard put up 8 goals and 35 points on the PP, McDavid put up 45, Leon put up 39, Nuge put up 26 and Hyman put up 20. Everyone else was 10 or under

Last time Dougie played a full season he put up 8 goals and 28 points on the PP, Hughes put up 31, Bratt put up 22 and Nico put up 19 everyone else was 10 or under

Barrie was on the 2nd power play in Nashville and Toronto. The point is a "very good to elite" power play guy gets 20-25 points on the Oilers best-ever power play. Bouchard gets 30-35 and arguably it is his shot that is the difference in that additional 10 points... which is the point of this thread. His shot is the difference maker.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Barrie was on the 2nd power play in Nashville and Toronto. The point is a "very good to elite" power play guy gets 20-25 points on the Oilers best-ever power play. Bouchard gets 30-35 and arguably it is his shot that is the difference in that additional 10 points... which is the point of this thread. His shot is the difference maker.

I guess if you think that Hamilton wouldn't put up 8 more PP points playing with McDavid, Nuge, Hyman and Drai instead of Hughes, Bratt, Hischier and Palat, then there is no hope here. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Clam Jensen]

Bouchard for sure has a more powerful, heavy shot but Dougie has an innate ability to get his shot on net and find holes, which to me is more effective.

 

[ijuka]

Lol Dougie AINEC

When Dougie was uninjured Devils had on of the best PPs in history then when he was gone they went below average

Oilers PP has been decent with Bouchard.

 

[5 14 6 1]

Bouch has the best point shot I've ever seen on a PP, deadly accurate too

 

[TheSecondSeason]

Bouchard. Ainec

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

Bouch has the best point shot I've ever seen on a PP, deadly accurate too

That doesnt come as a shock lol

Bouchard's shot is very good but its new toy shine; its on par with other top powerplay slapshots - with Hamilton being one of those

 

[Fourier]

Bouchard’s is much harder, but he gets it blocked a lot and isn’t super accurate. I say Dougie wins this.

Lets look at the stats over the last three years:

Hamilton:
5 vs 5:
Percentage of shots blocked: 30.2%
Percentage of shots on goal: 49.8%
Percentage of unblocked shots on goal: 71.3%

Power Play:
Percentage of shots blocked: 40.1%
Percentage of shots on goal: 42.0%
Percentage of unblocked shots on goal: 70.2%

Bouchard:
5 vs 5:
Percentage of shots blocked: 37.3%
Percentage of shots on goal: 45.3%
Percentage of unblocked shots on goal: 72.3%

Power Play:
Percentage of shots blocked: 36.2%
Percentage of shots on goal: 45.3%
Percentage of unblocked shots on goal: 71.6%

Both players have an overall 6.5% shooting percentage.

It would seem that the only part of your post that may be accurate is the statement that Bouchard's shot gets blocked more than Hamilton's 5 vs 5. This is not true on the pp. Nor is there evidence that Hamilton's shot is more accurate.

 

[Fig]

They don’t call it a Ham-bomb or whatever..

I think it's because of how long it takes for Bouchard to launch the damn thing. The announcer is already jabbering about scoring opportunity created by Hamilton by the time Bouchard clacks his whapper.

Both different styled players. IMO Bouchard a bit more brute force and power on his shots. Hamilton a lot more sneaky/looking for the gaps for his shots.

I don't know how to vote. The title vs discuss vs OP's post saying who has better slap shot throws it all over the place. Purely on slapshot, I think it's Bouchard. Overall shots, I have no clue how to compare it because of how different both guys are to each other stylistically.

 

[strattonius]

I voted Bouchard but part of me wonders if his shot looks so good because McDavid and Draisaitl are causing the great collapse in front of the net on the PP then he's there as a perfect option on the point.

Before anyone gets salty over that I'm not saying he doesn't have a great shot, but you'd be naive to think Bouchard doesn't have a favorable role when comparing him to someone like Hamilton.

 

[ijuka]

I voted Bouchard but part of me wonders if his shot looks so good because McDavid and Draisaitl are causing the great collapse in front of the net on the PP then he's there as a perfect option on the point.

Before anyone gets salty over that I'm not saying he doesn't have a great shot, but you'd be naive to think Bouchard doesn't have a favorable role when comparing him to someone like Hamilton.

Bouchard's top shot speed is 100mph, how much could McD and Drai possibly help with that?

 

[eojsmada]

Can there be a 3rd option for "why these two?"

 

[strattonius]

Bouchard's top shot speed is 100mph, how much could McD and Drai possibly help with that?

He has an excellent shot and never denied that. Good job reading.

 

[TheSecondSeason]

Take the guy who put well over 80 points in the regular season, much younger, and put up one of the greatest playoffs by a defenseman of all time. Breaking Paul Coffeys assist mark which stood for over 40 years. Not to mention laser accurate game winning point shots all playoffs.

Hamilton isn't in his category.

 

[Dust]

Both guys have pretty much identical career shooting percentages. I'll take Bouchard just because he's significantly younger, and has room to get better. I think Dougie has had his career year already in 22-23.

 

[ijuka]

He has an excellent shot and never denied that. Good job reading.

Yeah, I have this ability to read subtext. I know what words you wrote, but you were really trying to diminish his achievements.

 

[strattonius]

Yeah, I have this ability to read subtext. I know what words you wrote, but you were really trying to diminish his achievements.

Nope. Nice try. Not everything is about Canucks and Oilers.