Podcast (Audio) Dorion Retrospective
- Thread starter PlayOn
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BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
Guy was ass as a GM. I dont even care to argue about it anymore. Its just fact.
swiftwin
SENS PLAYOFFS
- Jul 26, 2005
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Strange, from reading around here, people seem to think everything good was pure luck, and everything bad was incompetence. For example:
swiftwin
SENS PLAYOFFS
- Jul 26, 2005
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Thank you for further proving my point. Like I said, when he missed, he missed small. When he hit, he hit big. We have one of the best young cores in the league, and most importantly, are signed to extremely good long term contracts.
At the end of the day, that's all that matters. Fretting over stupid stuff like losing 4th round picks is nitpicking to extreme levels when, on the flip side, you have Stutzle and Sanderson at $8m into the 2030's. Those deals are going to be utterly ridiculous in 5-6 years when they are in their prime and the cap is significantly higher. The last line (that you conveniently lumped together) on the list of good moves is worth more than the entire block of bad moves put together.
Those are facts you can't deny.
He's a good/great scout. Was way in over his head as a GM. I'm more talking about how Dorion himself thinks about it. He refuses to take accountability for anything. If he presented a balanced view, like "we did these things well", "these weren't good moves in retrospect, but here's what I was thinking at the time" but for example the whole DeBrincat experience shows how he thinks. Same for the Melynk stuff ("he told me he didn't want to be in one year out the next" then "no, no pressure from Melynk". He admitted to writing a 100-page report (which I don't believe unless it was a picture book with players he wanted to draft/sign. 100-pa
SensHulk
Registered User
He literally says that Melynk started interfering after they went on a losing streak following the acquisition of Duchene. Which led to Dorion producing a "100-page report". There's no way Dorion can read 100 pages, let alone write 100 pages. We all know Melynk tinkered with the team. He would go in the dressing room, did the fake interview with Boro, and all the other stories. Every other piece of evidence points to Melynk applying pressure to just about everyone he could in the organization, yet somehow Dorion was exempt from all of this. It's beyond the pale.
AchtzehnBaby
Global Matador
Loach
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- Jun 9, 2021
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I take some of what he said with a grain of salt. This is the same dude that lied about Dadonov’s no-trade list, he’s not exactly the pillar of honesty here.
There’s also some contradictory info out there. Like on CIH it was reported Mann wanted Peterka and it was Pierre that pushed Jarventie. And the media also said Stone wanted to stay but we wouldn’t pay him. I’m not gonna sit here and say Dorion’s version of events isn’t true, but given his track record, I am not gonna take his word for it. Bobby Ryan laughed off the high five claim, and in all his talks on CIH about the 2017 team, never seemed to think the Burrows acquisition was a game changer.
He was also claiming we had an exciting power forward coming in Boucher after watching him plenty on the 67s. Yeah, I get that you want to talk up your prospects, but I don’t really buy that it was all Mann behind that pick.
There’s also some contradictory info out there. Like on CIH it was reported Mann wanted Peterka and it was Pierre that pushed Jarventie. And the media also said Stone wanted to stay but we wouldn’t pay him. I’m not gonna sit here and say Dorion’s version of events isn’t true, but given his track record, I am not gonna take his word for it. Bobby Ryan laughed off the high five claim, and in all his talks on CIH about the 2017 team, never seemed to think the Burrows acquisition was a game changer.
He was also claiming we had an exciting power forward coming in Boucher after watching him plenty on the 67s. Yeah, I get that you want to talk up your prospects, but I don’t really buy that it was all Mann behind that pick.
Qward
Because! That's why!
All the good things were because of him, all the bad things were someone else's fault. Got it.
BigRig4
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2014
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Dorion himself has previously stated that Stone wanted to stay but they made the decision to trade him. He contradicts himself all the time based on whatever makes him look good in the moment.
BondraTime
Registered User
It wasn’t all Mann
The fact Dorion is claiming he had nothing to do with all the recent busts, which is funny because he’s been on record saying he’s always involved in 1st round picks including Boucher, but was innately involved in all the successes speaks volumes about the guy.
And the Burrows stuff is pure comedy. Overpaid for a guy who did very little, an overpaid him on a multi year deal, and then bought him out less than a year later….You can’t make this shit up
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BoardsofCanada
Registered User
I couldn't find the video clip but I remember Stone being interviewed on TSN and saying clearly that he had no interest in playing on a rebuilding team.
From AI:
Mark Stone expressed his desire to play in the playoffs and not "waste the best years of his career" on a rebuilding team when he was traded from the Ottawa Senators to the Vegas Golden Knights. He clarified that his comments weren't a slight against the Senators fans or organization, but rather a reflection of his personal goals as a player.
Stone's decision to move to Vegas stemmed from his desire to be on a team with a chance to compete for a Stanley Cup. He had a positive experience during the Senators' run to the Eastern Conference Finals, but ultimately felt the team was entering a rebuilding phase, which conflicted with his ambitions.
I've also heard conflicting reports on this. Jason York himself said that Stone wanted to stay but Melnyk didn't want to pay him. I'm gonna take Stone's words for it because he said it himself.
Loach
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FunkySeeFunkyDoo
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Loach
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JungleBeat
Registered User
I'm going to be charitable and assume Mann was referencing Boucher being higher on team lists than on consensus rankings.
Dorion mentioned that in the interview and there were rumours the Rangers wanted Boucher at #16, but I have pointed out many times that the Rangers can afford to overdraft a potential niche player like Boucher and risk him busting completely, as they are able to attract skilled UFAs to their team no problem, but we're in the exact opposition situation and that's part of what made Boucher such a stupid selection.
Stone had the opportunity to sign long-term in the summer of 2018, but after the team traded Karlsson and Hoffman following a 2nd last finish, he wasn't going to do that unless it was a big overpayment, which Melnyk probably wasn't comfortable doing.
Instead of trading him that summer and getting a bigger return, he chose to walk him to UFA by signing him to a one year deal, which is why we didn't get nearly as much for him as we should have.
Should have also traded Duchene that summer too, but after giving up the unprotected 2019 1st he kept them to try to save face and improve our draft position by winning some more games. Should have been considered sunk cost at that point since playoffs were an extreme longshot, but Dorion made a lot of moves out of self-interest, rather than in the best interest of the franchise.
And despite keeping Stone and Duchene we still finished with the worst record in the league
Instead of trading him that summer and getting a bigger return, he chose to walk him to UFA by signing him to a one year deal, which is why we didn't get nearly as much for him as we should have.
Should have also traded Duchene that summer too, but after giving up the unprotected 2019 1st he kept them to try to save face and improve our draft position by winning some more games. Should have been considered sunk cost at that point since playoffs were an extreme longshot, but Dorion made a lot of moves out of self-interest, rather than in the best interest of the franchise.
And despite keeping Stone and Duchene we still finished with the worst record in the league
Signing Stone to a 1 year RFA deal walking him to UFA was an insane move, even at the time. The city needed a reason to buy tickets, I suppose. But marketing should never trump hockey ops.Stone had the opportunity to sign long-term in the summer of 2018, but after the team traded Karlsson and Hoffman following a 2nd last finish, he wasn't going to do that unless it was a big overpayment, which Melnyk probably wasn't comfortable doing.
Instead of trading him that summer and getting a bigger return, he chose to walk him to UFA by signing him to a one year deal, which is why we didn't get nearly as much for him as we should have.
Should have also traded Duchene that summer too, but after giving up the unprotected 2019 1st he kept them to try to save face and improve our draft position by winning some more games. Should have been considered sunk cost at that point since playoffs were an extreme longshot, but Dorion made a lot of moves out of self-interest, rather than in the best interest of the franchise.
And despite keeping Stone and Duchene we still finished with the worst record in the league
BigRig4
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2014
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I don’t think we had a choice. Iirc he was arbitration eligible so he could’ve gotten the 1-year bridge walking him to UFA regardless. This just guaranteed it was a number we were comfortable with. Shame the relationship even got to that point though.
Right. My point was that a trade would have been the move versus signing him to anything at all. I said it at the time.
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