Do you think Rick Nash fulfilled all draft expectations?

[BertCorbeau]

Here are some quotes about Nash and his potential around when he was drafted. Seems like he was touted as a first line goal scoring sniper overall .. Based on this I'd say he's met expectations with his goal totals over the years

It's collapsed to avoid a wall of text

[collapse=text]http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columns/ted/2002-06-24.htm

1. Rick Nash, LW, Columbus

Nash became the first pick when Columbus swapped picks with Florida, and he will probably be the best player in this draft. He's a power forward with a real scoring knack in front of the net. The only rap against him is his skating, but that's overrated. Brendan Shanahan, Jason Allison, Rick Tocchet and a whole slew of other power forwards are less than gifted skaters. Nash will be a 35-goal man within two seasons.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/draft02/nash.htm

Red Line Report's projection:
Top-line sniping winger with star potential

The most offensive upside of any player in the draft. Has good size and at times a nasty disposition. Goes to the net and willing to take a beating to hold position in scoring territory. The bigger the game, the better he plays. Phenomenal hands and lightning quick release give him the ability to be in rare company as a natural goal scorer. Has the all-important skill of scoring huge, clutch goals and raising his game in the last 10 minutes. Frequently beats quality defensemen in one-on-one situations through sheer desire. Also has the non-physical tools — passion, temperament and leadership. His game is not without flaws. His skating, while not a problem, needs some work, especially first-step quickness. Also needs to concentrate on defensive-zone coverage and developing more consistent work ethic.

There really is only one so-called "can't miss," blue chip prospect, and that is Rick Nash, the big winger from the OHL's London Knights. Nash has the size and temperament to be a power forward, but possesses the hands and mentality of a natural sniper. While Red Line has him rated as a cut below last year's dynamic Russian duo of Ilya Kovalchuk and Stanislav Tchistov, he nonetheless has great hands and a goalscorer's touch to go along with excellent size and a rugged style.

Nash's most impressive trait though is that rare ability to elevate his play when the game is on the line in the last 10 minutes. He always seems to come through with the clutch goal at crunch time.

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[Price is Wright]

Nash reminds me of someone like Carmelo Anthony. Very good player, puts up solid numbers, but if he's your best player, you're likely not going to have a ton of success. He has not been able to demonstrate the ability of producing in the playoffs when facing the other team's best defenders.

That being said, if he's a #2, you could be in great shape.

Perfect example.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Here are some quotes about Nash and his potential around when he was drafted. Seems like he was touted as a first line goal scoring sniper overall .. Based on this I'd say he's met expectations with his goal totals over the years

It's collapsed to avoid a wall of text

[collapse=text]http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columns/ted/2002-06-24.htm



http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/draft02/nash.htm



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Hindsight is everything but never felt like you saw him at his best at the Olympics or the Playoffs.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Nash reminds me of someone like Carmelo Anthony. Very good player, puts up solid numbers, but if he's your best player, you're likely not going to have a ton of success. He has not been able to demonstrate the ability of producing in the playoffs when facing the other team's best defenders.

That being said, if he's a #2, you could be in great shape.

carmelo will be a hall of famer

the problem is he had no hall of fame teammates like every other star that won titles

 

[Blitzago*]

Nash > Erik Johnson, Fleury, Yakupov, RNH, Hall. Still too early to say about MacKinnon but probably him as well. The previous 4 1oa, Kovalchuk, DiPietro, Stefan, Lecavalier. Nash ended up being a better 1oa than those guys as well.

Nash cant even hold Kovy's jock.

 

[izzy]

Nash > Erik Johnson, Fleury, Yakupov, RNH, Hall. Still too early to say about MacKinnon but probably him as well. The previous 4 1oa, Kovalchuk, DiPietro, Stefan, Lecavalier. Nash ended up being a better 1oa than those guys as well.

Okay I like Nash, but he isn't close to Kovalchuk who was a PPG over his NHL career and had 6 better seasons than Nash's best


also he hasn't passed Lecavalier yet either...

 

[93LEAFS]

carmelo will be a hall of famer

the problem is he had no hall of fame teammates like every other star that won titles

Remind me of who the multiple hall of fame teammates were on the 2004 Pistons. One of the three with the best case was Melo's teammate at one point. Melo is just a slightly better version of Glen Robinson, his game was too selfish and lacking on the defensive side to be the go-to-guy on a championship team.

 

[PAZ]

Nash definitely fulfilled draft expectations, but he fell short of the immense hype that followed him throughout his career. Everyone was waiting for him to be a consistent 40+ goal PPG+ player, which never happened.

 

[Bleedred]

I think Nash is a really good example of an average 1st overall pick. He had a couple PPG seasons and a couple 40 goal seasons, but he's not really someone that you can build your franchise around. Hall fits this pretty well too.

Agreed.

As much as I like to laugh at Rick Nash, there's one first overall pick every year and not every first overall pick is the gonna be the best player in the game. I don't think he's really disappointing for a former first overall pick. The fact that he spent his prime on Columbus probably didn't help to keep him more on the radar.

 

[Falcons93]

The average first round pick doesn't even approach the level of accomplishment Nash has had. You are way overrating the average first round pick.

"Average pick". Nash is on pace to likely eclipse 500 goals by the end of his career.

If your team was to select 1st overall and a crystal ball told you that your #1 OA pick would likely score 500 goals and over a 1000 points, you're telling me you wouldn't take that?

You look at Nash's accomplishments in that crystal ball and you take it and run. It's not his fault the franchise that drafted him failed to build properly around him.

Let's look at the first overall picks of the past 30 years who are clearly better than Nash.

1) Turgeon
2) Modano
3) Sundin
4) Lindros
5) Thornton
6) Kovalchuk
7) Ovechkin
8) Crosby
9) Kane
10) Stamkos
11) Tavares
12) McDavid

Here are first overall picks who I think most would agree are better than Nash:

1) Lecavalier
2) Fleury
3) Hall (Potential to move into a higher tier)
4) Ekblad (Will presumably move up into the tier above as time goes on)

Here are the players I would take Nash before:

1) Murphy
2) Nolan
3) Hamrlik
4) Daigle
5) Jovanovski
6) Berard
7) Phillips
8) Stefan
9) Dipietro
10) Johnson (potential to move into a higher tier)
11) Nugent-Hopkins (Same as Johnson)
12) Yakupov (Same as Johnson)

I'd say average first overall pick is the perfect way to describe him based on this ranking...the only issue is that he was a lot better than most of the players from this third grouping while only being slightly worse than most of the players from the top grouping - he's definitely closer to Thornton or Kovalchuk than Phillips or Hamrlik.

 

[Breakers]

Of the few times Nash has made the playoffs he has SUCKED

Good regular season player though.

 

[Birko19]

2) Fleury

I think most will agree that Nash has been a better player than Fleury.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Let's look at the first overall picks of the past 30 years who are clearly better than Nash.

1) Turgeon
2) Modano
3) Sundin
4) Lindros
5) Thornton
6) Kovalchuk
7) Ovechkin
8) Crosby
9) Kane
10) Stamkos
11) Tavares
12) McDavid

Here are first overall picks who I think most would agree are better than Nash:

1) Lecavalier
2) Fleury
3) Hall (Potential to move into a higher tier)
4) Ekblad (Will presumably move up into the tier above as time goes on)

Here are the players I would take Nash before:

1) Murphy
2) Nolan
3) Hamrlik
4) Daigle
5) Jovanovski
6) Berard
7) Phillips
8) Stefan
9) Dipietro
10) Johnson (potential to move into a higher tier)
11) Nugent-Hopkins (Same as Johnson)
12) Yakupov (Same as Johnson)

I'd say average first overall pick is the perfect way to describe him based on this ranking...the only issue is that he was a lot better than most of the players from this third grouping while only being slightly worse than most of the players from the top grouping - he's definitely closer to Thornton or Kovalchuk than Phillips or Hamrlik.

I was with you all the way to the very last statement. Thornton and Kovalchuk were/are top 10 forwards of their generation. Thornton is a Hall of Fame player, Kovalchuk has a shot and would have been a lock had it not been for his leaving.

 

[JGRB]

He's an average first overall pick.

In hindsight he fits the criteria of a first overall pick, but I don't think he met the xpectations set for HIM at all.

There was huge hype around him for a long time, especially after sophomore season that he scored 41 goals. He was constantly getting lumped in with the elite of the league, but I just never really saw it or believed it.

His numbers at the WJC stink, his numbers at the olympics stink, and his playoff numbers stink. The only time he's looked elite was at World Championship tournaments which I put no weight into as the quality of competition is not very high.

 

[Porn*]

Columbus ruined him imo. He was good and seems to have lost his fire because on the international ice he pulls into another gear.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

Kovalchuk was better than Nash, but I don't know about Lecavalier. Vinny only had 2 or 3 superb seasons, wasn't as good of a goal scorer as Nash (consistently), and played on a much better team. Nash was scoring 40+ goals with literally no support.

Put Nash in his prime with prime Marty, prime Boyle, and prime Richards (he played with the sub-prime versions of the latter two), and he'd probably put Vinny's best seasons to shame. For me, Vinny himself was a huge disappointment because the hype around him was that of a generational player, which he was far from.

Nash has more goals per game and points per game for his career than Vinny. Measure Vinny's Tampa years (14 seasons) versus Nash's career (13 seasons), and Vinny still has less goals and only slightly more points per game (.84 vs. .80). Numbers wise, they are close. Nash was the superior possession player, better defensively too IMO.

From ages 18-22, Nash was clearly the better player. In their mid-20s, Lecavalier had the the higher peaks.

At age 30, two seasons ago, Nash had one of his best seasons (42 goals and 69 pts in 79 games). At the same age, Vinny was already a shell of himself. Longevity matters, and despite an injury-riddled down season last year, there's no reason based on his play at full health to expect Nash to still be good for at least 28-30 goals, maybe more (remember, he bounced back from a terrible '14 season to score 42 in '15).

Obviously Vinny's best season is better than Nash's best, but Nash has been better for longer, and was more consistent. Neither of them have great playoff numbers, though Vinny's are better than Nash's.

Just saying, it's a close debate.

Sorry if that veered off topic. Anyway, Nash has definitely fulfilled expectations, he's just not generational.

 

[Crede777]

Wasn't Nash top-5 in goals scored since entering the league for a long time? I remember in 2011 he was just behind Ovechkin, Iggy, and Crosby. He also had an impressive string of 30 goal seasons.

 

[THall4]

The only better player out of that draft was Duncan Keith, so relative to his draft he definitely met expectations. But in terms of other 1st overall picks, he's average. The only 1st overalls that wouldn't be ahead of Nash since 2002 are Fleury, Yakupov, and maybe Erik Johnson.

MAF has 2 Stanley Cups (1 as a starter), is the Penguins all time leader in basically ever goaltending stat. Pretty sure hes had a better career then Nash has.

 

[Crede777]

MAF has 2 Stanley Cups (1 as a starter), is the Penguins all time leader in basically ever goaltending stat. Pretty sure hes had a better career then Nash has.

At the time, the consensus was that Pittsburgh won the Cup in spite of their goaltending.

He stepped up when he was needed, but I think the overall sentiment has been that he is an average starter plagued with inconsistency. Not to say I think poorly of Fleury, but his actual accomplishments are a lot more impressive than you would originally guess when reading about him circa 2009.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

After how he played this year, I don't think its clear he will reach 1000 points, he would need to play til roughly 1300 career games while maintaining the same ppg rate. I really don't think Rick Nash is going down as a top 100 player of all time.

As for what I expected, as mentioned to have a peak that was comparable to Iginla, John LeClair and Bertuzzi who were the elite powerforwards when Nash was drafted (and who he was compared to), or more recently Corey Perry and Jamie Benn. Nash has been consistently good, but I don't think he was ever a top 3 winger in the league at any given point. When you draft a winger 1st OA you are expecting a guy who can peak as a top 5 guy at his position.

Even if you don't think he hits 1,000 points, he'll still get close to that number imo. He's not that old. That's an accomplishment.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

MAF has 2 Stanley Cups (1 as a starter), is the Penguins all time leader in basically ever goaltending stat. Pretty sure hes had a better career then Nash has.

Fleury has the better resume, but better player relative to their position? that's definitely arguable.

 

[Irishguy42]

Wasn't Nash top-5 in goals scored since entering the league for a long time? I remember in 2011 he was just behind Ovechkin, Iggy, and Crosby. He also had an impressive string of 30 goal seasons.

I think he still is Top 5 since entering the league.

 

[Crede777]

I think he still is Top 5 since entering the league.

That might be true but I didn't want to assert it without the facts to back it up.

I just know that was true about 5 years ago.

 

[Irishguy42]

That might be true but I didn't want to assert it without the facts to back it up.

I just know that was true about 5 years ago.

I remember seeing a graphic not long ago that had something to do with Nash and goals scored.

I'd have to dig around to find it.

 

[Irishguy42]

I remember this popping up on Reddit around the time Ovechkin got career goal #501 (some time in January?). So, still in the middle of the season. Obviously, this meant the numbers changed a little bit after that (ex Nash went up to 335, Ovi went up to 525, etc).

Prior to Ovi entering the NHL, Nash had 58G. Just throwing it out there, in context to Nash...