Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

[socko]

Larkin and Hyman were a great fit in college. It would get Hyman off of Matthews and Tavares lines where he does more harm than good and create a new shutdown line. Kadri would have to move to the wing.

 

[Maplebeasts]

There is no reason to panic. Apparently if media speculation was correct, Nylander originally wanted 8+ and got payed like his comparables adjusted for cap inflation in the end. Until Dubas has some kind of track record it isn't wise to worry about it.

 

[Menzinger]

Yes you clearly do. You dislike Dubas and it tells you something you like to hear. No one but Kypreos has claimed this.

And the idea that Kypreos has a shred of credibility is laughable.

 

[luvdahattymatty]

Gramps here. I trust Dubas because Shanny hired him. His heart must be in the right place and I'm confident he is looking after the teams best interests. If he overpays Willy, Matty and Mitch by 1M each more in AAV than he should oh well. That in my mind is not a big deal. The bigger issue is getting all 3 signed. Thats my take.

 

[LeafFever]

We hired hockey's version of Theo Epstein. Don't worry.

 

[Gallagbi]

ask yourself this: who does Larkin play with? Now imagine him on Mathews wing..........nuff said.

There are also benefits to being the primary offensive option like he is compared to having 3 offensive lines and seeing 2nd PP usage.

It's awesome to play with a guy like Matthews. It's also great to get the puck in every scoring opportunity. Larkin gets one of those, Nylander gets the other. Neither gets both.

 

[LeafFever]

Nylander deserved more than Larkin.

 

[Menzinger]

There are also benefits to being the primary offensive option like he is compared to having 3 offensive lines and seeing 2nd PP usage.

It's awesome to play with a guy like Matthews. It's also great to get the puck in every scoring opportunity. Larkin gets one of those, Nylander gets the other. Neither gets both.

Larkin also got more average icetime.

Nylander had an overwhelmingly stronger negotiation position than Larkin. It’s just silly for anyone to suggest otherwise

 

[LeafFever]

People keep missing the fact Nylander had 2 61 point seasons with less TOI. Larkin went from 45-63. In fact Pastrynak went from 30's to 70.
Those 2 61 point seasons are a big reason Nylander got paid.

 

[rent free]

I don't but he won't be put in an easy situation however.

 

[hector morrison]

I had my concerns with him being so green. But I wouldn't say I have a bias towards disliking him. Don't like what he did with our backup situation....the willy hing....trading Leivo for a water bottle.....his actions have made me question him.

Explain your different view then. I don't see how anyone can spin that situation as good.

Basically,I trust Shanny. Shanny likes what Dubas brings to the table. He won in the Sault,he won with the Marlies. He is a new breed so to speak,so for sure the jury is still out on him. McBackup was my preference as well,but only for this year,so I get where Dubas may be thinking long term on the goalie front. Sparky has been better than I thought he would...wouldn't you agree? Willy,well again,not being privy to the pertinent details,is really difficult for me to blame Dubas. I lean towards the greed factor of the Willy camp. In the end,he is signed,he is here and will be for quite a few years,hopefully producing better than he is presently. Leivo...could of just been doing Josh a favor,Babs had no plans for Josh. You are right to question him,I do as well,but some of the decisions that need to be made will always bring debate.

 

[The CyNick]

So all GMs have failed is what you are saying? Because no RFA is signing.

No but if they let their RFAs miss a good portion of the year and it in turn makes them ineffective and they don't sign a team friendly deal THEN it will be a failure.

 

[The CyNick]

Maybe if Lou didnt fight these guys over their signing bonuses, they'd be more inclined to have an easy negotiation with the team now. No doubt about it, Lou set a negative tone with these guys and the Leafs will have to pay for it.

Lou had no problem signing our guys to team friendly deals. He's also a Stanley Cup winner and a first place GM right now. After tonight there's a good chance were a wild card team. Ouch.

 

[The CyNick]

So if he deserves zero credit, what GMs deserve credit for UFA signings? Because he had to do a hell of a lot more work. Sounds like he filmed a god damn Hollywood commercial.

Yeah he was out late night filming spots for it.

JT was essentially a Scientology member. He was brainwashed by a flashy video.

 

[Liminality]

Lou had no problem signing our guys to team friendly deals. He's also a Stanley Cup winner and a first place GM right now. After tonight there's a good chance were a wild card team. Ouch.

Marleau and Zaitsev were team friendly deals? Also the Isles are tied with the Leafs for the first time this season and you bring up the standings. Did you think the same when the Leafs were ahead?

 

[The CyNick]

Marleau and Zaitsev were team friendly deals? Also the Isles are tied with the Leafs for the first time this season and you bring up the standings. Did you think the same when the Leafs were ahead?

Isles were expected to be a bottom feeder. Lou didn't let that happen. Brought in a goalie and some real hard working pros.

 

[PromisedLand]

Nylander deserved more than Larkin.

 

[Gallagbi]

Isles were expected to be a bottom feeder. Lou didn't let that happen. Brought in a goalie and some real hard working pros.

Should he have though? It's nice the Islanders are doing well, do we think that's a team built for a cup or long term success?

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

Should he have though? It's nice the Islanders are doing well, do we think that's a team built for a cup or long term success?

No he shouldn’t have. Why would he try and field a competitive team? Shouldve tried to tank before the season even started. What was he thinking!?!?!?

 

[AreBe]

We hired hockey's version of Theo Epstein. Don't worry.

We got a stats geek technocrat as a GM, thank goodness!
Dubas knows how to do some Advanced Analytics/$ /Cap = what we are willing to pay a player, and he sees this clearly, his hockey vision is not blurry
Dubas is a sharp and we are lucky to have him - solid brain, not of any woodness
Dubas will not listen to the demands of the fans who want to turn the team into some kind of hockey slurry
Remember it is a long- term plan too, so we don't want to unload all the kids either, we want long term joy with some fullness.

 

[DarkKnight]

The caveat to Nylander's camp getting such a great deal was that at least it was tradeable given the structure. Our inability to take advantage of the cap savings with the late holdout, while hurting our bottomline, also meant a lot of salary is already paid come July 1st next year. We failed to capture the salary cap savings, but at least a prospective suitor would now that the Leafs had paid a ton up front, real dollars very attractive. However, one starts to now wonder if this contract is attractive? I'm actually envisioning a Kessel scenario where we would have to retain some salary to get a decent return. Who the hell gives real quality back for this "elite" talent at this long term cap hit? Deal looks worse and worse each day imo.

 

[Mess]

The caveat to Nylander's camp getting such a great deal was that at least it was tradeable given the structure. Our inability to take advantage of the cap savings with the late holdout, while hurting our bottomline, also meant a lot of salary is already paid come July 1st next year. We failed to capture the salary cap savings, but at least a prospective suitor would now that the Leafs had paid a ton up front, real dollars very attractive. However, one starts to now wonder if this contract is attractive? I'm actually envisioning a Kessel scenario where we would have to retain some salary to get a decent return. Who the hell gives real quality back for this "elite" talent at this long term cap hit? Deal looks worse and worse each day imo.

If your GM creates a contract that makes trading it in the future an advantage to the organization thus making it a positive behind the signing, but then promises he doesn't plan on trading him essentially giving the player a verbal NTC, then that simply overlaps and then defeats the first part.

If Willy's goal was not to be traded and wanted to stay a Leaf long-term than it was in his interest to have a contract that makes it more difficult and less appetizing to deal. That is leverage for the GM to use in his contract position.. However not only did Willy get Dubas to agree to massive frontloaded/ bonus laden deal, he then got him to admit publicly he wouldn't trade him. Then it took to the 11th hour on the last day to even get this lopsided contract in Nylander's advantage competed.

Its things exactly like that, that do make one question the negotiating abilities and strategies of the GM and rightfully so. Not going to find many hockey knowledgeable people that believe Dubas didn't get schooled hard in this deal by a clever player agent to believe suddenly that things are going to be different with Auston and Mitch coming up.

In fact Dubas caving to Nylander has now set a bad precedence that when push comes to shove he will do the same for AM and MM and both their agents know that.

 

[LeafFever]

If your GM creates a contract that makes trading it in the future an advantage to the organization making it a positive behind the signing, but then promises he doesn't plan on trading him essentially giving the player a verbal NTC, then that simply overlaps and then defeats the first part.

If Willy's goal was not to be traded and wanted to stay a Leaf long-term than it was in his interest to have a contract that makes it more difficult and less appetizing to deal. That is leverage for the GM to use in his contract position.. However not only did Willy get Dubas to agree to massive frontloaded/ bonus laden deal, he then got him to admit publicly he wouldn't trade him. Then it took to the 11th hour on the last day to even get this lopsided contract in Nylander's advantage competed.

Its things exactly like that, that do make one question the negotiating abilities and strategies of the GM and rightfully so. Not going to find many hockey knowledgeable people that believe Dubas didn't get schooled hard in this deal by a clever player agent to believe suddenly that things are going to be different with Auston and Mitch coming up.

In fact Dubas caving to Nylander has now set a bad precedence that when push comes to shove he will do the same for AM and MM and both their agents know that.

Dubas gave him what he was worth. Why are people still disputing this?

 

[DarkKnight]

Dubas gave him what he was worth. Why are people still disputing this?

Take a break Michael, enjoy the evening.

 

[The CyNick]

Should he have though? It's nice the Islanders are doing well, do we think that's a team built for a cup or long term success?

They are ahead of us in the standings. Why would they tank?

Lou took chicken you know what and made a tasty chicken salad.

Our guy apparently didn't write down the recipe for success before Lou left.