Do You Think The Oilers Have Done Enough To Help McDrai Win The Cup?

[DingerMcSlapshot]

Yup. Players need to take responsibility as well.

 

[daver]

Skinner wouldnt win a cup with the 80s oilers

He would have with the '09 Pens.

 

[VeteranPresence]

No. Stan Bowman is the latest to "try", and I use quotes because outside of two waiver claims and flipping a late pick for Vasily Podkolzin, he walked into the job having the best set of data possible- a team who had just been to Game 7 of the SCF- and decided doing nothing substantial to make the Oilers better was the best possible move.

Any of Dante Fabbro, Jonathan Kovacevic, Cam Fowler, or William Carrier would have helped the right side of a D that is made up of Evan Bouchard, Brett Kulak on his off-side, and Josh f***ing Brown. And any goalie would be an upgrade on Stu Skinner. Bowman though is content to warm the chair of his office while watching the two weaknesses everyone knows exist cost the team wins.

Unfortunately Bowman is just the latest has-been GM hire by Daryl Katz and his merry band of ex-Oiler stooges, so I expect nothing is going to change. We are firmly in our "Bill Wirtz" era and we all know what it took for the Hawks to get Rocky, so don't expect much out of this club until Harrison Katz takes over sometime in the 2040s.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

To me it’s not really about “have they done enough”, it’s “have they done enough of the right things?” Answer: not even close.

They spend to the cap, they make moves, but they’re constantly leaving holes and concerns unaddressed. I liked the Skinner and Arvidsson signings, but I’m an idiot. I shouldn’t be GM. And if you haven’t addressed major issues and have actually added new ones, ok, be smarter. Effort isn’t the issue, not spending on dumb shit is.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Truly spoken like someone who didn’t watch 1 second of that series. Reductive af.

Remind me of Skinner’s SV% on that series again? .833? Can’t believe some people have the audacity to cry “Oh yeah? Well if we had Demko *sniffs*” to which I retort “Well if the Oilers actually had a goaltender who didn’t fold like a cheap lawn tent in big games they would have swept”

I would expect any goalie's SV% to suffer when their #1C starts gliding through the slot in the final minute of a tied game instead of covering JT Miller or chasing the puck in the defensive zone.

They didn't start the game together, did you even watch it? Knoblauch put them together because the Oilers were down 3-0 early, and sure enough their line responded by scoring.

I didn't, but those are what we call empty points. Like good for McDavid he padded his stats after the team was down 5-1 but it had no impact on winning.

 

[SEALBound]

Well... I think they DID try to shop Kane this summer, but had no takers.

Perhaps. Tough to know how much it would take to get a team to take him. But if you have a team like the Avs who already have a decent LTIR, it's not the worst option to add more.

Disagree with you that shopping RNH to keep Broberg and Holloway was the way to go. Broberg and Holloway lost their value to the contending Oilers the moment they signed those offer sheets. As you say, you need young CHEAP talent pushing in and StLouis threw a wrench in that plan, self-imposed as it may have been.

They could have shopped RNH well before those offer sheets were signed though. They signed well into August. There was plenty of time to get your affairs in order to avoid those offer-sheets.

As for Drai sticking it to the Oilers at $14M, numbers don't really support that claim. Malkin's $8.7M, which was widely heralded as a steal at the time, would be $13.6M today. I think there is some degree of compensation for Drai being one of the biggest value contracts over the last 8 years... I suppose that's the price you pay to keep him happy. If McD signs for similar we'll be ok.

Those vet players we signed were done so because they were cheap and willing to take less to win... very similar to Kessel back in the day.

This is what I'm saying though. Sid and Malkin got their purse and then from 2010 through 2015, it was really tough to surround them with the depth needed to win. It was a "ask me how I know" statement not a "there's a difference".

Kessel had a long term contract when he was traded. He was one year into his 8 year deal at $8mil and Toronto retained $1.2mil. He didn't "sign for less". As I said, that was a fairly unique situation that doesn't come up all that often. But it goes with what I was saying, by 2015-2016, the cap went up enough for the Penguins to afford another high dollar, impact player. Tough to come up with a comparable this year but maybe Huberdeau? Konecny?

Little different than Skinner and Perry.

As for youth... I expect you'll see a few of Savoie, Akey, O'Reilly, Rodrigue and Philp make some impact over the next two seasons when the cap is tight... we need that.

If you project out to 2026-27, the cap situation doesn't seem too terrible. Cap is projected to be at least 97M by then: NHL Salary Cap Jump to $97 Million Will Save Several Teams

Oilers would be set up like this:

RNH ($5.1) McD ($16) Hyman ($5.5)
XXX ($5M) Drai ($14M) XXX ($3M)
Savoie ($1M ELC) XXX ($3M) XXX ($1M)
Janmark ($1.5M) Philp/O'Reilly ($1M ELC) XXX $1M

Ekholm ($4M) Bouchard ($9.5)
Nurse ($9.25) XXX ($4M)
XXX ($2M) XXX ($1M)

XXX ($5M)
Rodrigue ($1M ELC)

Extras: 2 x $1M

Dead Cap: Campbell $2.6M

TOTAL: 97.5

It's tight for that year, but loosens up thereafter as the cap continues to rise and there won't be anyone getting raises for a few years. Older guys like Hyman, Ekholm and RNH get replaced by similar priced guys or if still capable of contributing, resign for less than their current salaries.

Hoping for the best.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

It's a process though, who cares if they lose one game. Ultimately you want two dominant lines. Let them work through it. Them knowing they'll be put back together at the slightest hint of trouble is a crutch. Crosby and Malkin didn't play on the same line for like 15 years straight, no matter the score.

This is why those two are losers, they never are in a position where they struggle and have to overcome it.

 

[Frank Drebin]

He would have with the '09 Pens.

Fleury 2.61 / .908 24GP 10 games below .900, 3 games below .850%
Skinner 2.45/ . 901 23 GP 11 games below .900%, 6 games below .850%

Fleury was statistically better, and had a few less horrible games, but who is to say.

 

[Darren McCord]

Absolutely no shot.

Letang>Bouchard
Murray in his first 2 years>>>>>>>>Skinner
Fleury>>Skinner (as a whole)
Kessel>Kane/Hyman/RNH

If Kessel and Murray don't play out of their f***ing minds, we could live in a world where Sid and Geno had just one cup which goes to show you how important help is (the two best players alone can't do it, i.e Edmonton right now).

Nah Crosby and malkin dragged them to a cup in 2017.

The were number 1 and 2 in scoring.

The pens top defensemen that year was Brian dumoulin lol

 

[Jumptheshark]

Didn't we just have this thread

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Draisaitl has been dominating with his own line plenty this year, doesn't mean knoblauch can't put them together when the moment is right. He also plays them together coming out of a PK, 4 on 4 and in the last minute of play,. It's really quite effective, I suppose the geniuses at hfboards are better coaches then Knoblauch though, even though he has the best record in the league since taking over the team.

"When the moment is right" has been the same moments for every coach during McDavid's career with maybe the exception of Hitchcock

 

[daver]

So you compare that to Sid and Geno... they were lucky enough to have HoF Fleury and near HoF Letang from the start and managed only 1 cap during their ELC period.

In what world is a .908 sv% and 2.61 GAA HOF worthy? Skinner was .906 and 2.45 GAA this past playoffs.

"Near HOF" Letang was 6th on the Pens in ES TOI in the 2009 playoffs. He was a PP specialist at that point. Bouchard is considerably more impactful than Letang was at that age.

Crosby and McDavid are both generational talents that produce regardless, peak Malkin was at that level also, Draisaitl not so much.

 

[Soundwave]

He would have with the '09 Pens.

Not a chance in hell.

MAF was the best Penguins player in the Finals, specifically game 6 and 7 with Pittsburgh down 2-3 in the Finals and the Cup looking like it was going to Detroit, he shut the door with the series on the line with two outstanding games, Detroit scored 1 goal each in game 6 and 7 and that's all she wrote. If the NHL awarded a SCF Finals MVP like the NBA does, MAF would have won it.

Skinner doesn't have the ability to take over a series like that.

 

[daver]

Not a chance in hell.

MAF was the best Penguins player in the Finals, specifically game 6 and 7 with Pittsburgh down 2-3 in the Finals and the Cup looking like it was going to Detroit, he shut the door with two outstanding games, Detroit scored 1 goal each in game 6 and 7 and that's all she wrote. If the NHL awarded a SCF Finals MVP like the NBA does, MAF would have won it.

Skinner was no where close to that.

The 2009 Pens aren't down 3-0 to the Panthers to start the series so it's doubtful it's goes 7 games.

The larger point was Skinner was statistically as good as MAF in the '09 playoffs. The Panthers only needed to contain McDavid in the SCF as Draisaitl was not effective. Detroit threw everything they had to try to contain Crosby opening the door for Malkin.

You were be hard pressed to find a Cup winner that had a weaker supporting cast than the 2009 Pens.

 

[Soundwave]

The 2009 Pens aren't down 3-0 to the Panthers to start the series so it's doubtful it's goes 7 games.

The larger point was Skinner was statistically as good as MAF in the '09 playoffs. The Panthers only needed to contain McDavid in the SCF as Draisaitl was not effective. Detroit threw everything they had to try to contain Crosby opening the door for Malkin.

There's no way Stuart Skinner beats that 2009 Red Wings team, that's a better team than the Panthers.

MAF's 2009 stats are skewed more because he had a poor series against Washington and Pittbsurgh caught a lucky break in that Washington's goaltending was almost as bad rendering that factor moot. But he was good in the 3 other playoff rounds and good in the Finals especially with the series on the line he elevated his game.

Crosby was awful in the 2009 Finals. Malkin got them close to the Cup, but MAF took them over the top and won it for them. That's a team effort.

 

[daver]

There's no way Stuart Skinner beats that 2009 Red Wings team, that's a better team than the Panthers.

The Pens were a better team than the Oilers because Malkin and Crosby were a better combo than McDavid and Draisaitl. MAF and Skinner were both solid in the SCF. The Pens likely win in six games as MAF got outgoalied in the Games 1 and 2; actually for the whole series. Skinner had better stats than Bobrosky so your point makes little sense.

 

[daver]

Crosby was awful in the 2009 Finals. Malkin got them close to the Cup, but MAF took them over the top and won it for them. That's a team effort.

Crosby played against the WIngs three best defensive players, who also happened to be their three best offensive players and effectively removed them as being factors in the series at ES.

The Wings were counting on their supporting cast to beat Pittsburgh's supporting cast, notably Malkin.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

They have no excuse. They went to game 7 of the finals and the "best player since Lemieux" shat the bed for gm 6-7

 

[Soundwave]

The Pens were a better team than the Oilers because Malkin and Crosby were a better combo than McDavid and Draisaitl. MAF and Skinner were both solid in the SCF. The Pens likely win in six games as MAF got outgoalied in the Games 1 and 2; actually for the whole series. Skinner had better stats than Bobrosky so your point makes little sense.

It's misleading. Skinner was sub .900 in the first 3 games of the series while Bob was oustanding, that put the Oilers in an 0-3 hole. The fact that they climbed out of it and damn near won is commendable, but with a better goalie there's a good chance they're not down 0-3 in the first place.

Saying Stuart Skinner is about as good as MAF is a joke.

Bob's numbers were also skewed because the Oilers ran up the score in a couple of games. When he needed to be, he was money again in game 7.

It's not just stats, it's about goalies who can elevate and take over a game, MAF can do that, that's crucial in securing Cups.

Red Wings are 2009 Cup Champions if they were playing Stuart Skinner, zero doubt in my mind. Crosby wasn't even good in that series, lol, Malkin was not beating the Red Wings himself.

They have no excuse. They went to game 7 of the finals and the "best player since Lemieux" shat the bed for gm 6-7

Crosby shat the bed for the entire 2009 Cup Final. McDavid is the main reason the Oilers came back and almost pulled off a miracle comeback and won the Conn Smythe trophy as a result.

 

[SEALBound]

Not a chance in hell.

MAF was the best Penguins player in the Finals, specifically game 6 and 7 with Pittsburgh down 2-3 in the Finals and the Cup looking like it was going to Detroit, he shut the door with the series on the line with two outstanding games, Detroit scored 1 goal each in game 6 and 7 and that's all she wrote. If the NHL awarded a SCF Finals MVP like the NBA does, MAF would have won it.

Skinner doesn't have the ability to take over a series like that.

Malkin scored 36pts that playoff run which stood as the high total post-lockout until McDavid this recent year. He was a beast in every single round. Malkin 100% should have been the CS winner.

MAF was decent but no where near a CS worthy performance.

 

[The Expert]

Calling them McDrai is very cringe.

 

[daver]

It's misleading. Skinner was sub .900 in the first 3 games of the series while Bob was oustanding, that put the Oilers in an 0-3 hole. The fact that they climbed out of it and damn near won is commendable, but with a better goalie there's a good chance they're not down 0-3 in the first place.

The Oilers, as a team, lost Game 2. They had 19 shots.

If MAF was better in Games 1 and 2, it likely doesn't come down to a last second save in Game 7 to win.

Sorry, you can easily point the finger at Draisaitl, and McDavid thru Games 1 to 3, as the reason why the Oilers lost as you can to Skinner.

Red Wings are 2009 Cup Champions if they were playing Stuart Skinner, zero doubt in my mind. Crosby wasn't even good in that series, lol, Malkin was not beating the Red Wings himself.

Crosby and Malkin are 2024 Cup Champions if they had the Oilers supporting cast, ZERO doubt in my mind.

 

[bucks_oil]

Perhaps. Tough to know how much it would take to get a team to take him. But if you have a team like the Avs who already have a decent LTIR, it's not the worst option to add more.

They could have shopped RNH well before those offer sheets were signed though. They signed well into August. There was plenty of time to get your affairs in order to avoid those offer-sheets.

This is what I'm saying though. Sid and Malkin got their purse and then from 2010 through 2015, it was really tough to surround them with the depth needed to win. It was a "ask me how I know" statement not a "there's a difference".

Kessel had a long term contract when he was traded. He was one year into his 8 year deal at $8mil and Toronto retained $1.2mil. He didn't "sign for less". As I said, that was a fairly unique situation that doesn't come up all that often. But it goes with what I was saying, by 2015-2016, the cap went up enough for the Penguins to afford another high dollar, impact player. Tough to come up with a comparable this year but maybe Huberdeau? Konecny?

Little different than Skinner and Perry.

Hoping for the best.

I think we see things ~similarly.

RNH: Oilers have/had zero interest in moving him. He's a lifer and Oilers are happy with that. They would gladly let the young not-so-cheap talent move on instead of RNH... it was likely never a consideration. Kane is different, but I honestly think Oilers did not believe that Broberg was worth $4.6M vs what they would consider a more "sure thing" by spending that $4.6M at the deadline IF they felt they needed to depending on how the Emberson experiment worked out (midling so far). But that's the whole point: resign Broberg post-offer-sheet and you have zero flexibility. Nobody in Edmonton would care how great he's going to be at 27 years old, what matters is now... and that bet wasn't worth $4.6M to them.

On the Pens/Oilers comparison: I 100% agree... if the Oilers don't win this year, it will be tough for the next two years... like the Pens, they will need to see cap-appreciation before they can reassemble the parts. I expect you'll see some fairly significant tweaks to the roster structure in 2026 and 2027 to reload on the fly if they don't win. Obviously a goalie being a priority.

Kessel: my memory was obviously faulty there. Somehow I had it in my mind that he was bought out (it was rumored for a bit) and then signed on with Pitts, rather than traded there at near full value. My bad.

 

[Soundwave]

Malkin scored 36pts that playoff run which stood as the high total post-lockout until McDavid this recent year. He was a beast in every single round. Malkin 100% should have been the CS winner.

MAF was decent but no where near a CS worthy performance.

I said if the NHL awarded a Finals MVP (note FINALS MVP) as the NBA does, MAF probably wins it in 2009.

He was outstanding in game 6 and 7 with Pittsburgh down 2-3 in the series and the Cup looking like it was headed back to Detroit, he shut the Red Wings asses down, .963 and .958 in game 6 and 7, 1 goal allowed in each game, Malkin and Crosby didn't do much. You almost have to try to lose when your goalie only gives up 1 goal.

Penguins win the Cup.

The Oilers, as a team, lost Game 2. They had 19 shots.

If MAF was better in Games 1 and 2, it likely doesn't come down to a last second save in Game 7 to win.

Sorry, you can easily point the finger at Draisaitl, and McDavid thru Games 1 to 3, as the reason why the Oilers lost as you can to Skinner.



Crosby and Malkin are 2024 Cup Champions if they had the Oilers supporting cast, ZERO doubt in my mind.

Crosby doesn't win a single Cup with any of McDavid's teams. Explain which year he would win and how.

Draisaitl was injured in the Finals last year (broken ribs and a broken finger on the shooting hand).

Sid needed Malkin and MAF to carry him to that first Cup, McDavid doesn't have that luxury.

2009 Finals is one of the worst performances for a superstar in a Finals in probably NHL history too, 3 points, -3 for the series ... yikes.

In years where MAF was legit bad (like the years following 2009 for a bit) the Penguins were basically the same deal, eliminated in round 1 or 2, one year they got to round 3 with Vokoun (who is probably a better goalie than any McDavid has gotten). They were not a juggernaut without good goaltending. Needed a 3rd top 10 scoring type in Phil Kessel to be added and then needed both MAF AND another guy in Murray to break out in net to win it again. That's a fair amount of run support.

 

[Sensatauro]

As long as you're giving mcdrai Skinner and Pickard as their tandem, the answer to this question is, and always will be, No.