Does size matter less than before in the NHL?

[Montreal Shadow]

It could be I'm just looking at the wrong things but doesn't size matter much less than before?

Back when Karlsson first attracted attention, one of the biggest concerns about him was his size. Today, a lot of the top defensemen are of similar size. Makar, Fox, Hughes, and Morrissey just to name a few. I'm looking back at the top players in the 2000s or early 2010s, almost no defensemen besides Karlsson were that small. The top defensemen were Pronger, Niedermayer, Weber, Suter, Weber, Subban, Doughty, Chara, and Keith. Those on the smaller side were Karlsson and Lidstrom, but even then, Lidstrom was still 6'1" and 190 pounds. I use shorter than 6' and/or below 200 pounds for the cut-off.

I'm mainly focusing on defensemen because size was always seen as being almost mandatory to make an elite one. I don't recall when I last saw so many smaller players dominate the league. I don't think Cale Makar would have ever been drafted 4th back in 2005. His stature alone would have seen his stock plummet and teams would have considered him a PP specialist not worth wasting a top 5 pick over.

Any data to back this up or am I just biased because of the sample size and this is simply an anomaly that won't last?

Click to read more...

 

[MadLuke]

Any data to back this up or am I just biased because of the sample size and this is simply an anomaly that won't last?

Average height and weight went down a tiny bit versus just before the lock-out peak:

NHL Player Size From 1917-18 to 2014-15: A Brief Look

As any person interested in hockey stats should do, I’ve been gradually building my own personal database of player information that I can use when Y3K robs my future post-human self of cloud…

hockey-graphs.com

The you cannot teach size or we need someone to stop Lindros around those 94-97 draft is lesser now than back then and the too small talk way less of a big talking point even for say an extreme case like Cole Caufield.

 

[StreetHawk]

Smaller players need to be impactful. Teams are not going to carry sub 6 foot 3rd pairing Dmen for example. So if you are a smaller Dman like a zelleweger or Hutson coming up you need to put up point like Hughes does for Vancouver.

Same goes for a forward. Have to excel at either offense or Pk/checking. Can’t just be another guy. Cause then teams will opt for a comparable bigger player.

 

[Mrb1p]

Size never mattered but if it ever did, its now. Players are bigger and faster than ever. Skill and talent is prime.

 

[MadLuke]

Size never mattered

Strange how nhler were always so much higher than the population average than....

Would anyone say that about goaltender ?

. Players are bigger

Are they ?
Worth noting, though, is the plateau and slight decrease since the 2004 lockout. Whether teams are realizing a tipping point where too much skill is traded off for size,

Maybe it went up again, since 2014, but it has not been an always going up affair

 

[Appleyard]

Tbh size matters less in hockey than in most team sports...

mainly because it is primarily about skill above all else. Strength and reach helps... but not to the same degree of a lot of other team sports.

Soccer, cricket (aside from fast bowlers who are usually bigger guys) and lacrosse are the only major team sports worldwide where players are on average smaller.

Baseball players are even a bit bigger on average. Though more due to pitchers generally being big guys.

Then NBA, NFL, both rugby codes, water polo, handball, Aussie rules... size really matters more in general than in NHL.

 

[Appleyard]

Strange how nhler were always so much higher than the population average than....

Would anyone say that about goaltender ?


Are they ?
Worth noting, though, is the plateau and slight decrease since the 2004 lockout. Whether teams are realizing a tipping point where too much skill is traded off for size,

Maybe it went up again, since 2014, but it has not been an always going up affair

Since 14-15 the league got a tiny bit smaller tbh.

Height is still the same. Right around the 73.1 mark that has been the same for 30 years now.

But weight has reduced since then.

The average player the last few years has been around 198-199lbs the last few years. Players were generally over 200lbs from 1990 until 6-7 years ago. And from 1995-2011 205lbs was pretty much the norm.

From 1997-2011? The league was 73.2 inches tall and 205-206lbs average.
From 2018-present? The league is ~73.1 inches tall and ~198lbs average.

 

[MadLuke]

primarily about skill above all else.

Played with tool that offer leverage (stick, we see this in baseball a bit, pitcher do not have tools) and being played on the ground (versus the volleyball, basketball of the world were obviously being tall is such a giant advantage).

But the line in your profil pick, would they have been as skill but all 5 foot 5, 140 pounds, they do not have the same career.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

To me, size has almost always been secondary to skill, and only really becomes a factor when skill levels are essentially the same. But, I also think that the number of highly skilled players coming through the draft has drastically increased since about 2013, which is giving teams the chance to make more decisions based on skill, instead of taking the biggest of the interchangeable prospects left on the board.

 

[wmupreds]

It's not meaningless but a lot of people on HF and some GMs are obsessed with it to a ridiculous degree

 

[kingsholygrail]

I'm sure it does to a certain extent. There aren't a lot of manlets playing in the NHL. But just being big isn't going to get you far. You need something else. Plenty of big players play small.

 

[Appleyard]

Played with tool that offer leverage (stick, we see this in baseball a bit, pitcher do not have tools) and being played on the ground (versus the volleyball, basketball of the world were obviously being tall is such a giant advantage).

But the line in your profil pick, would they have been as skill but all 5 foot 5, 140 pounds, they do not have the same career.

100%.

Size matters in soccer too (the smallest of all team sports)... especially for some positions. It matters in every sport.

BUT I think hockey in general is one of the ones where guys who are say ~5'6-7 and 170lbs CAN excel.

Soccer, baseball and cricket might be the only other high level team sports where someone like that can excel. (ofc some lacrosse players have been that size... and very specific rugby and NFL positions can be 5'6-5'7... but they are like 190lbs+ at that height aha.)

There are ~50 guys in the league under 5'10.

 

[NyQuil]

So many size dimensions are exaggerated (which is pretty hilarious in this day and age) that it's hard to tell for sure based on the "official" statistics.

Maybe if we assume that they are consistently overrated from era to era, and from player to player...

I've met a few active NHL players over the years whose official heights are taller than me and I'm looking down on them.

 

[mr figgles]

Lidstrom, Bourque, Leetch, Chelios, Niedermayer, and Coffey are all within an inch of Karlsson. The really big guys seem to be the outliers among great dmen.

 

[Lshap]

So many size dimensions are exaggerated (which is pretty hilarious in this day and age) that it's hard to tell for sure based on the "official" statistics.

Maybe if we assume that they are consistently overrated from era to era, and from player to player...

I've met a few active NHL players over the years whose official heights are taller than me and I'm looking down on them.

I can't figure out the point of players lying about their heights, unless they use their hockey profiles on dating apps.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Lidstrom, Bourque, Leetch, Chelios, Niedermayer, and Coffey are all within an inch of Karlsson. The really big guys seem to be the outliers among great dmen.

Yeah, but all of those guys are 190+ lbs whereas Karlsson was around 165 when he entered the league. 20-30 lbs is a massive weight advantage. Not sure how much Lidstrom weighed when he came in though.

I can't figure out the point of players lying about their heights, unless they use their hockey profiles on dating apps.

Everyone likes being taller. Draymond Green was pissed off when they dropped him from 6'6" to 6'5", his real height lol.

 

[Coffey]

Matters less now than it did in the early-mid 2010s.
Oilers were small and talented, but got bullied constantly by bigger players when the meta of the league which was slow grindy play.

Now the meta is quick transition with speed. So yea, size does matter less.
This is coming from someone who say the Kings, Hawks, Blues and others push around and grind their small players into dust a decade ago.
There is a reason Chia got Lucic, but at that point the meta was shifting and of course he missed the memo.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I think it does in some aspect like perhaps screening a goalie or hitting but small players can do anything else.
Passing scoring playing defensively even playing the boards.

Best example is Martin St Louis who shined in an era of big men by using his skills and quickness

 

[mr figgles]

Yeah, but all of those guys are 190+ lbs whereas Karlsson was around 165 when he entered the league. 20-30 lbs is a massive weight advantage. Not sure how much Lidstrom weighed when he came in though.

He was drafted at 165. I doubt he was still that weight when he made his debut over a year later. I‘m sure he was much closer to the 190 he is now, when he had his big breakout season a few years later.

 

[kgboomer]

Vegas had one if not the biggest team in the league and won the Stanley Cup last year.

 

[Bottomshelf]

Size doesn’t matter as much as if you’re willing to use it to your advantage. Tons of players have been drafted for their size, or not drafted/slipped because of it. But at the end of the day if you’re a six foot three defender that weights 230 pounds but don’t play physical your size means far less. I think the reason more smaller players are excelling is because they go to the places you wouldn’t expect and use skill, speed and smarts to make their size a minimal issue.

I say the biggest change aside from overall skill is speed.

 

[Over the volcano]

Think there is a split - on defense size has become more important. Sure the guys like Fox and Makar are successful at smaller size but they're pretty obvious exceptions to the rule.

Of the remaining 4 teams I think Fox is the only defenseman under 6'1" on the ice.

 

[JoVel]

Size doesn't matter when you're a millionaire.

 

[gretzkyoilers]

It is good to have a mix for sure. It helps to have defenders that at 6+ feet and one smaller more mobile guy. I think look at the top scorers and you'll see them at ~5'10" to 6'1". McDavid seems to have the right compromise between height (looks like he is a legit 6'1"), reach (has long limbs), and agility. He's not just a speedy, shifty smaller guy, and can take a hit.

 

[cbcwpg]

Size doesn't matter in the regular season, but it seems to matter in the playoffs,