Do You Think The Oilers Have Done Enough To Help McDrai Win The Cup?

[nbwingsfan]

Let’s change the wording then. Do you think Andrew Copp is an average 2nd line player? Tarasenko?

And you just disproved yourself by pointing out Skinner was scratched. 2nd line players don’t get scratched for performance. Hes been terrible

@PainForShane

 

[PainForShane]

Let’s change the wording then. Do you think Andrew Copp is an average 2nd line player? Tarasenko?

And you just disproved yourself by pointing out Skinner was scratched. 2nd line players don’t get scratched for performance. Hes been terrible

@PainForShane

Nah man. "Mario Lemieux was at least average... oh uhh... actually he's great! It's just a difference in wording." That's what you just did, no one would do that. The words 'at least average' and the word 'great' generally are used to refer to completely different tiers of player.

Meanwhile you still don't understand the points I've made, the main one was fully explained a couple of posts up. At this point I think the misunderstanding is probably intentional on your end, but I'm not 100% sure.

On the off chance it's not... well, the main claim I've made (and have been making this whole time), is that Edmonton is deep re: forwards. One example of this relates to how they handled Jeff Skinner. More specifically, if you have an underperforming 30 goal player like Jeff Skinner, if you have enough good forwards, you don't need to force ice time on him, you can even healthy scratch him without completely decimating your ability to score goals. Prior to the season, I'm sure Jeff Skinner was projected as a probable top 6, but Skinner's ice time has been low since November or so, Podkolzin's not terrible and has basically taken his spot. That's an example of depth, not the other way around.

***

Re: Andrew Copp, not that this to do with anything, but his value depends on deployment. Daily Faceoff shows him this morning skating between Kane and Debrincat, that makes sense to me, have a defensively good center between two gifted offensive guys, maybe they can cheat a little on offense but either way they can just focus on scoring. A lot of lines are built this way (Steve Rucchin long term between Kariya and Selanne for instance), the idea makes sense. And Copp's salary is around 5.5m (incl a modified no trade) which is about standard for a decent 2nd liner and obviously way too much for a player who's generally considered to be bottom six. Which Copp definitely is not.

And idk how you feel about JFresh (I don't have a strong opinion), but as of 2022 JFresh liked Copp as a top 6 guy. All that together, I think Copp is probably about an average second liner depending how he's used.

 

[JSlick]

it f***ing amazes me how often they f***ing a baffling GM hire back to back to back to back

 

[nbwingsfan]

Nah man. "Mario Lemieux was at least average... oh uhh... actually he's great! It's just a difference in wording." That's what you just did, no one would do that. The words 'at least average' and the word 'great' generally are used to refer to completely different tiers of player.

Meanwhile you still don't understand the points I've made, the main one was fully explained a couple of posts up. At this point I think the misunderstanding is probably intentional on your end, but I'm not 100% sure.

On the off chance it's not... well, the main claim I've made (and have been making this whole time), is that Edmonton is deep re: forwards. One example of this relates to how they handled Jeff Skinner. More specifically, if you have an underperforming 30 goal player like Jeff Skinner, if you have enough good forwards, you don't need to force ice time on him, you can even healthy scratch him without completely decimating your ability to score goals. Prior to the season, I'm sure Jeff Skinner was projected as a probable top 6, but Skinner's ice time has been low since November or so, Podkolzin's not terrible and has basically taken his spot. That's an example of depth, not the other way around.

***

Re: Andrew Copp, not that this to do with anything, but his value depends on deployment. Daily Faceoff shows him this morning skating between Kane and Debrincat, that makes sense to me, have a defensively good center between two gifted offensive guys, maybe they can cheat a little on offense but either way they can just focus on scoring. A lot of lines are built this way (Steve Rucchin long term between Kariya and Selanne for instance), the idea makes sense. And Copp's salary is around 5.5m (incl a modified no trade) which is about standard for a decent 2nd liner and obviously way too much for a player who's generally considered to be bottom six. Which Copp definitely is not.

And idk how you feel about JFresh (I don't have a strong opinion), but as of 2022 JFresh liked Copp as a top 6 guy. All that together, I think Copp is probably about an average second liner depending how he's used.

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Good luck finding one, and I mean even one single Wings fan who think Copp is a top 6 forward

You just lost any and all credibility with that one sentence.

You sentence also doesn’t even make sense. As early as 2022, Jonathan Huberdeau was arguably a top 10 forward in the NHL. Why is he now considerd the worst contract in the NHL?

Truly a baffling argument that what someone has done in the past has any kind of bearing on what they’re doing today

 

[PainForShane]

Good luck finding one, and I mean even one single Wings fan who think Copp is a top 6 forward

You just lost any and all credibility with that one sentence.

You sentence also doesn’t even make sense. As early as 2022, Jonathan Huberdeau was arguably a top 10 forward in the NHL. Why is he now considerd the worst contract in the NHL?

Truly a baffling argument that what someone has done in the past has any kind of bearing on what they’re doing today

You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about, despite me repeatedly presenting my claim / supporting arguments in different ways.

Meanwhile, Copp is literally (and obviously) in your top 6, he's 5th on your team in average 5v5 ice time (among forwards). And as of the most recent lines, he'll start next game playing alongside Cat and Kane, just like I said. Daily Faceoff screenshot below (taken just now).

I regret deciding to engage with you man. This conversation has been a complete waste of time, for everyone.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Crosby + Malkin > McDavid + Draisaitl

Swap teams and Crosby never sniffs a Cup.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I wonder if I start this thread about Matthews how long would it last

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I think they've tried. Seems like whenever they bring in good players, they become less good when they put on the Oilers jersey. They really should have stopped trying to address the problem via veteran UFAs - letting Broberg and Holloway go was a mistake.

Ekholm and Hyman have been solid additions though.

 

[waitin425]

I think at some point, the McDrai have to do enough to carry their team to a cup.

 

[Coffey]

I think at some point, the McDrai have to do enough to carry their team to a cup.

Like win a Conn Smythe in a losing effort?

 

[waitin425]

Like win a Conn Smythe in a losing effort?

No....like win the Cup. All the greats have managed to do it. Yes - its a team sport - but at some point, the greats have to will their team to the Cup. Whether that is on the ice or in the locker room - the stars carry some of the responsibility for doing that.

 

[Coffey]

No....like win the Cup. All the greats have managed to do it. Yes - its a team sport - but at some point, the greats have to will their team to the Cup. Whether that is on the ice or in the locker room - the stars carry some of the responsibility for doing that.

Best player in the history of the sport couldn't will a team without 10 Hall of Famers.
Lot of luck involved.

 

[waitin425]

Best player in the history of the sport couldn't will a team without 10 Hall of Famers.
Lot of luck involved.

I appreciate McDavid....he is undeniably one of the greatest of all time...probably top 5....Im looking forward to rooting for him representing Canada.....but to me.....the Cup is what cements legacy.....he has to do it in my eyes....or run the risk of having an asterix beside his name. These are the moments that are etched in the annals of time.....

 

[Coffey]

I appreciate McDavid....he is undeniably one of the greatest of all time...probably top 5....Im looking forward to rooting for him representing Canada.....but to me.....the Cup is what cements legacy.....he has to do it in my eyes....or run the risk of having an asterix beside his name. These are the moments that are etched in the annals of time.....

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Yup that's fine.
I'm just saying, lots of luck involved.
Oilers won without Gretz, but Gretz was never able to win without them.

Bourque and Hasek were never able to win on their own until they got traded to powerhouses.

 

[waitin425]

Yup that's fine.
I'm just saying, lots of luck involved.
Oilers won without Gretz, but Gretz was never able to win without them.

Not sure luck is involved as much as you think. All of those superstars I listed -- plus more -- won the cup. If they all were lucky does that meet the definition of luck -- or is their a pattern or trait that they each possess?

 

[Coffey]

Not sure luck is involved as much as you think. All of those superstars I listed -- plus more -- won the cup. If they all were lucky does that meet the definition of luck -- or is their a pattern or trait that they each possess?

If the Oilers had decent general managers in the last decade, I'm sure they would have won the cup already.
If the Oilers had decent goaltending in the last decade, I'm sure they would have won a cup.

Lot of things have to go right. And it's easy for us to look at the players that did win a cup and go "Well they can do it, why can't Connor?" But take your eyes off of them and look at the great players that never won a cup, ie. Thornton, Iginla, etc.

He won a Conn Smythe last year, like.. What more can you ask him to do? Jump off the bench and slash Reinhart so he doesn't get the cup clinching goal?

 

[TropicOfNoReturn]

With this being McDavid's 10th year and the 10th year of McDrai, have the Oilers done enough in your opinion to help arguably the best duo in the league win the cup?

Isn't it supposed to be McDavid and Draisaitl helping the Oilers win a Cup?
Why would these two players be specifically deserving of winning a Cup, any more than any other player?

They're the ones getting paid extremely well to win for the Oilers and the city of Edmonton. Nobody owes them anything

 

[PainForShane]

If the Oilers had decent general managers in the last decade, I'm sure they would have won the cup already.
If the Oilers had decent goaltending in the last decade, I'm sure they would have won a cup.

Lot of things have to go right. And it's easy for us to look at the players that did win a cup and go "Well they can do it, why can't Connor?" But take your eyes off of them and look at the great players that never won a cup, ie. Thornton, Iginla, etc.

He won a Conn Smythe last year, like.. What more can you ask him to do? Jump off the bench and slash Reinhart so he doesn't get the cup clinching goal?

I personally would ask him to consistently generate offense / not go pointless in the most important game of his life. Especially because that game was decided by a single goal. Seems like not a crazy thing to ask especially because he's in his prime and can still be dominant at times (see game 5).

Still a great player, he fell short this time. Hope he does better in the next two or three years while the Oil are still very much within their cup window

 

[waitin425]

If the Oilers had decent general managers in the last decade, I'm sure they would have won the cup already.
If the Oilers had decent goaltending in the last decade, I'm sure they would have won a cup.

Lot of things have to go right. And it's easy for us to look at the players that did win a cup and go "Well they can do it, why can't Connor?" But take your eyes off of them and look at the great players that never won a cup, ie. Thornton, Iginla, etc.

He won a Conn Smythe last year, like.. What more can you ask him to do? Jump off the bench and slash Reinhart so he doesn't get the cup clinching goal?

There is a difference between Thornton and Iginla and the ones I listed.

 

[NVious]

Isn't it supposed to be McDavid and Draisaitl helping the Oilers win a Cup?
Why would these two players be specifically deserving of winning a Cup, any more than any other player?

They're the ones getting paid extremely well to win for the Oilers and the city of Edmonton. Nobody owes them anything

Yeah they need to step up and go 3ppg, 2ppg didn't work so it's on McDrai to step up their game.

 

[Coffey]

I personally would ask him to consistently generate offense / not go pointless in the most important game of his life.

Don't make me post my Crosby thread.

 

[PainForShane]

Don't make me post my Crosby thread.

I legitimately do not give a shit if you post your Crosby thread.

In the meantime McDavid didn't score a point in game 7 (was a non-factor for most of that time), and his team lost

 

[Coffey]

I legitimately do not give a shit if you post your Crosby thread

Yea well, people prop Crosby as this monster clutch player who is so much better than McDavid, but he has 1 goal in 3 SC finals playoffs and has been held pointless in 2 of his 3 SC clinching games.

 

[hangman005]

Yea well, people prop Crosby as this monster clutch player who is so much better than McDavid, but he has 1 goal in 3 SC finals playoffs and has been held pointless in 2 of his 3 SC clinching games.

I just call him a monster..... playing for a team like Pittsburgh. McDavid is also a monster.... playing for a team like Edmonton.

Ohhhh a twofer

 

[PainForShane]

Yea well, people prop Crosby as this monster clutch player who is so much better than McDavid, but he has 1 goal in 3 SC finals playoffs and has been held pointless in 2 of his 3 SC clinching games.

He also does other things, like 200 foot game, locker room leadership, helping make undrafted linemates into decent top 6 players etc.

No one cares about this Crosby obsession some of you McDavid fans seem to have. I'm sure Sid respects Connor, and I'm sure Connor respects Sid. I'm also sure most if not all hockey fans appreciate both players and realize we've been extremely fortunate to be able to watch them in their prime (if we've had that chance, which hopefully most of us have been able to do).