OT: Does it bother you that Rogers/Bell own the Leafs?

[Leaf Rocket]

So much for having hockey people make the decisions. With Burke it lasted 4 years. Now with Bell/Rogers, it looks like corporate people making hockey decisions. It'll be clear soon enough.

The one thing that bothers me the most is how we don't allow our teams to have a GM solidify his own stamp, just a freaking juggling act one after another. It doesn't bode well.

 

[Woodman19]

Woodman lets stop with this Oh Rogers is a great owners for the Jays.

This is what happen this offseason with the Jays. They talked to the Marlins about Johnson and Loria was looking to make another fire sale and gut his franchise. The deal got bigger and bigger to the point where it became a blockbuster and AA was in the right spot at the right time by asking about Johnson on that particular day.

Now say the Marlins had a half decent year and competed for a playoff spot do you think they make that deal with the Jays? Hell no.

Do you then think Rogers would have given AA the green light to spend $120 on payroll and bring in a few big ticket FA. Hell NO.

So the Jays got lucky and Rogers was then forced to do it cause if not and the public found out that they had a shot at this blockbuster and was kibosh-ed by ownership over money the fans would have revolted.

To say Rogers is a good owner for the Jays is false...they haven't had no sucess since they owned them and kept them with low payroll.

Funny how the Leaf situation is pretty close to the Jays. The Jays rebuilt over a 4 year period and now with some prospects made a franchise altering deal. The Leafs after 4 years have turned the franchise around and now have some prospect depth and core guys on the main club.

Only difference is Burke was not given the change to make that franchise altering deal. George Cope the CEO of Bell wanted an AA type who is quiet in charge of the team and instead of standing up for Burke Rogers and Larry just got worn down and said do what you want.

What is going to be even funnier is when the Leafs get better it will be players Burke brought in and people will be like we know it was Burke.

I blame George Cope and the fact he could not handle Burke's personality.

Without the hard work done by the jays front office to get rid of all our bad contracts and rebuilding our farm system we are not in a position to be "lucky". Fact is had AA been reactionary and got Fielder and Darvish last year we would not of made the Marlins oe Mets deal. You are so quick to write it off as luck but why is it in sports good management always is linked with long term success? Is it any coincidence that its always the same teams who draft steals and achieve success or is it because the people running the show are better at team building then their competition? At some point you have to conclude that it happens to frequently to be pure luck.

 

[CellarDweller0]

It didn't bother me until yesterday. IMHO Burke has positioned himself to acquire some nice free agents this summer, namely Perry and Getz. It's likely that ownership killed our chances to obtain them now just so they could show Burke "who's boss". Furthermore I don't think it ends there. Clearly Nonis is not very happy with his promotion, and frankly would not be surprised if he leaves at some point in the near future. Then there is the question of asset retention and how this firing will affect players wanting to resign with this organization. There is already talk about what to do with Kessel with his last two years remaining. His last year has a limited NTC so moving him would be easier this year. Lupul also needs to be resigned. So now not only do we risk not being able to bring in some great players but we might lose 2/3 of our top line and the remaining 1/3 should never be on a top line role on any team.

This organization is a joke if this is the modus operandi moving forward.
The information that will come from the organization will be fraudulent as they control 90% of the media outlets.
Rogers talking heads are blaming Bell and Bell talking heads are blaming Rogers for the firing.

It's a ****ING JOKE.

 

[MajorityRules*]

Off the top of my head they have owned the team for about 10-15 years. They have not made the playoffs since 1993 when they won the world series and they have had a payroll in the bottom to around the 10th hight spending this year. Like the Leafs the Jays had been plagued by inept GM's until recently but now the team has a bright future both now and in 5-10 years from all the hard work in player development.

I fully admit I don't follow the Jays and only pick up little things through the news but from what your saying, they have done nothing except this year they made a huge trade that has everyone jumping for joy yet they haven't even started the season and your ready to call it a success. It's not hard to see the bias undertone of your posts.

 

[MajorityRules*]

The one thing that bothers me the most is how we don't allow our teams to have a GM solidify his own stamp, just a freaking juggling act one after another. It doesn't bode well.

It's what bothered me most as well. When it was first announced that Bell/Rogers were buying the team, my first worry was just this. They fire Burke and we're back to a revolving door of GM's who have 5 years or less to make this team a consistent playoff team. Not a Stanley Cup contender, just a playoff team. The only saving grace is Nonis knows the team and has his fingerprints all over it already so it shouldn't be a total demolition. If Nonis is to be the GM, I sincerely hope he is given ample time (more than a few years) to make this his team. He's halfway there already so fingers crossed.

 

[Woodman19]

I fully admit I don't follow the Jays and only pick up little things through the news but from what your saying, they have done nothing except this year they made a huge trade that has everyone jumping for joy yet they haven't even started the season and your ready to call it a success. It's not hard to see the bias undertone of your posts.

They have done tons, they had been dumping bad contracts on other teans like Wells and his mega deal as well as drafting and signing amateur talent at an extreme rate as evident by the money spent on scouting and draft bonus'. In between that time we have been resigning our core pieces and made some high risk high reward deals to try to add more core talent. While its easy to say we haven't done anything because of the results to date it has been time spent building up the talent in the farm system that we are finally now tapping into. There is no way we are able to make the moves this year if we did not retain our core players, build the financial flexibility from offloading dead weight and having the trade chips to appeal to other teams where unlike the NHL you can't simply trade draft picks. My point is you can't say the jays position right now is luck when there was 3 years of hard front office work that allowed us the resources to pull it off.

 

[ryno23]

They have done tons, they had been dumping bad contracts on other teans like Wells and his mega deal as well as drafting and signing amateur talent at an extreme rate as evident by the money spent on scouting and draft bonus'. In between that time we have been resigning our core pieces and made some high risk high reward deals to try to add more core talent. While its easy to say we haven't done anything because of the results to date it has been time spent building up the talent in the farm system that we are finally now tapping into. There is no way we are able to make the moves this year if we did not retain our core players, build the financial flexibility from offloading dead weight and having the trade chips to appeal to other teams where unlike the NHL you can't simply trade draft picks. My point is you can't say the jays position right now is luck when there was 3 years of hard front office work that allowed us the resources to pull it off.

Come on Woodman you are a pretty smart poster. Your trying to tell me that the Marlins deal was not luck? I don't think AA was sitting there and going hey lets stock up the farm and get rid of all bad contracts and wait for the Marlins fire sale.

As I said what was AA off season plan if the Marlins don't hold a fire sale. History and track record show a lack of going into the FA market and better yet the team rule of no contract longer than 5 years. This would has stopped the Jays in pursuing many top FA over the past few years. Rogers not willing to ante up to high payrolls.

So without the Marlins fire sale what would this team look like this upcoming season? Pretty much the same group that faltered this past season. Maybe they would have added a couple of pitchers but they would have had to overpay to bring them to Toronto and fans would be crying about overpayment to players.

Burke did exactly what AA has done the only difference he has not had his chance to make his blockbuster with his farm team depth and he is outspoken way more than AA.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Come on Woodman you are a pretty smart poster. Your trying to tell me that the Marlins deal was not luck? I don't think AA was sitting there and going hey lets stock up the farm and get rid of all bad contracts and wait for the Marlins fire sale.

As I said what was AA off season plan if the Marlins don't hold a fire sale. History and track record show a lack of going into the FA market and better yet the team rule of no contract longer than 5 years. This would has stopped the Jays in pursuing many top FA over the past few years. Rogers not willing to ante up to high payrolls.

So without the Marlins fire sale what would this team look like this upcoming season? Pretty much the same group that faltered this past season. Maybe they would have added a couple of pitchers but they would have had to overpay to bring them to Toronto and fans would be crying about overpayment to players.

Burke did exactly what AA has done the only difference he has not had his chance to make his blockbuster with his farm team depth and he is outspoken way more than AA.

He would have made other smaller deals to get the pieces here that he wanted. Come on, man, finally Rogers ponies up the money and you're still not happy saying it was luck. If the Marlins trade would never have happened then something else would have.

 

[Woodman19]

Come on Woodman you are a pretty smart poster. Your trying to tell me that the Marlins deal was not luck? I don't think AA was sitting there and going hey lets stock up the farm and get rid of all bad contracts and wait for the Marlins fire sale.

As I said what was AA off season plan if the Marlins don't hold a fire sale. History and track record show a lack of going into the FA market and better yet the team rule of no contract longer than 5 years. This would has stopped the Jays in pursuing many top FA over the past few years. Rogers not willing to ante up to high payrolls.

So without the Marlins fire sale what would this team look like this upcoming season? Pretty much the same group that faltered this past season. Maybe they would have added a couple of pitchers but they would have had to overpay to bring them to Toronto and fans would be crying about overpayment to players.

Burke did exactly what AA has done the only difference he has not had his chance to make his blockbuster with his farm team depth and he is outspoken way more than AA.

No one can have kind of foresight however the ability to make that trade was done by the 3 years of work of AA. Question for you is would you rather Fielder and Darvish or have all the moves we made this year? I can assure you that had we done what you were crying for last year we would not have the resources to make the firesale. Also, why did other teams not come in and beat us to the punch if it was pure luck? We are not the only team who has money to obsorb the contracts?

 

[NewFang]

Our New Meddling Owner: George Cope

The JFJ years are once again upon us I'm afraid.

As more and more details surface on the Burke firing, it's become clear that it was George Cope's agenda for several months to get rid of Burke due to not liking his demeanor, style, etc.

The timing and reasoning of this particular incident do not sound like we have an owner who's #1 priority is winning. They sound like the actions of a big ego, who thinks he knows more about hockey, or feels like serving his own personal tastes above winning.

I wonder what other agendas he has for this team? I wonder what will happen if he "doesn't like" a player or coach?

Fun time ahead leafs nation.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1312935--burke-s-firing-not-a-hockey-decision-dimanno

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...oronto-maple-leafs-new-suits-lacked-class-cox

They didn’t dislike what Brian Burke was doing with the Toronto Maple Leafs. They just don’t like Brian Burke.

For “they’’ insert this name: George Cope.

Doesn’t ring a bell? That’s funny, actually.

Cope is president and CEO of BCE and Bell Canada, which jointly with Rogers now owns 75 per cent of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment. The corporate consortium — Megabuckszilla — took custodianship of Canada’s most illustrious sports property from the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Fund last summer.

Cope wanted Burke out, sources have told the Star. Cope got his way. Didn’t like the cut of Burke’s jib, his personality, the perennially loosened tie, the combustible temper, the maverick independence, the swagger or the mouth that so often roared. The “branding’’ wasn’t right.

This is not meant to be another Burke thread. I just feel like that is the first in what could be a series of meddling moves due to George Cope. It's coming....

 

[Patty Lee]

The JFJ years are once again upon us I'm afraid.

As more and more details surface on the Burke firing, it's become clear that it was George Cope's agenda for several months to get rid of Burke due to not liking his demeanor, style, etc.

The timing and reasoning of this particular incident do not sound like we have an owner who's #1 priority is winning. They sound like the actions of a big ego, who thinks he knows more about hockey, or feels like serving his own personal tastes above winning.

I wonder what other agendas he has for this team? I wonder what will happen if he "doesn't like" a player or coach?

Fun time ahead leafs nation.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1312935--burke-s-firing-not-a-hockey-decision-dimanno

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...oronto-maple-leafs-new-suits-lacked-class-cox




This is not meant to be another Burke thread. I just feel like that is the first in what could be a series of meddling moves due to George Cope. It's coming....

legimate reason for dismissal; how does it imply he will meddle in the how the new GM runs the team?

 

[SprDaVE]

Yawwwwnnnn

 

[NewFang]

legimate reason for dismissal; how does it imply he will meddle in the how the new GM runs the team?

Don't want to dwell on the Burke thing, but it does not sit well with me that he'd lobby so hard for such a change just because he doesn't like someone's style. What other agendas does he have to push? Who else doesn't he like?

 

[NewFang]

Uggg....can't believe my thread got merged. I don't care about Bell/Rogers as corporations owning the leafs. I'm calling out George Cope.

 

[Patty Lee]

Don't want to dwell on the Burke thing, but it does not sit well with me that he'd lobby so hard for such a change just because he doesn't like someone's style. What other agendas does he have to push? Who else doesn't he like?

i don't know who else he doesn't like but when the owner doesn't like the top guy he has every right to change the top guy.

welcome to the real world sport.

 

[Sokil]

No, not at all. Never had a problem with Rogers' ownership of the Jays, so don't see the problem with the Leafs. The Teachers were horrible owners, lets give Rogers/Bell a chance.

 

[Sokil]

i don't know who else he doesn't like but when the owner doesn't like the top guy he has every right to change the top guy.

welcome to the real world sport.

Not only that, but in the chain of things the one move owners make is appointing the president and the GM (in this case, a dual role). The GM doesn't like the coach? He fires him. Coach doesn't like a player? He benches him.

This is the chain of command and literally the one move ownership is allowed to make, and yet people don't understand it.

Want to talk meddling ownership? Look at George Steinbrenner, or most other single-owner teams. With corporate ownership, we have the benefit of things potentially being much less personal.

 

[NewFang]

i don't know who else he doesn't like but when the owner doesn't like the top guy he has every right to change the top guy.

welcome to the real world sport.

Sorry, Firing the GM a week before season starts simply because you dont like his style is not the move of someone who puts winning first. It's an ego move. Hopefully I'm wrong, and this is not the tip of the ice burg that is George Cope.

 

[ACC1224]

Sorry, Firing the GM a week before season starts simply because you dont like his style is not the move of someone who puts winning first. It's an ego move. Hopefully I'm wrong, and this is not the tip of the ice burg that is George Cope.

I think it was the President they fired, he took the GM with him.

 

[Sokil]

Sorry, Firing the GM a week before season starts simply because you dont like his style is not the move of someone who puts winning first. It's an ego move. Hopefully I'm wrong, and this is not the tip of the ice burg that is George Cope.

when would you rather fire him? during the lockout when ownership / governors had to show solidarity? before the draft? maybe scramble and do it before free agency?

now is not a bad time at all to fire a GM, no worse than the other options.

 

[Patty Lee]

Sorry, Firing the GM a week before season starts simply because you dont like his style is not the move of someone who puts winning first. It's an ego move. Hopefully I'm wrong, and this is not the tip of the ice burg that is George Cope.

If he was really the true GM I would be more concerned. BB's leadership team probably cost him his job now and not in March or April. Not a beat will be missed with the team of individuals already in place.

maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. I think your grasping at straws. the timing is strange, for sure, but it in no way implies a meddling owner like you're trying to sell

 

[Joey Hoser]

Doesn't really matter if we like it or not, it can't really be any different. There aren't a lot of companies around, let alone people, with 1.6 billion kicking around to spend on a sports team.

 

[ACC1224]

Who is the new acting President, Anselmi?

 

[Tak7]

Who owns the Leafs doesn't bother me. It shouldn't bother you. None of you should give two royal sh*ts who owns the Leafs

What should bother you though, is if/when the owners start meddling into hockey affairs that they have no business getting involved in.

 

[Patty Lee]

Who owns the Leafs doesn't bother me. It shouldn't bother you. None of you should give two royal sh*ts who owns the Leafs

What should bother you though, is if/when the owners start meddling into hockey affairs that they have no business getting involved in.

why worry about it before it happens?