Do you think Ovechkin's legacy will improve over time?

[MadLuke]

Maybe, but it will take a lot of time, until the people young in the era loose their voice.

Like for how long it took Richard to be really high to go down because he has no trophy case at all (single Hart, playing an in Smythless era).

 

[895]

This doesn't make any sense as some have pointed out as it's not like that Ovi will even be a top 100 player in the league on the day or season he reaches 895 goals.

I mean his place all time in history is kinda looked in at age 38 going into this season right or do you really think on all time lists anything players do or don't do after 38 impact enough on their previous resume to alter it in any significant way?



McDavid could conceivably pass Mario into the top 4 even without a SC, if one thinks he needs a SC then respectfully I think they are out to lunch and I said this even before Ovi won a SC.

In a 32 team league a SC isn't all that important as some make it out to be and sound arbitrary and lazy.

Sometime in the future someone will look up crosby and say well he has 3 SC and more points (assuming some projection here) than Mario therefore he must be better right?

I'm not making that argument just pointing out how arbitrary numbers don't mean that much in the big scheme of things.

Sorry what? He’s on pace for 50+ goals and 100+ points. He’s tied for most goals currently at 13. How is he not a top 100 player?

 

[Boxscore]

Sorry what? He’s on pace for 50+ goals and 100+ points. He’s tied for most goals currently at 13. How is he not a top 100 player?

Not a Top 100 player??? Lmao. Dude is literally going to be the greatest goal-scorer in the history of a league that's well over 100 years old. He's going to score more goals than Gretzky. He's already Top 10-20 today, let alone Top 100 lol.

 

[MadLuke]

Ovechkin could never score in today league, league is too fast and too good now.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Ovechkin could never score in today league, league is too fast and too good now.

Surely Ovechkin scoring so much in mostly low scoring seasons during his prime will get him some extra bit of respect?

 

[MadLuke]

Surely Ovechkin scoring so much in mostly low scoring seasons during his prime will get him some extra bit of respect?

Would not even score 10 goals in today league, yes it was low scoring in the old days, but that was because no one was good back then.

 

[Overrated]

Would not even score 10 goals in today league, yes it was low scoring in the old days, but that was because no one was good back then.

The league has gotten so good and scoring goals so hard that even the GOAT of hockey Connor McJesus ended up 34th in goals last season.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

If Ovechkin scores 50 again and wins another rocket this year some more discussions will need to be had

 

[Sentinel]

This doesn't make any sense as some have pointed out as it's not like that Ovi will even be a top 100 player in the league on the day or season he reaches 895 goals.

He is tied for the league lead in goals. If he is even in the Top5 in goals this season, he will absolutely be in the Top20, let alone Top100.

I mean his place all time in history is kinda looked in at age 38 going into this season right or do you really think on all time lists anything players do or don't do after 38 impact enough on their previous resume to alter it in any significant way?

Yes, it does. Career numbers matter.

McDavid could conceivably pass Mario into the top 4 even without a SC, if one thinks he needs a SC then respectfully I think they are out to lunch and I said this even before Ovi won a SC.

In a 32 team league a SC isn't all that important as some make it out to be and sound arbitrary and lazy.

Sometime in the future someone will look up crosby and say well he has 3 SC and more points (assuming some projection here) than Mario therefore he must be better right?

I'm not making that argument just pointing out how arbitrary numbers don't mean that much in the big scheme of things.

Let's just say I disagree with everything you said.

 

[wetcoast]

Sorry what? He’s on pace for 50+ goals and 100+ points. He’s tied for most goals currently at 13. How is he not a top 100 player?

Read again what i posted its about when he passes the record and yes he has been better this season but do people forget last season or the couple before?

Let me put this another way if you had an in season draft throw everyone in the pool redraft all 32 teams for just the rest of the year would Ovi be picked in the top 100 for the rest of the year?

Honest people answering this question it would be a no that that's why legacies are cemented in players peak/prime seasons not so much when some artibatary number is passed or not.

Not a Top 100 player??? Lmao. Dude is literally going to be the greatest goal-scorer in the history of a league that's well over 100 years old. He's going to score more goals than Gretzky. He's already Top 10-20 today, let alone Top 100 lol.

Once again I'm talking about in season when he scores that goal of course he is somewhere around 10ish all time give or take some spots.

 

[895]

Read again what i posted its about when he passes the record and yes he has been better this season but do people forget last season or the couple before?

Let me put this another way if you had an in season draft throw everyone in the pool redraft all 32 teams for just the rest of the year would Ovi be picked in the top 100 for the rest of the year?

Honest people answering this question it would be a no that that's why legacies are cemented in players peak/prime seasons not so much when some artibatary number is passed or not.


Once again I'm talking about in season when he scores that goal of course he is somewhere around 10ish all time give or take some spots.

why do you think he’s not going to get the record this season? He’s only 28 away.

On pace for 60 goals and 110 points. Even if he slows down to 42 goals and 80 points, how is he not a top 100 player this season?

 

[wetcoast]

He is tied for the league lead in goals. If he is even in the Top5 in goals this season, he will absolutely be in the Top20, let alone Top100.

the season doesn't end in November and saw a hot start in the 21-22 season that turned out to be a somewhat aberration maybe connected to coivid and have also seen his play since then.

Yes, it does. Career numbers matter.


Let's just say I disagree with everything you said.

So career numbers matter....sometimes dependng on the player?

That's exactly the problem with your initial proposition here and it sounds like selective criteria depending on which player it is which doesn't strengthen any argument being made in fact it does the opposite.

 

[wetcoast]

why do you think he’s not going to get the record this season? He’s only 28 away.

On pace for 60 goals and 110 points. Even if he slows down to 42 goals and 80 points, how is he not a top 100 player this season?

Where is MJ with all this pace talk?

Read again what I wrote a hot start doesn't change that he most likely wouldn't be a top 100 player time when he scores that particular goal but who knows maybe MJ will like the apce argument now eh?

I mean a PDO of 109 is going to be sustained right?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Since 2020-21, post winning any awards or accolades, a 35-39 year old Ovechkin over the 4.2 seasons to date is 7th in Goals, 27th in points and slightly over PPG. The Incrementalists, in addition to just overlooking the power of achivement/longevity in general aren't even properly recognizing that old guy Ovechkin is still a very impactful player.

 

[895]

Where is MJ with all this pace talk?

Read again what I wrote a hot start doesn't change that he most likely wouldn't be a top 100 player time when he scores that particular goal but who knows maybe MJ will like the apce argument now eh?

I mean a PDO of 109 is going to be sustained right?

I have no idea why you are referring to some previous debates you had with some other poster. What does this have to do with your statement?



Let’s get this clear. Ovechkin has scored 13 goals this year in only 17 games. He needs 28 more to break the record. You said he will not be a top 100 player the season he breaks the record.

This means you either 1) don’t think he will score 28 more goals this year or 2) you don’t think a player who scores 41 goals and approximately 70-80 points is a top 100 player. So which is it?

 

[Sentinel]

the season doesn't end in November and saw a hot start in the 21-22 season that turned out to be a somewhat aberration maybe connected to coivid and have also seen his play since then.

So career numbers matter....sometimes dependng on the player?

That's exactly the problem with your initial proposition here and it sounds like selective criteria depending on which player it is which doesn't strengthen any argument being made in fact it does the opposite.

I have no idea what you're talking about abs, at this point, I don't particularly care. Have a nice day.

 

[Hanji]

Read again what i posted its about when he passes the record and yes he has been better this season but do people forget last season or the couple before?

Let me put this another way if you had an in season draft throw everyone in the pool redraft all 32 teams for just the rest of the year would Ovi be picked in the top 100 for the rest of the year?

Honest people answering this question it would be a no that that's why legacies are cemented in players peak/prime seasons not so much when some artibatary number is passed or not.


Once again I'm talking about in season when he scores that goal of course he is somewhere around 10ish all time give or take some spots.

Ovechkin is tied for 1st in goals, and sits at 14th in points. Tied for 2nd in 5-on-5 points. Tied for 4th in +/-.
And as WarriorofTime pointed out, the past 4 seasons (plus this year) he's 7th in Goals and 27th in points.

You'd need some serious Dave Blaine sleight of hand trickery to convince any sane person that Ovechkin would be taken outside the top 100 in a redraft for this current season.

The whole notion is absurd.

 

[wetcoast]

Ovechkin is tied for 1st in goals, and sits at 14th in points. Tied for 2nd in 5-on-5 points. Tied for 4th in +/-.
And as WarriorofTime pointed out, the past 4 seasons (plus this year) he's 7th in Goals and 27th in points.

You'd need some serious Dave Blaine sleight of hand trickery to convince any sane person that Ovechkin would be taken outside the top 100 in a redraft for this current season.

The whole notion is absurd.

I guess you didn't watch last season and sure he is off to a good start but my bet is that by the time that goal is scored no he wouldn't be a top 100 player for any all in redraft.

Ask yourself this, was Ovi based on last season a top 100 player going into this season?

 

[WarriorofTime]

I guess you didn't watch last season and sure he is off to a good start but [paraphrased speculation that he actually sucks]

Have you considered the first half of last season may have been a "bad start"?

 

[wetcoast]

Have you considered the first half of last season may have been a "bad start"?

I've watched him play many games since he has entered the league and there has been a downward trend in his overall actual play, it's great that he has a comeback for fantasy hockey but you probably saw him play last season and in the playoffs as well right?

Either way we won't see any hypothetical redraft and he will break the goal scoring record at some point but his legacy is pretty much what it is at this point as he's not jumping over anyone with 29,30 or even 70 more goals.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Either way we won't see any hypothetical redraft and he will break the goal scoring record at some point but his legacy is pretty much what it is at this point as he's not jumping over anyone with 29,30 or even 70 more goals.

Maybe not for you.

 

[wetcoast]

Have you considered the first half of last season may have been a "bad start"?

Yes it was a bad start and your insertion and change of my quote is something else altogether and I'd appreciate that you not change my quote and then insert your misguided and factually incorrect belief instead of what was said.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yes it was a bad start and your insertion and change of my quote is something else altogether and I'd appreciate that you not change my quote and then insert your misguided and factually incorrect belief instead of what was said.

I didn't change your quote I said [italicized paraphrasing]

Anyone reading would know it's not re-stating anything you typed out.

 

[wetcoast]

I didn't change your quote I said [italicized paraphrasing]

No you changed it and the only reason I'm not reporting it is so that people can see that you are posting in bad faith.

disagree with me 8 times a week I don;t care but changing my quote is simply a really poor look.

Anyone reading would know it's not re-stating anything you typed out.

Sure and I'll put the original quote here and then follow it with your changes quote so people don't have to scroll back.

Here is my actual quote

I guess you didn't watch last season and sure he is off to a good start but my bet is that by the time that goal is scored no he wouldn't be a top 100 player for any all in redraft.

Ask yourself this, was Ovi based on last season a top 100 player going into this season?

And then you changed version

I guess you didn't watch last season and sure he is off to a good start but [paraphrased speculation that he actually sucks]

But keep telling us that you didn't change anything buddy.

 

[WarriorofTime]

No you changed it and the only reason I'm not reporting it is so that people can see that you are posting in bad faith.

disagree with me 8 times a week I don;t care but changing my quote is simply a really poor look.



Sure and I'll put the original quote here and then follow it with your changes quote so people don't have to scroll back.

Here is my actual quote


And then you changed version



But keep telling us that you didn't change anything buddy.

Hi, are you aware what "paraphrased" means?

"express the meaning of (the writer or speaker or something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity."