Do you think Ovechkin's legacy will improve over time?

[Neutrinos]

I don't think his overall impact puts him as the 2nd best player of his generation

Outside of a few elite seasons early in his career, I don't see much of a difference between Ovechkin and Kovalchuk

 

[rmartin65]

Outside of a few elite seasons early in his career, I don't see much of a difference between Ovechkin and Kovalchuk

I feel like most players look a lot worse if we ignore "a few elite seasons", no?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, now I have to come to Ovechkin's aid...he's not Anthony Mantha with a pulse either...

 

[MadLuke]

Outside of a few elite seasons early in his career, I don't see much of a difference between Ovechkin and Kovalchuk

Even if we fully remove Ovechkin incredible peak of 2008-2010.

One of the best Calder winner season ever.

7x Rocket Richard trophy, tie with B.Hull for the most ever.
682 goals, 1219 points in 1193 games, 101 playoff points with 52 goals.
1 Conn Smythe
Hart Finish:
1-2-6-6-7-9-10-10-12-13-14-22-23

Still one of the best all stars team finish ever but... left wing and what not (he even had a second place and first place one year)

 

[Zine]

I don't think his overall impact puts him as the 2nd best player of his generation

Outside of a few elite seasons early in his career, I don't see much of a difference between Ovechkin and Kovalchuk

"A few elite seasons early in his career"?

Ovechkin has 8 NHL First Team selections. Only 2 forwards in history have more.
He also has 3 Second Team selections.

 

[BallardEra]

The Gretzky goal record chase is fun but it's also sort of obnoxious, at this point. He's a liability on a bad team and he's openly searching for goals, even, I would argue, at times where he'd be better off looking to pass or re-group in the offensive zone.

If him having the record makes some in the future think that he's superior to Gretzky in scoring, that'll suck but I suppose it's inevitable. We already see this in the NBA with current players gunning for statistical records well after their prime.

Actually this is not true if you watched him play last season. He was looking to pass a lot early in the season.

If anything, his second half surge helped them get into the playoffs.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby has 46 more career points than ovechkin in 154 less games. You cannot look at that and think Ovechkin is a better player now or in the future. Crosby will flirt with 700 goals as well. So he himself has had no problems putting the puck in the net.

 

[JackSlater]

Even if we fully remove Ovechkin incredible peak of 2008-2010.

One of the best Calder winner season ever.

7x Rocket Richard trophy, tie with B.Hull for the most ever.
682 goals, 1219 points in 1193 games, 101 playoff points with 52 goals.
1 Conn Smythe
Hart Finish:
1-2-6-6-7-9-10-10-12-13-14-22-23

Still one of the best all stars team finish ever but... left wing and what not (he even had a second place and first place one year)

See, post-2010 Ovechkin, if he was a player, would be wildly overrated to me. But 2006-2010 Ovechkin existed, and that's a great peak that earns him a spot as an all time great.

 

[MadLuke]

Wonder if he get those all-star / hart finish without the peak before, it would be a strange player to evaluate (and to exist to start with, how can you be the type of talent that win Rockets as a diminished 34 years old without having been all time special when you were young, etc....

 

[JackSlater]

"A few elite seasons early in his career"?

Ovechkin has 8 NHL First Team selections. Only 2 forwards in history have more.
He also has 3 Second Team selections.

I think that you discounted Ovechkin's second all star team in 2013, when he got first team at his correct position, RW that year, and second team at LW anyway. Which means that you are smarter than the NHL. Not Ovechkin's fault actually, and he definitely deserved first team all star, but it boggles my mind that the NHL just let that error stand.

Wonder if he get those all-star / hart finish without the peak before, it would be a strange player to evaluate (and to exist to start with, how can you be the type of talent that win Rockets as a diminished 34 years old without having been all time special when you were young, etc....

I think that's likely, at least to a small degree. It happens though. Crosby wouldn't have gotten the 2016 Conn Smythe if he wasn't Sidney Crosby (nor would he receive the weird Selke hype), Lidstrom wouldn't have gotten the 2011 Norris if he wasn't Nicklas Lidstrom etc.

 

[daver]

I think that's likely, at least to a small degree. It happens though. Crosby wouldn't have gotten the 2016 Conn Smythe if he wasn't Sidney Crosby (nor would he receive the weird Selke hype), Lidstrom wouldn't have gotten the 2011 Norris if he wasn't Nicklas Lidstrom etc.

Funny how most of the voters who voted for Kessel at #1 had Crosby at #2.

And what is weird about him receiving Selke votes?

 

[JackSlater]

Funny how most of the voters who voted for Kessel at #1 had Crosby at #2.

And what is weird about him receiving Selke votes?

I don't know what you are trying to get at with regard to Crosby or Kessel and number one or two. I'd have voted for Crosby over Kessel, but it was not a typical vote. You switched their names but left their performances the same, the voters still would have gone for Crosby. As for Selke votes he never deserved any, but by name value he got some.

 

[Staniowski]

I think Ovechkin's reputation will be excellent for a long time, and he will have something very specific to protect that reputation.

But there's a possibility that future generations will assess him somewhat more critically.

 

[DitchMarner]

I don't think his overall impact puts him as the 2nd best player of his generation

Outside of a few elite seasons early in his career, I don't see much of a difference between Ovechkin and Kovalchuk

I don't think there's a good case at all for number two for anyone else from that generation.

Malkin might have an argument if he wasn't so fragile and injury prone during his prime. He had more talent than his point finishes suggest. He had some big seasons early on and then was only a top ten scorer one more time.

Kane and Stamkos are players who have also been accused of not being as good as their stats. At his peak, Ovechkin was much more dominant than Kane has ever been and he has both those guys beat on longevity as well. Having watched Tavares for years, I can say he definitely doesn't belong in the conversation for second best player or forward from his generation.

It's harder to compare defensemen and goaltenders to scoring wingers, but I stand by what I said in the first paragraph.

 

[K Fleur]

I’m only 33 so I hopefully have 40 more years to let everybody know Crosby was better.

My son is 4 months old and he already knows.

 

[Albatros]

Around 2017 some people became ridiculous with comparing Crosby to older players. Some acted like Lemieux and Gretzky were from the 30s or 40s lol. Lemieux dominated the League offensively just a few years before Crosby started his NHL career.

Eh, Lemieux in his last few years may have been many things and fair enough in his late 30s, but dominant he wasn't all too often anymore. When they finally were playing together, Crosby looked every bit like the exciting next generation ready to replace Lemieux, as he should have.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Eh, Lemieux in his last few years may have been many things and fair enough in his late 30s, but dominant he wasn't all too often anymore. When they finally were playing together, Crosby looked every bit like the exciting next generation ready to replace Lemieux, as he should have.

Probably means lemieux was 8th in scoring n 2nd in ppg 3 years prior to crosby joining the nhl

 

[Albatros]

Even then maybe dominant on PP, while being -25 that year despite the games missed. The team as bad as they were actually won slightly more often with Lemieux missing than with him.

As soon as Lemieux retired, the Penguins that had finished dead last in the division every time 2001 to 2006 instantly became a serious playoff team led by Crosby. I wouldn't blame that on Mario, but the turnaround was thanks to Crosby and to pretend like he wasn't a transformative player after Lemieux is just utter nonsense.

 

[TeeTee]

There is far too much video evidence in todays age for there to be much movement in rankings. Not to mention all of the message board discussions to peruse. I feel it is safe to say that Crosby will be comfortably ahead in the rankings.

 

[pi314]

This is one reason I loved McDavids big year.. it showed all those arguments to be wrong and many of us were vindicated after so long!

They shrunk goalie equipment around 2017 and scoring went up league wide.

It’s not like Huberdeau peaked higher than Ovechkin… even though blindly quoting stats says he did.

 

[VanIslander]

For most of his career guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Malkin impressed as much if not more.

I've been a huge OV fan as a Caps fan since 1982 (Langway!). But the awesome young bangin' OV who was a demon without the puck became a less peppy, saunter into shooting position, watch others backcheck kind of guy.

He lacks the heart of a Forsberg or Yzerman.
Imo.

He is NOT someone Conn Smythe would want to go into an alley with!

I hope historians will tell stat junkies about game situations. Context is everything.

 

[Offtheboard412]

They shrunk goalie equipment around 2017 and scoring went up league wide.

It’s not like Huberdeau peaked higher than Ovechkin… even though blindly quoting stats says he did.

Yeah all it took was for scoring to reach the highest levels since the early 90's for players to put up numbers not seen since...the early 90's lol. There's a lot of context being ignored to make a statement like that.

 

[pi314]

Assuming he gets the goal record, Ovechkin will be remembered by most as a top 10 player all time.

But for me personally…

Having watched a lot of his career, I can easily think of 20 guys better than him.

I’ve never seen a player cherry pick more to put up meaningless stats.

 

[daver]

Yeah all it took was for scoring to reach the highest levels since the early 90's for players to put up numbers not seen since...the early 90's lol. There's a lot of context being ignored to make a statement like that.

If anything, the McDavid narrative has been jolted a bit given Kucherov just about matched peak McDavid last season with MacKinnon not that far behind. Those two players were not thought of being on par with Ovechkin/Crosby/Malkin let alone among the best non-Big 4 talent of all-time before 23/24.

McDavid to his immediate peers is like Jagr/Crosby/Howe to their immediate peers; clearly ahead offensively but not in a way that conjures up visions of Wayne/Mario/Orr.

Gaudy point totals does not change relative domination.

 

[Midnight Judges]

It's going to be hard to sustain the slanders against Ovechkin because the statistics undermine them.