Do You Think Ovechkin's Legacy Will Improve over Time | Page 16 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
Toggle sidebar

Do You Think Ovechkin's Legacy Will Improve over Time

Well, that Crosby would have 1957 pts ? for second most of all time, doing it in his era ? with 3 cups-4 finals, the arguments for above Lemieux would not sound that crazy.

1.45 ppg would be quite juicy
 
MadLuke said:
Well, that Crosby would have 1957 pts ? for second most of all time, doing it in his era ? with 3 cups-4 finals, the arguments for above Lemieux would not sound that crazy.

1.45 ppg would be quite juicy
Click to expand...

Lemieux is head and shoulders above Crosby.
Unless you were talking about Claude Lemieux
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Sentinel
Johnny Engine said:
Yeah, any xGF model underrates players who can score from a distance by its very nature, and Ovechkin is the best one of those. It's not really a flaw in the metric because the whole thing about elite talents is that they do unexpected things, and if you force a model to account for every individual shooter's ability you don't really have a model anymore, you just have...reality, which we already had before we started doing math.
Click to expand...
That's my issue with xGF and related models. Elite talent by nature should outperform xGF. Those players i rate on actual production.

I think as a whole we've overcorrected to look past actual production to "game flow" and shit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FrankSidebottom and jigglysquishy
Gerulaitis said:
Lemieux is head and shoulders above Crosby.
Unless you were talking about Claude Lemieux
Click to expand...
Head and shoulder than this Crosby that just beat Gretzky goal records while being one of the best playmaker of all time (how many Art Ross that hypothetical version has raked) ?

Or we are back to talking about the real Crosby ?
 
Last edited:
Ovechkin rightly so has a strong legacy and I don't see it dwindling after retirement. When you have your name at the top of a storied list then future fans will always know you and learn about you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sentinel
The Macho King said:
That's my issue with xGF and related models. Elite talent by nature should outperform xGF. Those players i rate on actual production.

I think as a whole we've overcorrected to look past actual production to "game flow" and shit.
Click to expand...
I agree. I must say, I have never looked at any modern advanced stats -- other than occasionally paying attention to points-per-60 or some other fairly basic ones -- because I simply don't find it useful.

When we're talking about above-average NHL offensive forwards, production isn't quite everything, but it's A LOT.

I think of it as the 'Luc Robitaille' test. I think we tend to under-rate Luc Robitaille, simply because he didn't dominate in one category at his peak (like Brett Hull), he didn't win a scoring title (like Jamie Benn), and he wasn't the kind of forward who goes out and dominates with puck-possession and/or physical play (like Lindros). Yet he consistently scored and put up big numbers, from 1986 through 2002. (He scored at about the same rate as Brett Hull.)
 
Personally, I see the limitations of any one metric as a reason to look closer, not to stop looking.

My expectation with Robitaille is, if these stats were around years ago, he'd be a bit of an xG king, while looking less good through the lens of straight Corsi. His shooting would probably also outperform his personal xG by a little bit, but not by as much as a guy like Gartner would. If you never watched him, you wouldn't know if that meant Robitaille was great at getting into spaces to score (true), or a fat lazy aging power forward who camps out in the crease (not true, but you're going to love what Keith Tkachuk turns into 10 years from now), but you'd have few more breadcrumbs than you would simply by seeing that he scored 50 goals, and you'd know he's not Mike Gartner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wetcoast and Bear of Bad News
Well, xG would be quite a bit of different (especially proprietary models that count more valuable pieces of info) too...shot distance and shot type, for instance, change by era.
 
Michael Farkas said:
Well, xG would be quite a bit of different (especially proprietary models that count more valuable pieces of info) too...shot distance and shot type, for instance, change by era.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's absolutely true and I thought about getting into that but decided I had rambled enough. My assumption is that closer=better often enough that it holds as a conversational rule of thumb, but I've used words like expect, assume, probably, a whole bunch in the last two posts and that's not an accident.
 
At age 39 Ovechkin is leading the Conn Smythe race.

Big if but if he were to win the Cup and Conn Smythe this year he has to be the greatest Euro career ever... probably greater than Crosby as well
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sentinel
Tad early to start handicapping the Conn Smythe race but IF Caps were to win the Cup then it’ll take some heavy lifting from Ovechkin. Whether Ovy receives the Conn Smythe or not, a second Cup would be a boost to his legacy. Maybe it helps solidify his place in the next tier after the Big 4.

Problem is that at this stage in his career any accolades and awards are more or less gravy. Nothing short of another 100pt, 50 goal season would really do much to change anyone’s perception one way or another. And even then it would just bolster his status as a contributor in the back 9 of his career. If he pulls off a Cup, Conn Smythe and another 40g, 30a season next year then it really puts him squarely in the running for top 10 all time consideration
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Sentinel
maddskkilz said:
Tad early to start handicapping the Conn Smythe race but IF Caps were to win the Cup then it’ll take some heavy lifting from Ovechkin. Whether Ovy receives the Conn Smythe or not, a second Cup would be a boost to his legacy. Maybe it helps solidify his place in the next tier after the Big 4.

Problem is that at this stage in his career any accolades and awards are more or less gravy. Nothing short of another 100pt, 50 goal season would really do much to change anyone’s perception one way or another. And even then it would just bolster his status as a contributor in the back 9 of his career. If he pulls off a Cup, Conn Smythe and another 40g, 30a season next year then it really puts him squarely in the running for top 10 all time consideration
Click to expand...
He is already squarely in Top10 of all time. There is no way in flaming inferno that you can keep the GOAT Goalscorer out of Top 10. You will be laughed out of every discussion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom