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Do you want a new GM?

Do you want a new GM?


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Verbeek is not going to get fired. Verbeek is working his way to the results we had in the teens with a coach that won’t lose game sevens.

The Samuelis want PV to spend money, but spend it wisely. Moving an ongoing $6m hit off the books helps. It is ongoing because the minimum qualifying offer has to match the current contract.

If Zegras had taken less, he might still be here, probably not, but if it was enough of a value there might have been a chance.

And Zegras may have wanted to go where he could be a center. For all we know it may have been mutual to go to Philly for that opportunity.

Verbeek moved Thrun to San Jose because that was where he wanted to go.

John
 
The Z trade is the biggest swing that Verbeek has taken since the rebuild. How he has shaped the roster with trades (present and future) has been in the over-positives. The next 2 years are the make-or-break for PV imo and we will noticed the fruition. I would rather have a GM taking swings and being "risky" to get us to a point where we can compete on the regular.

It seems that there are a couple arguments for/against the Z trade:

- Could of gotten more. Aight, lets say we got a 1st round pick for Z instead of this package (solid bottom 6er +2nd +4th). What does that look like? 20th-30th? over all the Z? I would of liked to package Z + a pick of our own for someone, but maybe the market doesn't allow for us to do that since a lot more teams are trying to compete. Why would someone else want to give up the "best" player as a GAMBLE. No one knows what Z is, and based on history his reputation is a defensive liability who can MAYBE play center, sub-par winger, injury prone, with a dynamic offensive mind.

- Let him play under Q and see what we have. There are 2 possible outcomes:
First - He doesn't develop/play well in our system/still absent defensively.
Second - He finds a place on our roster as an offensive winger; demands 7-8m once the contract is up

If the first scenario happens we have created a problem. We are losing games because of the roster composition. Instead of having a player who is responsible defensively and has a defined role, we now have a player who is "figuring it out". Where does that leave us? Remember how invisible Zegras is when he is not producing. We might lose out on 8-15 points because we have a player that NEEDS to be playing on the 1st/2nd line to develop.

2nd scenario - Let's say he regains form and hits 65 points next season. Great! He's putting in the points. Now let's look at the future a little bit. The Ducks are looking to be a fast team; Z does NOT fit that mold. He is not strong enough to win board battles and not get knocked off the puck. Now we have a player who needs to puck to be effective but doesn't have body to gain/retain control. Where does he fit in a CONTENDING team's line up?

I will say if he does put up 65-75 points as a 2nd liner this looks horrendous and most teams would be willing to ignore the defensive/control issues. If he is putting up 75-80 points as a first liner with Michkov I will be VERY curious to see how many they are letting in.

Overall, let PV cook and give him the rope to continue transforming this team into a new era. We NEEDED change in some form. I am disappointed that Z doesn't fit into our future. He was the bright spot on our roster for many seasons,
 
If the Z trade was a fireable offence, Ownership would have never let it happen; instead they gave their blessing and the deal was done. Verbeek is working to shape the roster how he and his staff want it to be. There are some risks, there are some questionable moves, signings and hirings. At the end of the day, you cant make an omelette without a few broken eggs.

That being said, with some of the moves and hirings hes made, hes definitely putting himself into the hot seat. If this team doesnt make the playoffs this year, if they regress, you should start to hear rumblings of a GM move.
 
i'm unsatisfied for life
it's a principle. so YES

that said, i think verbeek's job has been good so far.
i mean
i want to believe.

FIRE VERBEEK anyway
 
The Z trade is the biggest swing that Verbeek has taken since the rebuild. How he has shaped the roster with trades (present and future) has been in the over-positives. The next 2 years are the make-or-break for PV imo and we will noticed the fruition. I would rather have a GM taking swings and being "risky" to get us to a point where we can compete on the regular.

It seems that there are a couple arguments for/against the Z trade:

- Could of gotten more. Aight, lets say we got a 1st round pick for Z instead of this package (solid bottom 6er +2nd +4th). What does that look like? 20th-30th? over all the Z? I would of liked to package Z + a pick of our own for someone, but maybe the market doesn't allow for us to do that since a lot more teams are trying to compete. Why would someone else want to give up the "best" player as a GAMBLE. No one knows what Z is, and based on history his reputation is a defensive liability who can MAYBE play center, sub-par winger, injury prone, with a dynamic offensive mind.

- Let him play under Q and see what we have. There are 2 possible outcomes:
First - He doesn't develop/play well in our system/still absent defensively.
Second - He finds a place on our roster as an offensive winger; demands 7-8m once the contract is up

If the first scenario happens we have created a problem. We are losing games because of the roster composition. Instead of having a player who is responsible defensively and has a defined role, we now have a player who is "figuring it out". Where does that leave us? Remember how invisible Zegras is when he is not producing. We might lose out on 8-15 points because we have a player that NEEDS to be playing on the 1st/2nd line to develop.

2nd scenario - Let's say he regains form and hits 65 points next season. Great! He's putting in the points. Now let's look at the future a little bit. The Ducks are looking to be a fast team; Z does NOT fit that mold. He is not strong enough to win board battles and not get knocked off the puck. Now we have a player who needs to puck to be effective but doesn't have body to gain/retain control. Where does he fit in a CONTENDING team's line up?

I will say if he does put up 65-75 points as a 2nd liner this looks horrendous and most teams would be willing to ignore the defensive/control issues. If he is putting up 75-80 points as a first liner with Michkov I will be VERY curious to see how many they are letting in.

Overall, let PV cook and give him the rope to continue transforming this team into a new era. We NEEDED change in some form. I am disappointed that Z doesn't fit into our future. He was the bright spot on our roster for many seasons,
Ding ding ding 🛎️ let the beeker cook fellas 🫡
 
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I'm generally of the mind that with the obvious exclusion of something like off-ice abuse, a singular "fireable offense" should be a nearly unattainably high bar. There's precious few moves a GM could make which couldn't possibly fit into a broader plan, and also there's precious few GMs (even the best) who've never made the occasional horrible move. You have to judge the body of work.
I do have some issues with Verbeek's body of work, but I'd still call it overall positive.

The Zegras trade is a poor mark right now, and I'd argue it's objectively poor asset management at best. But poor asset management happens. Free agency hasn't even started, and if we're looking more at trades than UFAs, we probably won't have full context to judge the move until camp (at least).

Honestly I think it's more of an exacerbating incident. If the rest of Verbeek's plan works out, it's going to have obviously been a brilliant, bold move that showed what he was capable of. If the rest of Verbeek's plan falls through, it's going to have obviously been the moment he should've been stopped before he ruined everything. It's going to be a huge data point on Verbeek's legacy one way or the other, but it's not a data point you can draw conclusions from by itself.
 
Unfortunately I don't think he's committed a fire-able offence.

I do think it all comes down to this season though. Not only does he have to hit big on whoever he can sign, he has to have gambled correctly on Q and succeed in making the playoffs.

A well-deserved short leash...but there's still some give in that leash.
 
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Samuelis will sack him at the end of the year if he spends a bunch of money and the team can't get 95ish points.

I dont think points matter, as long as they get into the playoffs. Even if they just come up a couple of points short but are in the mix, he *might* be safe.

He has to execute this offseason. Making the Zegras trade will be fine as long as he can get the players he wants/needs and they continue to progress. Regression on the other hand, I dont believe will be tolerated.
 
Say he does get fired after striking out in this offseason and they finish with 85 points.
What different direction would a new GM do ? Would that GM simply just rebuild the rebuild by tanking ?
I mean that is what Buffalo has done with rebuilding their rebuilds.
 
Verbeek is not on the hot seat or even close to it. Remember this is an ownership that has never fired a general manager.

Its been a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time since this Org has been in this current situation. Burke and Murray virtually had playoff teams that could compete their entire tenures.
 
Say he does get fired after striking out in this offseason and they finish with 85 points.
What different direction would a new GM do ? Would that GM simply just rebuild the rebuild by tanking ?
I mean that is what Buffalo has done with rebuilding their rebuilds.

No. It wouldnt be a full rebuild again. It really depends on a lot of factors. Maybe fire Q if that went bad, probably something similar to this offseason with some bold moves and tinkering to find the right fit. But a full rebuild again wouldnt happen
 
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Verbeek is not on the hot seat or even close to it. Remember this is an ownership that has never fired a general manager.

Not sure I agree. The fact that Samueli went out and made as demonstrative a public statement as he did tells me that there's a certain threshold that he expects to reach, even if it isn't the playoffs.

If this team is in the low-80s in points again this year? Yeah, he may very well be out of a job. I still think he has two years to figure it out.
 
Its been a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time since this Org has been in this current situation. Burke and Murray virtually had playoff teams that could compete their entire tenures.
While very true, I’m skeptical they’d pop their cherry without giving Verbeek 5 full years. If things really went south, maybe, but I don’t think the seat really gets hot until maybe next summer.
 
While very true, I’m skeptical they’d pop their cherry without giving Verbeek 5 full years. If things really went south, maybe, but I don’t think the seat really gets hot until maybe next summer.

Verbeek has taken some swings and moved out a lot of guys that had been with the team for years, and moving a fan favorite, and hiring a coach that got a lot of scrutiny. If they regress, that might be too much to overcome.

Do I think its 100% that he would be fired? No. But I would say more likely than not, he would get canned. Maybe they give him 1 final year to try and bounce back, but the owners are going to want ROI and if hes not giving it to them, the business side may win out.
 
Not sure I agree. The fact that Samueli went out and made as demonstrative a public statement as he did tells me that there's a certain threshold that he expects to reach, even if it isn't the playoffs.

If this team is in the low-80s in points again this year? Yeah, he may very well be out of a job. I still think he has two years to figure it out.
If he has still two years before the team needs to be truly successful i would consider that not close to being on the hot seat
 
If they fire Verbeek, who’s out there?

Maybe Briere will get fired and we could get him. He could bring back Zegras and everyone would be happy watching exciting meaningless games.

John
 
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