Post-Game Talk: Doomsday in Bubbleland [Jets bow out in Qualifiers]

[Jets 31]

A good 2nd line center, a 1st defender and 2-3 top 4 defenders, a couple of really good bottom 6 players and a team player. The entire team was different.

Agreed but we have needed a second line center for a while now and we have to start there if you ask me. Scheifele getting hurt just proved that if he gets hurt we are just wasting our talent on the wings. I like Chevy but he absolutely has to get this fixed or he might have to go, here's hoping he does.

 

[Stumbledore]

Why am I getting ads here about how much funerals cost... I'm not even 40 yet...

The time to worry is when the tall dude dressed in a black sheet and carrying a scythe starts hanging around in the background.

 

[Jets 31]

The time to worry is when the tall dude dressed in a black sheet and carrying a scythe starts hanging around in the background.

I was wondering why Wheeler was wearing a black sheet before last game.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm pretty sure I've read multiple times that he's having balance issues due to his ears, people are just assuming that it's the brain bruise still affecting him.

I suspect it is both.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

i'm more curious as to how the decline happened and if it's reveresable with some solid off-season training. it always looks like his stamina is low as well. it's really curious.
should he be on the second line? don't know, don't care. any good team will theoretically have a 1st and 2nd line that's pretty much interchangeable scenariowise and TOI-wise. Wheeler needs to play with the player(s) that compliment him best and vice versa.

Its age. Just age. He will be 34 this month.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We should try to sign RNH to our 2C and if we get lucky and get Laf, then our roster could look like this.

Ehlers - Chef - Laine
Connor - RNH - Laf
Copp - Lowry - Wheeler
Harkins - Roslovic - Appleton

Morrisey - Demelo
Samberg - Pionk
xxx - Poolman

Little doesn't come back and MattyP can go were ever he want.

I could go with that roster.

Who did you replace Mau with?
Seriously, that is not how it would look. Try something like this:
Connor - Chef - Laine
Laf - RNH - Wheeler
Copp - Lowry - Ehlers
Perreault - Shore - Roslovic

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Having the reputation of being a classy organization that is loyal to the people it hires is one way to overcome the reluctance of many players and personnel to choose Winnipeg over other larger and more attractive (they think, anyway) cities.

Yes, absolutely. But carrying the loyalty to extremes leads to losing. Winning is a great way to attract good players too.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Yes, absolutely. But carrying the loyalty to extremes leads to losing. Winning is a great way to attract good players too.

I think winning ranks far down the list in player considerations. Salary, high end lifestyle options, climate, keeping the WAGs happy are all more important. The last point may be the big one. If the spouse wants them out of a city, they will be out of that city in pretty much all instances. Watching this team play Calgary, I didn't get the impression that winning was all that important to them. Most of them looked like there was somewhere else they would rather be. Helly is probably the only untouchable on the team AFAIC and even he better start showing more when the playoffs start. Personally, where they're going to be picking (it won't be #1) I would seriously be looking at grabbing that Russian kid with the hope he could be their rising star goalie when their window to contend returns in several years time.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think winning ranks far down the list in player considerations. Salary, high end lifestyle options, climate, keeping the WAGs happy are all more important. The last point may be the big one. If the spouse wants them out of a city, they will be out of that city in pretty much all instances. Watching this team play Calgary, I didn't get the impression that winning was all that important to them. Most of them looked like there was somewhere else they would rather be. Helly is probably the only untouchable on the team AFAIC and even he better start showing more when the playoffs start. Personally, where they're going to be picking (it won't be #1) I would seriously be looking at grabbing that Russian kid with the hope he could be their rising star goalie when their window to contend returns in several years time.

If grabbing that goalie is the way they are thinking, you don't need to worry about them contending again anytime in the foreseeable future.

Disagree about winning. Nothing trumps WAGs though.

 

[HHel]

Who did you replace Mau with?
Seriously, that is not how it would look. Try something like this:
Connor - Chef - Laine
Laf - RNH - Wheeler
Copp - Lowry - Ehlers
Perreault - Shore - Roslovic

First I wroted "and get rid of Maurice" but I erased that part.

That's about right, but I can still dream about it.

 

[Bob E]

Who did you replace Mau with?
Seriously, that is not how it would look. Try something like this:
Connor - Chef - Laine
Laf - RNH - Wheeler
Copp - Lowry - Ehlers
Perreault - Shore - Roslovic

Harkins replaces Shore. Otherwise, I can see it.

 

[ps241]

i'm more curious as to how the decline happened and if it's reveresable with some solid off-season training. it always looks like his stamina is low as well. it's really curious.
should he be on the second line? don't know, don't care. any good team will theoretically have a 1st and 2nd line that's pretty much interchangeable scenariowise and TOI-wise. Wheeler needs to play with the player(s) that compliment him best and vice versa.

With Blake I feel like his game started to transition just a bit in 2018-19 but it was masked by his high point total. He use to be such a load to manage for defences and use to be a difference maker off the rush. We started seeing less and less of those signature drives around D men to the front of the net. His pace use to be his primary weapon and I feel that element has diminished slightly.

Blake obviously hasn’t fallen off a cliff but he is less dominant now. The way I would describe it is Blake keeps up with the play now but he doesn’t drive it like he did 3 seasons ago.

 

[Jet]

He might not be quite as popular with the players if he started making tough decisions like that.

See Toby Enstrom with Maurice. Enstrom probably had a little more left in the tank but got benched in the Vegas elimination game, and was justifiably upset when we played Joe Morrow and a barely-recovered-from-back-surgery Dimitry Kulikov instead of him.

Or Claude Noel with Dustin Byfuglien.

Probably not the greatest example with Byfuglien and Noel though, because that was very clearly poor coaching at the time. With hindsight that might've been one of the wedges that resulted in Noel eventually getting fired. If anything this example might show that a coach that wants longevity in an organization is better off appealing to the core of the roster more than any other outside influence.

Noel was a bad coach, but let's be honest... Noel era Buff was a very selfish player who was god awful at measuring risk.

I grew to love Byfuglien because he really made a conscious effort to play a more responsible game, but kept a lot of the components that made him one of a kind. That was likely due to Maurice making him a forward as a message that he wasn't cutting it as a defenseman.

 

[Stumbledore]

Watching this team play Calgary, I didn't get the impression that winning was all that important to them.

I'm not sure where you get your impressions from.

The team I was watching certainly wanted to win. When a player dives in front of a shot, or goes into the corner to make a play knowing they're going to be creamed, or stands in front of the net and is repeatedly and viciously cross-checked, it gives me the impression they want to win. Maybe I'm just easily fooled...

 

[None]

Noel was a bad coach, but let's be honest... Noel era Buff was a very selfish player who was god awful at measuring risk.

I grew to love Byfuglien because he really made a conscious effort to play a more responsible game, but kept a lot of the components that made him one of a kind. That was likely due to Maurice making him a forward as a message that he wasn't cutting it as a defenseman.

Byfuglien's always been more effective as a defenseman than as a forward though. Whether you call it selfishness or not, it was a big deal even if it led to Buff becoming more reliable defensively.

I think there was a very different message being sent from Maurice than Noel though. Maurice made it clear (publicly) that as soon as Byfuglien started playing a more risk averse game that he'd be moved back to the blueline.
Noel seemed far more antagonistic in his approach, putting Byfuglien at forward as a punishment, and not a method to further development. He made it clear that he thought Buff was a forward that gave the team the best chance to win at forward literally days before he was fired.

The point was more that pissing off your core is not a way to keep your job as a coach. I do agree with you about Buff's game changing for the better over the years, but as I said I think it was a messaging difference between Maurice and Noel's management of Buff.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Noel was a bad coach, but let's be honest... Noel era Buff was a very selfish player who was god awful at measuring risk.

I grew to love Byfuglien because he really made a conscious effort to play a more responsible game, but kept a lot of the components that made him one of a kind. That was likely due to Maurice making him a forward as a message that he wasn't cutting it as a defenseman.

Didn't Noel make Buff a F? Then Maurice left him there until Buff promised to improve defensively. That is my recollection, FWIW.

I really never thought Noel was as bad as he is painted here. I think he repeatedly made the mistake of claiming he was doing all that could be done with the material he had. Then he lost the room. Those 2 things probably were related ...... and fatal. But if you look at what he managed with that material, he couldn't have been all bad.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Byfuglien's always been more effective as a defenseman than as a forward though. Whether you call it selfishness or not, it was a big deal even if it led to Buff becoming more reliable defensively.

I think there was a very different message being sent from Maurice than Noel though. Maurice made it clear (publicly) that as soon as Byfuglien started playing a more risk averse game that he'd be moved back to the blueline.
Noel seemed far more antagonistic in his approach, putting Byfuglien at forward as a punishment, and not a method to further development. He made it clear that he thought Buff was a forward that gave the team the best chance to win at forward literally days before he was fired.

The point was more that pissing off your core is not a way to keep your job as a coach. I do agree with you about Buff's game changing for the better over the years, but as I said I think it was a messaging difference between Maurice and Noel's management of Buff.

Good post. Matches my memory of events, so it must be good.

 

[None]

Didn't Noel make Buff a F? Then Maurice left him there until Buff promised to improve defensively. That is my recollection, FWIW.

I really never thought Noel was as bad as he is painted here. I think he repeatedly made the mistake of claiming he was doing all that could be done with the material he had. Then he lost the room. Those 2 things probably were related ...... and fatal. But if you look at what he managed with that material, he couldn't have been all bad.

How not to endear yourself to your team

I remember him saying something along those lines too.

 

[10Ducky10]

Who did you replace Mau with?
Seriously, that is not how it would look. Try something like this:
Connor - Chef - Laine
Laf - RNH - Wheeler
Copp - Lowry - Ehlers
Perreault - Shore - Roslovic

Laf - Chef - Laine
Connor - RNH - Wheeler
Ehlers - Harkins - Roslovic
Perreault - Lowry - Copper

 

[PaulPooley]

Were there any actual rumours around Chevy being interested in Nuge? Feel like I missed something.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Laf - Chef - Laine
Connor - RNH - Wheeler
Ehlers - Harkins - Roslovic
Perreault - Lowry - Copper

Laf probably plays his first year on 2nd line. Slightly easier matchups. Or maybe not, who knows?
But I'll go you one better:
Ehlers - Scheifele - Laine
Laf - RNH - Wheeler
Connor - Harkins - Roslovic
Copp - Lowry - Appleton

Or:
Ehlers - Scheifele - Laine
Laf - RNH - Wheeler
Copp - Lowry - Roslovic
Perreault - Harkins - Appleton

Connor gone somewhere to get us a RHD.

 

[Jets 31]

Laf probably plays his first year on 2nd line. Slightly easier matchups. Or maybe not, who knows?
But I'll go you one better:
Ehlers - Scheifele - Laine
Laf - RNH - Wheeler
Connor - Harkins - Roslovic
Copp - Lowry - Appleton

Or:
Ehlers - Scheifele - Laine
Laf - RNH - Wheeler
Copp - Lowry - Roslovic
Perreault - Harkins - Appleton

Connor gone somewhere to get us a RHD.

I think Laine will be traded before Connor or Ehlers because Connor and Ehlers are in long term affordable contracts. It would take one hell of a trade though to get me to trade any one of those 3 , but that's just my opinion.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Laine will be traded before Connor or Ehlers because Connor and Ehlers are in long term affordable contracts. It would take one hell of a trade though to get me to trade any one of those 3 , but that's just my opinion.

Those long term contracts make them more valuable as trade chips. Its a 2 way street.

That all changes if Laine has given Chevy any kind of a vibe like he will be hard to sign for a fair price or that he wants out.

If I'm totally honest, I think Ehlers is the one to go. He should be last but he is underappreciated here (Maurice). Unfortunately, he will not bring the return we need because he hasn't been used in a way that would pump his value. We will lose that deal.

 

[Mud Turtle]

Laf probably plays his first year on 2nd line. Slightly easier matchups. Or maybe not, who knows?
But I'll go you one better:
Ehlers - Scheifele - Laine
Laf - RNH - Wheeler
Connor - Harkins - Roslovic
Copp - Lowry - Appleton

Or:
Ehlers - Scheifele - Laine
Laf - RNH - Wheeler
Copp - Lowry - Roslovic
Perreault - Harkins - Appleton

Connor gone somewhere to get us a RHD.

Let’s not kid ourselves. Lowry is never leaving the third line as long as Paul Maurice as coach.
Mo had that opportunity when we had all the talent to have a third scoring line and refused to do it.
It just won’t happen.

 

[LowLefty]

I think Laine will be traded before Connor or Ehlers because Connor and Ehlers are in long term affordable contracts. It would take one hell of a trade though to get me to trade any one of those 3 , but that's just my opinion.

I think you're right - this org (IMO) will hang on to the long term contracts with their star players.
Of course they are better chips to trade - they have more value - but why would you develop and sign your top players only to trade them for what may not work out.
Speculation is always fun but I really don't see the Jets moving either of KC or Ehlers - if they need players to fill holes, they will use other assets to trade or develop their own - most likely the latter