News Article: Dorion: We’re going to take a big step forward this year

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ｖａｓｔｌｙ　ｉｍｐｒｏｖｅｄ　２：　ｅｌｅｃｔｒｉｃ　ｂｏｏｇａｌｏｏ

 

[Alex1234]

How can you be so much out to lunch?

 

[Ouroboros]

I guess I'll make a serious post...

When Dorion says something like 'the team will make a huge leap forward this year' I think - on some level - he's projecting his own hopes. I've got a funny feeling that if the Sens finish at or near the bottom of the standings again this season, Dorion will probably lose his job. I'm basing this primarily on Melnyk's quote last spring about the next 6 months being 'critical' for Dorion and the hockey ops department.

My second thought is that it would be a complete catastrophe if the Sens somehow overachieve this year and end up drafting something like 10th, especially if it comes by way of how the Sens usually overachieve - riding unsustainable percentages. We desperately need the type of talent that is projected to go at the top of the 2020 draft.

Finally - and this has already been covered - but the Senators really need to stop putting this guy in front of a microphone. Has Dorion done a single media hit where he hasn't ended up sticking his foot in his mouth?

 

[Agent Zub]

I guess I'll make a serious post...

When Dorion says something like 'the team will make a huge leap forward this year' I think - on some level - he's projecting his own hopes. I've got a funny feeling that if the Sens finish at or near the bottom of the standings again this season, Dorion will probably lose his job. I'm basing this primarily on Melnyk's quote last spring about the next 6 months being 'critical' for Dorion and the hockey ops department.

My second thought is that it would be a complete catastrophe if the Sens somehow overachieve this year and end up drafting something like 10th, especially if it comes by way of how the Sens usually overachieve - riding unsustainable percentages. We desperately need the type of talent that is projected to go at the top of the 2020 draft.

Finally - and this has already been covered - but the Senators really need to stop putting this guy in front of a microphone. Has Dorion done a single media hit where he hasn't ended up sticking his foot in his mouth?

Dorions job is safe as long as Melnyk is in charge.

This is just the usual Dorion thinking he's a genius and every move he makes is amazing.

 

[milkbag]

What really gets me is that I can see Dorion's shit eating grin in my mind's eye perfectly every time I read quotes like this

 

[The Lewler]

I guess it ultimately doesn't matter.

He's going to say it because he has to say it, whether or not he actually believes it.

 

[Micklebot]

Ok... so Dorion wants to frame things in a positive manner, who can blame him. It's only natural to want to do so wrt something presumably he is working hard to improve.

So what's a GM who's just stripped away all it's top vets to do?

Number one; you have to admit that things will likely be worse before it gets better. How could it not with Duchene, Stone, Karlsson, Hoffman, Dzingel, Ceci, and Smith all gone and replaced with Tierney, DeMelo, Anisimov, Zaitsev, C.Brown, and Hainsey. Admit we've moved out skill for futures and as a result we will not be as skilled.

Number two; identify the long term goal - bringing young talent along so as to maximize their development. He can put a positive spin on the guys that came in and talk about how he feels they are the right group of vets to teach the kids how to be good pros. He can talk up the new coaching staff and how they have the skillset to manage young players growth.

Number three; he needs to pitch a realistic selling point for this team. That isn't going to be improvement in the standings, what it can be though is the opportunity to watch some exciting young players and prospects fight for spots and develop before fans eyes. He can sell the long term target for what we hope to be and hint at the action plan we'll be using to meet that target.

I get it, there's tons of parity in this league. We could very well finish higher than last year (can't finish worse...) or the year before. But finishing higher than last year isn't what defines a successful rebuild, this years results are meaningless in terms of whether or not the rebuild is a success or not. We need to focus on what defines success along with the benchmarks we need to hit to get there, and sell that. I think he did a bit of that, but the message was muddied.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Ok... so Dorion wants to frame things in a positive manner, who can blame him. It's only natural to want to do so wrt something presumably he is working hard to improve.

So what's a GM who's just stripped away all it's top vets to do?

Number one; you have to admit that things will likely be worse before it gets better. How could it not with Duchene, Stone, Karlsson, Hoffman, Dzingel, Ceci, and Smith all gone and replaced with Tierney, DeMelo, Anisimov, Zaitsev, C.Brown, and Hainsey. Admit we've moved out skill for futures and as a result we will not be as skilled.

Number two; identify the long term goal - bringing young talent along so as to maximize their development. He can put a positive spin on the guys that came in and talk about how he feels they are the right group of vets to teach the kids how to be good pros. He can talk up the new coaching staff and how they have the skillset to manage young players growth.

Number three; he needs to pitch a realistic selling point for this team. That isn't going to be improvement in the standings, what it can be though is the opportunity to watch some exciting young players and prospects fight for spots and develop before fans eyes. He can sell the long term target for what we hope to be and hint at the action plan we'll be using to meet that target.

I get it, there's tons of parity in this league. We could very well finish higher than last year (can't finish worse...) or the year before. But finishing higher than last year isn't what defines a successful rebuild, this years results are meaningless in terms of whether or not the rebuild is a success or not. We need to focus on what defines success along with the benchmarks we need to hit to get there, and sell that. I think he did a bit of that, but the message was muddied.

Exactly. Not finishing in last place is meaningless for this team this year. It’s worse for their long term prospects.

Now, obviously a GM can’t say he wants his team to stay in last. But what he can do is not bring up the standings at all. At that’s what he should be doing.

Points don’t matter this year Pierre. Finishing in last is acceptable. You don’t have to say it, but don’t say the opposite either.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Ok... so Dorion wants to frame things in a positive manner, who can blame him. It's only natural to want to do so wrt something presumably he is working hard to improve.

So what's a GM who's just stripped away all it's top vets to do?

Number one; you have to admit that things will likely be worse before it gets better. How could it not with Duchene, Stone, Karlsson, Hoffman, Dzingel, Ceci, and Smith all gone and replaced with Tierney, DeMelo, Anisimov, Zaitsev, C.Brown, and Hainsey. Admit we've moved out skill for futures and as a result we will not be as skilled.

Number two; identify the long term goal - bringing young talent along so as to maximize their development. He can put a positive spin on the guys that came in and talk about how he feels they are the right group of vets to teach the kids how to be good pros. He can talk up the new coaching staff and how they have the skillset to manage young players growth.

Number three; he needs to pitch a realistic selling point for this team. That isn't going to be improvement in the standings, what it can be though is the opportunity to watch some exciting young players and prospects fight for spots and develop before fans eyes. He can sell the long term target for what we hope to be and hint at the action plan we'll be using to meet that target.

I get it, there's tons of parity in this league. We could very well finish higher than last year (can't finish worse...) or the year before. But finishing higher than last year isn't what defines a successful rebuild, this years results are meaningless in terms of whether or not the rebuild is a success or not. We need to focus on what defines success along with the benchmarks we need to hit to get there, and sell that. I think he did a bit of that, but the message was muddied.

Good points. In business you have to look forward and not backwards. There is no way he goes into an interview with the "we are planning on tanking ...buckle-up". He is going to lie. He's got some practice with that method.

If you look back a few years, you may remember the leafs mgmt promising the playoffs before they were even ready. It is part of the program.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Good points. In business you have to look forward and not backwards. There is no way he goes into an interview with the "we are planning on tanking ...buckle-up". He is going to lie. He's got some practice with that method.

If you look back a few years, you may remember the leafs mgmt promising the playoffs before they were even ready. It is part of the program.

Point is, he doesn’t have to bring up standings or points. He can answer every question with, “the priority is setting the right culture and developing young players.”

 

[FlyingJ]

My second thought is that it would be a complete catastrophe if the Sens somehow overachieve this year and end up drafting something like 10th, especially if it comes by way of how the Sens usually overachieve - riding unsustainable percentages. We desperately need the type of talent that is projected to go at the top of the 2020 draft.

Yep. And while I recall our advanced stats being fairly good for the first two years under MacLean (though it was high event hockey to be sure), overachieving during the 2011-12 and 2012-13 campaigns did longterm damage to this team IMO. If we had bottomed out for a year or two, as was the plan, we could have better loaded up on talent to surround Karlsson with.

Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but I stand by it.

 

[bert]

https://www.tsn.ca/pierre-dorion-ottawa-senators-feel-connor-brown-can-regain-20-goal-form-1.1356558



As a reminder, the personnel changes we made since the start of last season:

Out:
Mark Stone
Matt Duchene
Ryan Dzingel
Cody Ceci
Zack Smith

In:
Artem Anisimov
Nikita Zaitsev
Ron Hainsey
Connor Brown
Tyler Ennis
Anthony Duclair

It seems like the type of team "we want to be" is filled with Leafs' 3rd and 4th liners.



Circle the wagons!

Actually Pierre the only unacceptable thing to do would not be finishing 31st or 30th this year. So absolutely out of touch with reality its mind blowing.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Actually Pierre the only unacceptable thing to do would not be finishing 31st or 30th this year. So absolutely out of touch with reality its mind blowing.

Tbf no GM is going to outright say they want to finish bottom of the league to get a good draft pick but I know what you're saying. Sens need to bottom out

 

[bert]

Tbf no GM is going to outright say they want to finish bottom of the league to get a good draft pick but I know what you're saying. Sens need to bottom out

Agreed but saying what they should do this year and have set out to do this year based on every personel decision that has been made as the opposite of the likely outcome is the stupidest thing possible. Its an incredibly patronizing thing to say to a dedicated fan. Its frankly insulting to our collective intelligence. They just gave up a top 4 pick as they actively stripped the roster of all its best players then tell us they expect to be better? This is the exact type of behavior that has pushed so many fans away. Like many people have said in this thread all he literally had to do was talk about the growth of the youth and be honest about where the team is at moving forward in the rebuild. To sell the excitement of young players taking the next step.

Any sens fan that is serious, dedicated and wants to see a stanley cup come to ottawa should be hoping for a poor finish in the standings, while watching the youth develop in a positive manner.

Yes there is lots of parody in the league, almost every team has made significant strides to get better that was a bottom feeder except Ottawa. The teams that regressed are still way better. As many have stated the sens do not have a game breaking franchise forward in the lineup or as a prospect. They absolutely need atleast 2 to be a contender. Everyone knows it, why doesnt management? All peope want is honesty from the organization and some reassurances the people in charge know what they are doing. Then we get this garbage. New york was honest with its fanbase so was Toronto. Why cant Ottawa?

 

[Liver King]

A big step forward.. Is Dorion quitting his job?

 

[Masked]

A big step forward.. Is Dorion quitting his job?

No, he's going to be slipping Eugene a mickey on a regular basis.

 

[Sweatred]

The big step forward is hopefully a roster full of players who have a future with the club vs just waiting for players contracts to expire.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I guess I'll make a serious post...

When Dorion says something like 'the team will make a huge leap forward this year' I think - on some level - he's projecting his own hopes. I've got a funny feeling that if the Sens finish at or near the bottom of the standings again this season, Dorion will probably lose his job. I'm basing this primarily on Melnyk's quote last spring about the next 6 months being 'critical' for Dorion and the hockey ops department.

My second thought is that it would be a complete catastrophe if the Sens somehow overachieve this year and end up drafting something like 10th, especially if it comes by way of how the Sens usually overachieve - riding unsustainable percentages. We desperately need the type of talent that is projected to go at the top of the 2020 draft.

Finally - and this has already been covered - but the Senators really need to stop putting this guy in front of a microphone. Has Dorion done a single media hit where he hasn't ended up sticking his foot in his mouth?

Spot on post.

Melnyk shows way too much of his hand in those interviews. I wonder if there's cold feet internally about the state of our rebuild and how losing is negatively affecting ticket sales. Could there be a mandate internally to "contend for a playoff spot" to boost team interest?

Melnyk's personal brand being intertwined with the team brand is just as big of a reason why ticket sales are suffering, but that's not something he is going to fix by firing Dorion. It may not be something he even acknowledges, and if he does it would be in a "it's them not me" sort of way. AKA "12 year olds from Toronto".

I also think we need to finish as close to last as possible. Getting Lafreniere could turn this franchise around, both by giving it a superstar on the ice, and by giving it a superstar at the box office. It's almost a shame that the downtown arena fell through. Imagine the marketing pull of having the top french-Canadian superstar. If the team was downtown and within arms reach to Gatineau and Orleans, having Lafreniere would surely help convert some "habs diehards" or at least capture the imagination of their children before they can be indoctrinated to cheer for the Canadiens.

Dorion is a terrible public speaker, but who else do the Senators have that would be appropriate to speak? When we had Nic Ruszkowski it seemed like the team was trying to give him some of the responsibilities to be the front man but he would make things worse because he had no understanding of the hockey matters he was commenting on. "Opportunity in the context of a rebuild". This team needs to ensure if they every get around to hiring a POHO or someone else in the hockey operations, that they are a skilled enough communicator to replace Dorion as the frontman. I say that as a guy who loves Dorion's interviews for the Michael Scott/The Office type vibe they give off every time he says something crazy "get a new girlfriend", "I will be at x location come at me bro", etc. I don't think Dorion is a dumb person by any stretch, but he comes off that way as a communicator.

 

[jhutter]

Spot on post.

Melnyk shows way too much of his hand in those interviews. I wonder if there's cold feet internally about the state of our rebuild and how losing is negatively affecting ticket sales. Could there be a mandate internally to "contend for a playoff spot" to boost team interest?

Melnyk's personal brand being intertwined with the team brand is just as big of a reason why ticket sales are suffering, but that's not something he is going to fix by firing Dorion. It may not be something he even acknowledges, and if he does it would be in a "it's them not me" sort of way. AKA "12 year olds from Toronto".

I also think we need to finish as close to last as possible. Getting Lafreniere could turn this franchise around, both by giving it a superstar on the ice, and by giving it a superstar at the box office. It's almost a shame that the downtown arena fell through. Imagine the marketing pull of having the top french-Canadian superstar. If the team was downtown and within arms reach to Gatineau and Orleans, having Lafreniere would surely help convert some "habs diehards" or at least capture the imagination of their children before they can be indoctrinated to cheer for the Canadiens.

Dorion is a terrible public speaker, but who else do the Senators have that would be appropriate to speak? When we had Nic Ruszkowski it seemed like the team was trying to give him some of the responsibilities to be the front man but he would make things worse because he had no understanding of the hockey matters he was commenting on. "Opportunity in the context of a rebuild". This team needs to ensure if they every get around to hiring a POHO or someone else in the hockey operations, that they are a skilled enough communicator to replace Dorion as the frontman. I say that as a guy who loves Dorion's interviews for the Michael Scott/The Office type vibe they give off every time he says something crazy "get a new girlfriend", "I will be at x location come at me bro", etc. I don't think Dorion is a dumb person by any stretch, but he comes off that way as a communicator.

If Melnyk was genuinely worried about dwindling ticket sales and wanted to do something about it (ie winning), he'd have put the money together to re sign key players. You can't rationally be upset about ticket sales and winning percentages when you're spending $47 million, or whatever it is.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Agreed but saying what they should do this year and have set out to do this year based on every personel decision that has been made as the opposite of the likely outcome is the stupidest thing possible. Its an incredibly patronizing thing to say to a dedicated fan. Its frankly insulting to our collective intelligence. They just gave up a top 4 pick as they actively stripped the roster of all its best players then tell us they expect to be better? This is the exact type of behavior that has pushed so many fans away. Like many people have said in this thread all he literally had to do was talk about the growth of the youth and be honest about where the team is at moving forward in the rebuild. To sell the excitement of young players taking the next step.

Any sens fan that is serious, dedicated and wants to see a stanley cup come to ottawa should be hoping for a poor finish in the standings, while watching the youth develop in a positive manner.

Yes there is lots of parody in the league, almost every team has made significant strides to get better that was a bottom feeder except Ottawa. The teams that regressed are still way better. As many have stated the sens do not have a game breaking franchise forward in the lineup or as a prospect. They absolutely need atleast 2 to be a contender. Everyone knows it, why doesnt management? All peope want is honesty from the organization and some reassurances the people in charge know what they are doing. Then we get this garbage. New york was honest with its fanbase so was Toronto. Why cant Ottawa?

Publicly stating this team will be better and contend for the playoffs is a terrible marketing move when on paper the chances of that happening are very low.

Maybe it will get a few casual fans and hardcore homer fans pumped and sell a few extra tickets, but what is the result going to be when we finish last place and get blown out every night like what happened to close the season? They are setting the expectations too high, which will leave their most passionate fans disappointed, and risk driving them more of them off forever. It makes no sense.

It would make more sense to set REALISTIC expectations and try to sell people on seeing the progression of Chabot/White/Tkachuk and all the other prospects. Sell the team on the idea that we might not win, but if you go to the game you're part of something special, you're participating in seeing the early career of guys who will be the next wave of superstars for the Senators. At least that's something they can honestly sell people on (assuming we extend Chabot, lol).

I think their entire marketing platform is to say we're going to be better so it gets blared out on CTV News/The Ottawa Sun to the casual fan base, and hope that enough people who don't follow the team closely believe it and buy a few extra tickets this season because of it.

 

[Cosmix]

https://www.tsn.ca/pierre-dorion-ottawa-senators-feel-connor-brown-can-regain-20-goal-form-1.1356558



As a reminder, the personnel changes we made since the start of last season:

Out:
Mark Stone
Matt Duchene
Ryan Dzingel
Cody Ceci
Zack Smith

In:
Artem Anisimov
Nikita Zaitsev
Ron Hainsey
Connor Brown
Tyler Ennis
Anthony Duclair

It seems like the type of team "we want to be" is filled with Leafs' 3rd and 4th liners.



Circle the wagons!

What is that smell I smell?
Is it flowers, air freshener, or something from a bull?

 

[Cosmix]

Oh, I see P.R. Dorion is out and about today.

The guy missed his true calling as an 80's boxing hype man. Just born in the wrong era, I guess.

Used car salesman will be his next profession. That would give used car salesman a bad name!

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If Melnyk was genuinely worried about dwindling ticket sales and wanted to do something about it (ie winning), he'd have put the money together to re sign key players. You can't rationally be upset about ticket sales and winning percentages when you're spending $47 million, or whatever it is.

You can still be worried about ticket sales, while also not wanting to spend to the cap to fix the problem.

What team has done what we did, and risked keeping two superstars in Duchene/Stone UNSIGNED for almost an entire season when they weren't contenders? Either player could have gone down with an injury, and we could have lost them for nothing.

I am not saying Melnyk is rational. I am saying I think that he doesn't want last place finishes. Whether he is giving the team enough to work with to avoid them is a different story. Paraphrasing, Melnyk has come out and said Dorion has this year to get it together. That would imply that something isn't going right. Not only that, after preaching patience for the better part of a year, Dorion out of nowhere has come out and presented this team as one that is going to compete for a playoff spot this season. That's after we've lost all of our superstars. Where did that mandate come from?

All I am saying is, rational or not, I think ownership is not on board with basement finishes and low ticket sales. Dorion is going to get canned at the end of the season if we don't contend for a playoff spot.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

You guys are making a big deal out of us losing Mark Stone, but let me remind you Chris Tierney had more assists than him!

 

[BondraTime]

You guys are making a big deal out of us losing Mark Stone, but let me remind you Chris Tierney had more assists than him!

That was incredible, even for Dorion.