Dodge is discontinuing the Charger/Challenger for, well, this...

[TaLoN]

Dodge to reveal final 'Last Call' car on March 20 in Las Vegas

Dodge announced the reveal date for the final "Last Call" Charger and/or Challenger, and will turn the event into a big muscle car-themed party.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Hellcat]

so point me in the direction of you complaining about ABS. Or power steering. Or...hell, pick anything that has been implemented over the past thirty years that isn't a fully electric car. If the driving experience is such a high priority then essentially anything that assists the driver should receive at least a modicum of the vitriol thrown at electric cars.

But it doesn't happen. No one complains about the driver assistance in gasoline powered cars and the horse and torque are the first numbers people will spout off. Bemoaning the death of the driving experience is only used to rag on electric cars, not because they are actually doing it but because it's easy and people don't like electric cars for reasons.

If you want a car that offers more of an experience, I'm sure there are cars out there that will still strip things back (well, maybe, not promising that) or buy an older car. And if there is really a market for it, someone probably will fill it with an electric, too. Instead of plaid, maybe they'll have a PITA mode.

You're kinda making a binary argument there, not all improvements in cars that are electric have been bad or good. Some are bad some are good. Power steering, electric brakes, etc.. are all great innovations.

There is no emotional connection to an electric engine, the sound of nothing does not get the blood pumping. The rumble of a 392ci engine as it starts up , lets you know you are in for some fun. With combustion engines there is a skill a sport to driving them. Electric is simply boring, there is no skill in driving an electric car.

Not to mention that electric cars are being touted as the save the planet environmentally friendly evolution. They are not. The environmental damage from Lithium strip mining is disgusting. Not to mention the toxic sludge runoff and the child slave labor that some mines use. Oil companies are not innocent either but they dont pretend to be world savers. Electric cars are the very definition of a Wolf in Sheep's clothing.

Electric cars suck in low temps, suck to the point of risking being stranded because the battery depletes at a much much quicker rate as the teams drop.

If a combustion engine blows, you are looking at 15k to 20k , if your batteries are defective you are looking at 45k to 60k to replace.

They are as douchie as it gets.

I can understand wanting performance above all at the track in a competitive situation. To me, that's not the issue. The issue is on the street. My Shelby is a convertible, no roll cage, so not even permitted on the track.

I respect you for being a purist but a human can't shift as fast or as efficient as automatic trannys can now. If you want the fun of slapping a stick , I get it but there is zero competitive advantage of a stick over an auto.

 

[TaLoN]

I get it but there is zero competitive advantage of a stick over an auto.

I did imply that in my post. That's why I said I understand it in a competitive situation.

I'm not driving in competition, which is why I want stick. More fun.

 

[Hellcat]

I did imply that in my post. That's why I said I understand it in a competitive situation.

I'm not driving in competition, which is why I want stick. More fun.

When you said the issue is on the street, I took that as there is an advantage to a stick on the street.

 

[TaLoN]

When you said the issue is on the street, I took that as there is an advantage to a stick on the street.

You can't "race" between stoplights. Any place you CAN race, my convertible would not be permitted due to a lack of a roll cage.

 

[Hellcat]

You can't "race" between stoplights. Any place you CAN race, my convertible would not be permitted due to a lack of a roll cage.

Your not supposed to race between lights, it does not stop road racing entirely . Dude just got nailed here doing 120 mph in a 35 mph zone. If I misread your post, apologies.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Worst drivers on the road by far

 

[DynastyCentralSports]

You're kinda making a binary argument there, not all improvements in cars that are electric have been bad or good. Some are bad some are good. Power steering, electric brakes, etc.. are all great innovations.

There is no emotional connection to an electric engine, the sound of nothing does not get the blood pumping. The rumble of a 392ci engine as it starts up , lets you know you are in for some fun. With combustion engines there is a skill a sport to driving them. Electric is simply boring, there is no skill in driving an electric car.

Not to mention that electric cars are being touted as the save the planet environmentally friendly evolution. They are not. The environmental damage from Lithium strip mining is disgusting. Not to mention the toxic sludge runoff and the child slave labor that some mines use. Oil companies are not innocent either but they dont pretend to be world savers. Electric cars are the very definition of a Wolf in Sheep's clothing.

Electric cars suck in low temps, suck to the point of risking being stranded because the battery depletes at a much much quicker rate as the teams drop.

If a combustion engine blows, you are looking at 15k to 20k , if your batteries are defective you are looking at 45k to 60k to replace.

They are as douchie as it gets.

I respect you for being a purist but a human can't shift as fast or as efficient as automatic trannys can now. If you want the fun of slapping a stick , I get it but there is zero competitive advantage of a stick over an auto.

I think you're extremely misguided based on this post about EVs and how they're built.

You mention lithium mine yet you post a photo of a copper mine (source: Chile copper sector faces strike possibility), which millions of electronics (not just EVs use copper) Lithium Mining is a drop in the bucket compared to any of the even minor oil and gas disasters that have occured in history. Deepwater Horizon is still affecting the ecosystem a decade later.

Funny you mention child slave labor being a problem (which it definitely is and I'm against it) but it has very little to actually do with EVs. Cobalt which is the material most commonly associated with Child Slave Labor. Perhaps you forgot that Cobalt's main use in the world is desulfurization of oil to create gasoline? Perhaps you forgot that every cell phone, every laptop, every battery in the planet uses cobalt as well? Not to mention any cobalt used in an EV battery will have atleast a lifespan of 400k+ miles of use which based on 12k miles a year is 33.3 years of use for a material only mined once (not to mention Cobalt is also found as byproduct of copper mining and as I said before everything uses Copper, not just EVs.)

You'd be shocked to find out most EV owners don't buy their cars to "save the planet" such as myself I own two EVs and I bought them because I save about 85-90% of my money driving the same mile an ICE does. Having said that did you know that an EV charged with 100% coal energy (not available in US) is still cleaner per mile than any ICE? I'm sure youre reading this going "well do you know what makes up your electricity?" Yes I do, at my home it's 100% solar, however in my region 0.8% of the electricity is made up of coal and over 25% is renewable energy. What type of electricity do gas stations use to pump gasoline?

You mention cold weather affecting EVs which they tend to do, I agree however you cleverly leave out that ICE also has similar problems with cold weather and can hurt the efficiency of the engine (an engine that is already terrible efficient compared to an electric motor.) at 20 Degrees an ICE can lose up to 12% of their range.

"If a combustion engine blows, you are looking at 15k to 20k , if your batteries are defective you are looking at 45k to 60k to replace."

This is simply quite a blantant lie. EV batteries are not cheap to replace (even though they come with an industry standard 8yr/100k warranty - however CA does it better by mandating a 10yr-150k mile warranty) but if needed replacement will not ever cost 45 to 60k, as battery prices go down (as they have over a decade period) to replace a Tesla Model Y battery pack today would cost between 10-13K (source: Tesla Battery Replacement Cost Explained)

Clearly you're an ICE enthusiat, Im glad you love your ICE and the vibrations from an engine rumble sends you, however spewing misinformation about EVs isn't a great look. It's also pretty shortsighted for you to talk about something you have no clue about, nor do you or have you ever owned one. You repeat debunked information as if they cannot be easily found online to correct you. Perhaps instead of insulting EVs and pushing misinformation, just accept theres a new mode of driving and just enjoy your own car.

 

[Hellcat]

I think you're extremely misguided based on this post about EVs and how they're built.

You mention lithium mine yet you post a photo of a copper mine (source: Chile copper sector faces strike possibility), which millions of electronics (not just EVs use copper) Lithium Mining is a drop in the bucket compared to any of the even minor oil and gas disasters that have occured in history. Deepwater Horizon is still affecting the ecosystem a decade later.

Funny you mention child slave labor being a problem (which it definitely is and I'm against it) but it has very little to actually do with EVs. Cobalt which is the material most commonly associated with Child Slave Labor. Perhaps you forgot that Cobalt's main use in the world is desulfurization of oil to create gasoline? Perhaps you forgot that every cell phone, every laptop, every battery in the planet uses cobalt as well? Not to mention any cobalt used in an EV battery will have atleast a lifespan of 400k+ miles of use which based on 12k miles a year is 33.3 years of use for a material only mined once (not to mention Cobalt is also found as byproduct of copper mining and as I said before everything uses Copper, not just EVs.)

You'd be shocked to find out most EV owners don't buy their cars to "save the planet" such as myself I own two EVs and I bought them because I save about 85-90% of my money driving the same mile an ICE does. Having said that did you know that an EV charged with 100% coal energy (not available in US) is still cleaner per mile than any ICE? I'm sure youre reading this going "well do you know what makes up your electricity?" Yes I do, at my home it's 100% solar, however in my region 0.8% of the electricity is made up of coal and over 25% is renewable energy. What type of electricity do gas stations use to pump gasoline?

You mention cold weather affecting EVs which they tend to do, I agree however you cleverly leave out that ICE also has similar problems with cold weather and can hurt the efficiency of the engine (an engine that is already terrible efficient compared to an electric motor.) at 20 Degrees an ICE can lose up to 12% of their range.

"If a combustion engine blows, you are looking at 15k to 20k , if your batteries are defective you are looking at 45k to 60k to replace."

This is simply quite a blantant lie. EV batteries are not cheap to replace (even though they come with an industry standard 8yr/100k warranty - however CA does it better by mandating a 10yr-150k mile warranty) but if needed replacement will not ever cost 45 to 60k, as battery prices go down (as they have over a decade period) to replace a Tesla Model Y battery pack today would cost between 10-13K (source: Tesla Battery Replacement Cost Explained)

Clearly you're an ICE enthusiat, Im glad you love your ICE and the vibrations from an engine rumble sends you, however spewing misinformation about EVs isn't a great look. It's also pretty shortsighted for you to talk about something you have no clue about, nor do you or have you ever owned one. You repeat debunked information as if they cannot be easily found online to correct you. Perhaps instead of insulting EVs and pushing misinformation, just accept theres a new mode of driving and just enjoy your own car.

No clue eh? Pot calling the kettle? I didn't make any of this up, it's all documented truths

Environmental damage from a Lithium mine


The beauty of a Lithium mine


Not a lie at all - to replace the battery it was 60k


EV's in my area make no sense financially, to install solar on my roof (I had a quote done in May of this year), I would pay between $250 to $300 more a month. For an EV car, I would pay $300 to $400 more a month, when you consider fuel, maintenance costs and cost to purchase. Once it is cheaper to go EV, I'm switching everything, even though EV cars have all the personality of a piece of Melba toast. Even though they suck in cold weather and they are a pain in the ass to charge. It's a dollars and cents calculus for me.

I've owned combustion engines for close to 40 years and have never had an issue with one turning over in any weather, I live in Canada I know cold weather, I've experienced minus 55 windchill a few times, minus 40 is not uncommon in the winter.


As I said in my OP, Oil companies are not innocent and have a long long history of environmental damage BUT when people promote EV's as the next coming of Christ and the answer to all of our environmental problems that is simply a marketing scam. EV's have their place but are not nearly the snow white saviours that their marketing machine promotes.

 

[End of Line]

 

[Nothingbutglass]

EV's in my area make no sense financially, to install solar on my roof (I had a quote done in May of this year), I would pay between $250 to $300 more a month. For an EV car, I would pay $300 to $400 more a month, when you consider fuel, maintenance costs and cost to purchase. Once it is cheaper to go EV, I'm switching everything, even though EV cars have all the personality of a piece of Melba toast. Even though they suck in cold weather and they are a pain in the ass to charge. It's a dollars and cents calculus for me.

I've owned combustion engines for close to 40 years and have never had an issue with one turning over in any weather, I live in Canada I know cold weather, I've experienced minus 55 windchill a few times, minus 40 is not uncommon in the winter.

EV's in most areas of the US dont make sense financially right now. The use case is limited at least in the US. Hybrids that can self charge make the most sense currently. I couldnt have a EV as a daily driver. It gets cold in the winter and I'd have to hunt to find a charging station. Electric trucks are even more useless.

 

[Hellcat]

That car is stupid .... I LOVE IT!!!!!

 

[Hellcat]

EV's in most areas of the US dont make sense financially right now. The use case is limited at least in the US. Hybrids that can self charge make the most sense currently. I couldnt have a EV as a daily driver. It gets cold in the winter and I'd have to hunt to find a charging station. Electric trucks are even more useless.

Agreed, the lack of infrastructure to charge an EV is a considerable limiting factor for a lot of people. I watched a video comparing the Cyber truck to a combustion engine truck, the thing that stuck out for me is the predicted charge remaining, it went from some thing like half a charge left to less than a quarter charge in a blink of an eye, no explanation why, just did cause it wanted too. If you are traveling with an EV I'm sure you are planning your route around where there are charging stations, if you expected to get x amount of hours and you know it takes x amount of time to get from station to station, I'm sure seeing an unexpected drop in remaining charge makes your butt pucker, thoughts of am I going to get to my next charging station probably pop in your mind. For me owning an EV would be too stressful.

 

[Sheppy]

I'm curious on the performance of the SIXPACK HO

I am also curious on the price of one of these. Everything is mental these days.