Does Nathan MacKinnon surpass Sakic and Forsberg as the best Avs player of all time?

[SeanMoneyHands]

When Nate retires, does this happen?

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[ManofSteel55]

It's hard to say what happens between now and retirement. It depends on the age he regresses at and his success for the rest of his career.

I voted that he will be above Forsberg, under the assumption that his career doesn't end early due to major injuries, but not Sakic. That said, I am not writing off the chance that he surpasses Joe, but with Sakic's longevity, leadership, etc, it won't be easy. Mack would have to maintain his current level for an awfully long time.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I have Sakic at 11th all time for centres, Forsberg at 22nd. I can see Mackinnon overtaking Forsberg, but he's not there yet. A dominant season like he's doing gets him pretty close.

Unlikely he overtakes Sakic, but it's possible. Sakic's freakish longevity will be hard to beat.

For reference, I have Crosby at 4, McDavid at 7, and Malkin at 20th amongst active players.

 

[Phrasing]

He won’t be better than Sakic

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Forsberg sure but not Sakic IMO.

However if he wins a couple more I can see it.

 

[TheGuiminator]

He will pass Forsberg, not sure about Sakic

 

[wetcoast]

I have Sakic at 11th all time for centres, Forsberg at 22nd. I can see Mackinnon overtaking Forsberg, but he's not there yet. A dominant season like he's doing gets him pretty close.

Unlikely he overtakes Sakic, but it's possible. Sakic's freakish longevity will be hard to beat.

For reference, I have Crosby at 4, McDavid at 7, and Malkin at 20th amongst active players.

Gretzky and Mario are obviously 1,2 but is Jean really ahead of Crosby at this point?

McDavid is fair at 7 but wondering what he has to do to pass 6 and 5?

He will pass Forsberg, not sure about Sakic

I think this might be the case but Sakic still needs to look over his shoulder.

 

[Foppberg]

At this rate, yes.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You know, with the way Nate takes care of himself, it's possible, but a power/speed game doesn't typically age as well. I dont think he surpasses Sakic and that's no disrespect to MacKinnon, he's just in that Bourque tier of we're talking about guys who were bonkers for almost fully 20 years and longevity is a big deal at the top of the GOAT discussions. Nate got a little later real start than Joe; if he's putting up 90 points in his late 30s then it's a convo.

Also nate's trophy case isn't quite there yet, Hart Pearson and Smythe are calling

But...I'm also a guy with a Sakic Nordique's jersey so take my biased opinion with a grain of salt

 

[jigglysquishy]

Gretzky and Mario are obviously 1,2 but is Jean really ahead of Crosby at this point?

McDavid is fair at 7 but wondering what he has to do to pass 6 and 5?


I think this might be the case but Sakic still needs to look over his shoulder.

I still have Beliveau ahead of Crosby, but the gap is becoming increasingly narrow.

Beliveau putting up elite seasons into his late 30s is the difference maker (as well as having the better single season and slightly better playoffs).

He lead Montreal in scoring in their 1969 Cup win and was the second best player on the team for that win.

In 1971 he tied for 2nd in Montreal for scoring in their Cup win (tied for playoff lead in EVP) and was maybe their 3rd best player in that Cup win.

Crosby is doing pretty much exactly what he needs to do to overtake Beliveau. But Crosby hasn't played his 35-39 year old seasons yet, while Beliveau did and looked amazing while doing it.

I fully expect McDavid to overtake Morenz and Nighbor at 5 and 6, it will just come with time. I only update my lists after every season, so it's up to end of playoffs 2023. If the Oilers make a strong run this year he might push ahead of both of them.

 

[blundluntman]

As great as he’s been this year, Sakic still has the better peak in my eyes. Mackinnon will have to keep this level of play up for a few seasons and age really well to surpass Sakic

 

[Sasha Orlov]

I have Sakic at 11th all time for centres, Forsberg at 22nd. I can see Mackinnon overtaking Forsberg, but he's not there yet. A dominant season like he's doing gets him pretty close.

Unlikely he overtakes Sakic, but it's possible. Sakic's freakish longevity will be hard to beat.

For reference, I have Crosby at 4, McDavid at 7, and Malkin at 20th amongst active players.

Bro what

 

[hamzarocks]

He will have passed both of them already if he takes the trifecta of ross + hart + lindsay

Forsberg talent wise was closer to Mack

Sakic is behind though by a fair margin talent wise.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Bro what

In my all time centres list I have 3 active players in the top 30.

Crosby at 4th
McDavid at 7th
Malkin at 20th

Mackinnon is kicking at the door of top 30 as is.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

In my all time centres list I have 3 active players in the top 30.

Crosby at 4th
McDavid at 7th
Malkin at 20th

Mackinnon is kicking at the door of top 30 as is.

Ok I completely misunderstood lol

 

[J T Money]

I’d have Roy as the best player for the Avalanche.

 

[tucker3434]

Forsberg had a high peak but no longevity. Mack already has more points in an Avs uniform than Forsberg had. If he can pick up a Hart/Art Ross this year, they’re even at worst with MacKinnon still having plenty left in the tank. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t fairly unanimously ahead of Forsberg when it’s all said and done.

Sakic is kinda the opposite. He had 100 points at 37. Finished with about twice as many total points as MacKinnon has now. I don’t think MacKinnon will put together a a whole career that impressive.

 

[wetcoast]

I still have Beliveau ahead of Crosby, but the gap is becoming increasingly narrow.

Beliveau putting up elite seasons into his late 30s is the difference maker (as well as having the better single season and slightly better playoffs).

He lead Montreal in scoring in their 1969 Cup win and was the second best player on the team for that win.

In 1971 he tied for 2nd in Montreal for scoring in their Cup win (tied for playoff lead in EVP) and was maybe their 3rd best player in that Cup win.

Crosby is doing pretty much exactly what he needs to do to overtake Beliveau. But Crosby hasn't played his 35-39 year old seasons yet, while Beliveau did and looked amazing while doing it.

I fully expect McDavid to overtake Morenz and Nighbor at 5 and 6, it will just come with time. I only update my lists after every season, so it's up to end of playoffs 2023. If the Oilers make a strong run this year he might push ahead of both of them.

Roger that but I disagree on Jean and Sid, Crosby passed him a couple of seasons ago on my ledger, in part to having a much better start to his career.

 

[wetcoast]

As great as he’s been this year, Sakic still has the better peak in my eyes. Mackinnon will have to keep this level of play up for a few seasons and age really well to surpass Sakic

I read this and have to ask what you mean by Peak?

I use best 3 consecutive years and off the top on my head I wonder if Mack has the better 7 year prime with this season included.

When I have time I might take a deeper dive but Mack is winning the Hart this year barring injury.

 

[Ceremony]

The Avalanche board on here voted MacKinnon 4th last summer: HFAvs Ranks: The 50 Greatest Avalanche Players - #5

#1 - Joe Sakic (88.9%)
#2 - Peter Forsberg (55.7%)
#3 - Patrick Roy (89.6%)
#4 - Nathan MacKinnon (71.4%)

To give a rough idea of where he is now.

 

[blundluntman]

I read this and have to ask what you mean by Peak?

I use best 3 consecutive years and off the top on my head I wonder if Mack has the better 7 year prime with this season included.

When I have time I might take a deeper dive but Mack is winning the Hart this year barring injury.

When I say peak I personally look at a player when they were at their absolute best for at least a full season. Sakic in 01 for example is the best season in our franchise’s history as far as I’m concerned. Consistency is important as well but I don’t mind if there’s an off season or two in between a player’s prime as long as they don’t fall off a Cliff. Mackinnon has put together an amazing string of seasons since 2018 without a doubt but I think at their absolute best, Sakic was the better player. For me it’s 01 Sakic > Mackinnon this season > 96 Sakic > Mackinnon last season

 

[TheStatican]

The Avalanche board on here voted MacKinnon 4th last summer: HFAvs Ranks: The 50 Greatest Avalanche Players - #5

#1 - Joe Sakic (88.9%)
#2 - Peter Forsberg (55.7%)
#3 - Patrick Roy (89.6%)
#4 - Nathan MacKinnon (71.4%)

To give a rough idea of where he is now.

Would be interesting to see that vote after this season should he sweep the major awards and set the new single season franchise scoring records like he's pacing to do

 

[bleedgreen]

He’d have to be clutch for a long time to overcome Sakic. The thing is, he tends to actually be that clutch so you can’t say he won’t for sure.

I think he catches Forsberg.

 

[Buck Naked]

I have Sakic at 11th all time for centres, Forsberg at 22nd. I can see Mackinnon overtaking Forsberg, but he's not there yet. A dominant season like he's doing gets him pretty close.

Unlikely he overtakes Sakic, but it's possible. Sakic's freakish longevity will be hard to beat.

For reference, I have Crosby at 4, Backstrom at 3, McDavid at 7, and Malkin at 20th amongst active players.

Agree about Backstrom.

 

[Ceremony]

Would be interesting to see that vote after this season should he sweep the major awards and set the new single season franchise scoring records like he's pacing to do

We got a bit bored towards the end so I said I'd do a top 30 in summer 2025 for our 30th anniversary. You'll need to wait, sorry.