Value of: Dobson to Montreal

[Breakers]

So does it sound like the islanders just don’t want to pay him

He’s an rfa
But is in 8 figure AAV territory

 

[RationalExpectations]

So does it sound like the islanders just don’t want to pay him

He’s an rfa
But is in 8 figure AAV territory

I don t think he is worth 10+ and I like him a lot since his draft. He is not one of the top QBs in this league, and not one of the top defensive Dmen either. He is good everywhere and has very good Puck and passing skills but to me that does not make him worth 10+ per year.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Zub would be better and cheaper option. Of course I doubt Ottawa will trade him to Montreal...

 

[miscs75]

Matheson has 1 more year. So you'd rather have Savard as a rental? But you guys probably aren't even making the playoffs.

Rather have the rental then the extra year of a cap hit with another player who realistically doesn’t fill a need outside of wasted cap space. Deal with Savard until the summer then give the roster even more flexibility instead of being stuck with another aging veteran. Plus Matheson makes an additional $1m per year compared to Savard ($4.88 vs $3.5). He’s your cap problem until 2026.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Owen Beck has a YG already in the Upper Deck set, he has MASSIVE value.

not for Dobson though, wtf is this anyways lmao. I prob wouldnt take the entire batch in the OP for Dobson.
improve the offer or kick rocks. its pretty simple really

 

[Gaud]

not for Dobson though, wtf is this anyways lmao. I prob wouldnt take the entire batch in the OP for Dobson.
improve the offer or kick rocks. its pretty simple really

thats... quite the statement, given that the "batch" is:

1 top 4 roster D,
3 (probably B level) forwards with top 9 potential
2 D prospects, one of which is likely top 4 material,
3 1st rounders in the next 2 drafts (not protected that i can see)
7 picks in the 2nd-4th round range.

 

[miscs75]

not for Dobson though, wtf is this anyways lmao. I prob wouldnt take the entire batch in the OP for Dobson.
improve the offer or kick rocks. its pretty simple really

That was a joke. Beck is another middle of the pack prospect who’s getting hype because he’s with Montreal. Overall not even worth it for the Isles.

 

[Parliament]

I think you overvalue Dobson. He's not having a great year then will have to pay him a ton of money.

Lol I'd say that's rather short sighted to only value Dobson based on one season. I mean he put up ~70 pts last season, and 51 + 49 in the seasons prior and he only just turned 25 in January.

Additionally, it's pretty much the entire NYI who are having a down year - it's not a Dobson specific thing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I pass on Dobson. I rather keep Matheson at RD with Hutson, and see if we can trade for Nemec instead.

Aside from age, I find points, corsi, hits, blocks, giveaways, and takeaways similar between Dobson and Matheson.

Big fan of Dobson but cost to acquire is too high and his next contract will be something I rather avoid. It's enough we will have to extend Hutson

That was a joke. Beck is another middle of the pack prospect who’s getting hype because he’s with Montreal. Overall not even worth it for the Isles.

Most Habs fans have Beck as a B+ type and we know is is probably a 3C if he reaches his ceiling. But then other fans like you see some talk about him and think our entire fan base is overrating him.

Habs are not trading for Dobson. Cost is too high and his next contract will be too high as well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lol I'd say that's rather short sighted to only value Dobson based on one season. I mean he put up ~70 pts last season, and 51 + 49 in the seasons prior and he only just turned 25 in January.

Additionally, it's pretty much the entire NYI who are having a down year - it's not a Dobson specific thing.

Habs are better off keeping Matheson at RD with Hutson while we let Reinbacher develop and search for someone like Nemec instead (trade).

I'm a big fan of Dobson but I like what Matheson provides at RD. Dobson stands to improve on the D side but today, he's not that much better than Matheson in the D zone. Go check the corsi, points, hits, blocks, giveaways, and takeaways.

Some Habs fans are too guilty of overlooking what Matheson is providing us. They want to trade everything that is older than Suzuki.

 

[miscs75]

Most Habs fans have Beck as a B+ type and we know is is probably a 3C if he reaches his ceiling. But then other fans like you see some talk about him and think our entire fan base is overrating him.

Habs are not trading for Dobson. Cost is too high and his next contract will be too high as well.

It’s just that it’s not some talk, he does one good thing and is talked about like the next savior of the roster. Ryan Poehling, Rafael Harvey-Pinard and even elite goal scoring winger from Toronto Nick Robertson for example. Do one good thing and we hear about them at nauseum until they fizzle out into nothingness and become bottom 6 players or lower. If he’s at best going to be a bottom 6 center, those guys are a dime a dozen at this point and can be kept on the cheap.

You are correct that Dobson will cost too much because of age, RFA status and recent 70pt season he’ll command a hefty price tag. To offer the players (not draft picks) that OP listed however are comical. They’re giving sales bin for shiny new item type of trade that the smooth talking salesman is trying to push to the old woman. It’s just not going work with that. It’s going to have to be a much better prospect to start if it’s futures.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It’s just that it’s not some talk, he does one good thing and is talked about like the next savior of the roster. Ryan Poehling, Rafael Harvey-Pinard and even elite goal scoring winger from Toronto Nick Robertson for example. Do one good thing and we hear about them at nauseum until they fizzle out into nothingness and become bottom 6 players or lower. If he’s at best going to be a bottom 6 center, those guys are a dime a dozen at this point and can be kept on the cheap.

You are correct that Dobson will cost too much because of age, RFA status and recent 70pt season he’ll command a hefty price tag. To offer the players (not draft picks) that OP listed however are comical. They’re giving sales bin for shiny new item type of trade that the smooth talking salesman is trying to push to the old woman. It’s just not going work with that. It’s going to have to be a much better prospect to start if it’s futures.

Overrating our past prospects does not apply to our current group. Yes, in the past our prospect pool was thin and we overrated them. Other fan bases do this too but you fail to see it. Today, we are more humble with our expectations due to a deeper pool. I see this trend with pretty much every single NHL team and
their fans.

Beck is a B+ type trending well and projects to be a 3C (if he reaches his ceiling). I bet you think we think it's automatic. Not really what is happening here with our overall herd. At the end of the day, Beck is probably similar to Poehling with upside (Draft +1, +2), but that doesn't really mean Beck ends up on the same development path. Beck could underperform or overperform to what Poehling did.

 

[miscs75]

Overrating our past prospects does not apply to our current group. Yes, in the past our prospect pool was thin and we overrated them. Other fan bases do this too but you fail to see it.

Today, we are more humble with our expectations due to a deeper pool. I see this trend with pretty much every single NHL team and their fans.

Just look at trade offers by fans. We saw the same junk from Minnesota fans with Brock Nelson offers. Here’s our AHL defensemen who don’t produce anything at even the AHL because Brock is a UFA over the summer. To say that Montreal fans who are historically known for overrate/overhype prospects have changed is a an interesting one. Almost like trying to get Miller to the Rags while giving up nothing of value for him pushing the age excuse.

 

[saintunspecified]

if the isles and Dobber are too far apart on an extension I'd just move him at the draft

maybe get a nice offer from SJS or ANA

This. There's no point in dealing Dobson unless it's to a team who is willing to accelerate their rebuild in such a way that NYI get the guy they're looking for in the draft. Otherwise, NYI have all the time in the world.

 

[dgibb10]

Unless he asks out or refuses to resign, there is no realistic price to get him.

If that scenario does occur, the price for him will not be nearly as much as people expect.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Just look at trade offers by fans. We saw the same junk from Minnesota fans with Brock Nelson offers. Here’s our AHL defensemen who don’t produce anything at even the AHL because Brock is a UFA over the summer. To say that Montreal fans who are historically known for overrate/overhype prospects have changed is a an interesting one. Almost like trying to get Miller to the Rags while giving up nothing of value for him pushing the age excuse.

It happens on these boards all the time. What we should be focusing on is a yes or no reply (with some level of respect). Do you like the offer or not? What I find stupid is not liking the offer and then proceeding to throw prospects under the bus and the fans base at the same time. This becomes a distraction IMO. If you are pretending to act like your team's GM, we should be acting like them and I very much doubt they act the way fans do on these boards with prospect trash talk. GM's usually give a quick reply... we are not after that type of return.

I very much doubt the Habs are going to offer what the Islanders want in return for Dobson. We are not after a 1/1 trade. We are trying to use some of our futures to improve the team now. Those are usually circumstantial type trades and I don't see this happening with Dobson.

Every fan is on a different level with knowledge.

 

[Natey]

Beck, Mailloux and 2 1sts for the position we're going to be strongest in? Nah, I'm good bro. Let Hughes cook cause you just poisoned everyone who came to the restaurant for dinner.

 

[miscs75]

It happens on these boards all the time. What we should be focusing on is a yes or no reply (with some level of respect). Do you like the offer or not? What I find stupid is not liking the offer and then proceeding to throw prospects under the bus and the fans base at the same time. This becomes a distraction IMO.

I very much doubt the Habs are going to offer what the Islanders want in return for Dobson. We are not after a 1/1 trade. We are trying to use some of our futures to improve the team now. Those are usually circumstantial type trades and I don't see this happening with Dobson.

The offer was a resounding NO from the Isles side unless the offer was too good to be true. The pieces from OP? Nothing outside of the 1sts is of interest/use for the Isles, the other offer of Matheson and 1sts is pointless too because of Matheson’s cap hit and term. It doesn’t have to be a 1:1 offer but it also shouldn’t include roster fillers and mid level prospects for a player like Dobson (or someone of similar production/age/contract flexibility). It just screams let us take him off your hands for a bunch of leftovers and we owe you one.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The offer was a resounding NO from the Isles side unless the offer was too good to be true. The pieces from OP? Nothing outside of the 1sts is of interest/use for the Isles, the other offer of Matheson and 1sts is pointless too because of Matheson’s cap hit and term. It doesn’t have to be a 1:1 offer but it also shouldn’t include roster fillers and mid level prospects for a player like Dobson (or someone of similar production/age/contract flexibility). It just screams let us take him off your hands for a bunch of leftovers and we owe you one.

I can respect a no reply. I don't respect a no reply and then trash talk about those pieces offered. I think we all can do better in this area. I think you got my point.

This Habs fan won't even offer anything for Dobson. Cost is too high to acquire and I don't get a good vibe on what he will ask for on his next contract either.

 

[My3Sons]

It happens on these boards all the time. What we should be focusing on is a yes or no reply (with some level of respect). Do you like the offer or not? What I find stupid is not liking the offer and then proceeding to throw prospects under the bus and the fans base at the same time. This becomes a distraction IMO. If you are pretending to act like your team's GM, we should be acting like them and I very much doubt they act the way fans do on these boards with prospect trash talk. GM's usually give a quick reply... we are not after that type of return.

I very much doubt the Habs are going to offer what the Islanders want in return for Dobson. We are not after a 1/1 trade. We are trying to use some of our futures to improve the team now. Those are usually circumstantial type trades and I don't see this happening with Dobson.

Every fan is on a different level with knowledge.

There are numerous posts that are really talking past each other. One poster asks if a player has a certain value. In round numbers let’s say that value is 1 to 10. Suppose the player is an 8. If you pile up some assets worth 2 or 3 you can get to 8. In the abstract sure the values are equal. The fans of thr targeted team respond that they don’t want two 3s and a 2 even if you throw in an extra 1. I think generally the fans of thr target player team are correct as quantity over quality trades only happen for distressed assets. Right now Dobson does not appear to be distressed. I think there needs to be some common language on this issue as you see lots of these value posts descend into name calling when they are really two different discussions.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There are numerous posts that are really talking past each other. One poster asks if a player has a certain value. In round numbers let’s say that value is 1 to 10. Suppose the player is an 8. If you pile up some assets worth 2 or 3 you can get to 8. In the abstract sure the values are equal. The fans of thr targeted team respond that they don’t want two 3s and a 2 even if you throw in an extra 1. I think generally the fans of thr target player team are correct as quantity over quality trades only happen for distressed assets. Right now Dobson does not appear to be distressed. I think there needs to be some common language on this issue as you see lots of these value posts descend into name calling when they are really two different discussions.

Yeah, it can be messy with context and things spin for sure. It is an open chat forum where anybody can jump into a conversation at any given time and not really catch the trail of conversation that was going on. I see this happen a lot too.

What's more common? 1/1 or 2/1 trades or player for futures base? IMO, Hockey trades are more rare than the futures return type trades. Why? Because most teams don't trade an asset like Dobson at his age. If the Islanders do trade Dobson, they are likely after someone equal in age and potential and proven in the NHL. What is required here is a team that has a surplus of assets in another area and needs a RD. What team stands out? Nothing comes to my mind at the moment.

If the Islanders trade their young top RD, what are they looking for? A LD or C and someone close in age and potential?

 

[My3Sons]

Yeah, it can be messy with context and things spin for sure. It is an open chat forum where anybody can jump into a conversation at any given time and not really catch the trail of conversation that was going on. I see this happen a lot too.

What's more common? 1/1 or 2/1 trades or player for futures base? IMO, Hockey trades are more rare than the futures return type trades. Why? Because most teams don't trade an asset like Dobson at his age. If the Islanders do trade Dobson, they are likely after someone equal in age and potential and proven in the NHL. What is required here is a team that has a surplus of assets in another area and needs a RD. What team stands out? Nothing comes to my mind at the moment.

If the Islanders trade their young top RD, what are they looking for? A LD or C and someone close in age and potential?

I don’t pretend to have any insight into what the Islanders would or should ask for Dobson. I don’t watch enough of their games to have a feel for that. I will say I’ve seen some Isles posters knock him for being a bit soft and defensively iffy at times but that’s a small minority of posts. I’d think the Isles need to add a bit more youth up front given that guys like Lee and Nelson and Palmieri are aging or have expiring deals. Those guys get traded for some futures presumably. Of course opening their cap space makes it easy to keep Dobson around and what team woukd actually offer an equal forward for him in the real world?

There’s also the rebuilding effect. When a struggling team has its young players start to turn the corner and score the gas think the team is ready to move forward but often times it needs to take a step back and retool a bit to balance the free wheeling with some steady defense and physical play. Just adding more and more offense isn’t realistic and not necessarily what they actually need to win over thr long haul. Montreal could use a second center in my view but I don’t think they need another offensive defender. Hutson is going to get paid this summer and any additional offensive defender should really be less expensive. Dobson to me would be a costly add for Montreal both in terms of assets and cap. If I’m Montreal I try to find the best partner for Hutson. To me that’s not Dobson.

 

[Parliament]

Habs are better off keeping Matheson at RD with Hutson while we let Reinbacher develop and search for someone like Nemec instead (trade).

I'm a big fan of Dobson but I like what Matheson provides at RD. Dobson stands to improve on the D side but today, he's not that much better than Matheson in the D zone. Go check the corsi, points, hits, blocks, giveaways, and takeaways.

Some Habs fans are too guilty of overlooking what Matheson is providing us. They want to trade everything that is older than Suzuki.

That's fair - and in some ways I agree. If you didn't have Hutson (or he wasn't playing as well as he has been) then I'd be less agreeable, but given how much (I assume) Dobson would cost in a trade, MTL doesn't seem like a perfect fit - but definitely not a bad fit.

That being said my point was more about Dobson's value - not necessarily whether MTL would be smart to pay for him. Although I'll say MTL would be a great landing spot for Dobson - he fits their teams build age/skill wise, both now and in the future, and if you broke Hutson / Dobson up (aside from on the PP1) then that would be very difficult to play against.

 

[CTHabsfan]

View attachment 964120

Mike Matheson, Owen Beck, Joshua Roy, Oliver Kapanen, Logan Mailloux, Adam Engstrom, Habs 1st 2025, Calgary 1st 2025, any of the Habs 2nd-4th round picks this year (we have 7 of them) and Habs 2026 1st = a big pile of shit?

Somebody likes to exaggerate!

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Mike Matheson, Owen Beck, Joshua Roy, Oliver Kapanen, Logan Mailloux, Adam Engstrom, Habs 1st 2025, Calgary 1st 2025, any of the Habs 2nd-4th round picks this year (we have 7 of them) and Habs 2026 1st = a big pile of shit?

Somebody likes to exaggerate!

Not anything to persuade islanders to move Dobson.

So yes a big pile of shit


Sorry you had to find out this way