Do you think McDavid somewhat disappoint by not having more dominant regular seasons like 2023 season?

[Miami Wice]

Now we see that among the very greats that Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Lemieux have many consecutive seasons where they blow out other players in scoring race by significant margins.

McDavid is very great and consistent for having 6 Art Ross trophies and being one of top P/GP in practically every season.

But he has 2 dominant seasons 2020-2021 and 2022-2023 where he outscore everyone by significant margin.

But so many people put asterisk next to 2020-2021 season because 56 games and only divisional play and they say McDavid would not have this big margin in normal situations.

So that leave 1 all-time amazing season which is 2022-2023.


Do you think McDavid need more outright dominant seasons where he is far ahead of competition similar to what Big 4 Mt.Rushmore has? Is 1 dominant season and several Art Rosses enough to surpass the greats in terms of regular season success?

I would also like to stick to regular season and not make this about playoffs and Cups.

Discuss.

 

[Felidae]

No, the fact he has arguably the most dominant regular season since Lemieux when players like Crosby, Jagr, Ovechkin came after is already an accomplishment in and of itself.

And now he's been an art Ross winner/threat longer than Crosby, Jagr and Ovechkin.

I don't think him being on the level of Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe or Orr are or were realistic expectations.

But now he's building a career where he may very well end up at the top among players outside the big 4. If anything I think he's come closer to exceeding expectations than not meeting them.

 

[Miami Wice]

No, the fact he has arguably the most dominant regular season since Lemieux when players like Crosby, Jagr, Ovechkin came after is already an accomplishment in and of itself.

I agree that this great accomplishment, but I think there was possible excitement in early 2020s that he could string consecutive seasons of this dominance level similar to Howe in early 50s, or Orr/Gretzky/Lemieux.

And now he's been an art Ross winner/threat longer than Crosby, Jagr and Ovechkin.

This is true. McDavid was 3rd in P/GP in rookie season and been Art Ross contender throughout career since.
6 Art Ross trophies is amazing accomplishment- it is just that I thought there was potential for more dominant wins.

I don't think him being on the level of Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe or Orr are or were realistic expectations.

But now he's building a career where he may very well end up at the top among players outside the big 4. If anything I think he's come closer to exceeding expectations than not meeting them

But did you think after 2023 season he would string together similarly dominant seasons after that?

There are people who say he is not separating himself enough from Kucherov and Mackinnon in recent seasons.

 

[tfwnogf]

I think he is disappoint about not winning the cup or olympics. More disappoint about that than lapping the field in the regular season.

 

[Greatzsky 99]

Now we see that among the very greats that Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Lemieux have many consecutive seasons where they blow out other players in scoring race by significant margins.

McDavid is very great and consistent for having 6 Art Ross trophies and being one of top P/GP in practically every season.

But he has 2 dominant seasons 2020-2021 and 2022-2023 where he outscore everyone by significant margin.

But so many people put asterisk next to 2020-2021 season because 56 games and only divisional play and they say McDavid would not have this big margin in normal situations.

So that leave 1 all-time amazing season which is 2022-2023.


Do you think McDavid need more outright dominant seasons where he is far ahead of competition similar to what Big 4 Mt.Rushmore has? Is 1 dominant season and several Art Rosses enough to surpass the greats in terms of regular season success?

I would also like to stick to regular season and not make this about playoffs and Cups.

Discuss.

Well, everybody had divisional play that year.
And no, no one is near no99

 

[Mulletman]

McDavid might not dominate his competition in the same way as others before him, but he'll likely stay near the top for longer. McDavid has 10 straight seasons with over 90 points. The record is Gretzky with 13 straight seasons. Can't really see McDavid not going for 14 straight 90+ point seasons unless he misses over 25 games in one of the next 4 seasons. Could even see McDavid break Gretzky's overall record for 90 point seasons as well, since Gretzky only put up 17 seasons with 90 points or more...

 

[Greatzsky 99]

He has separated himself against MacK and Kuch, by looking att ppg in regular season, he has slightly over 1.5ppg and they are around 1.2-1.25, if that isnt separation in regular season i dont know what is, it would be like saying that Kuch and MacK hasnt seprated themself over Matthew Thackhuk

 

[Miami Wice]

Well, everybody had divisional play that year.
And no, no one is near no99

But it is said that North division was weaker and McDavid dominance inflated due to this so there are many who dismiss this season. Even in poll section about top 5 Hart seasons- you see some people dismiss this 2021 season even though McDavid have large margin of victory.

Maybe not near Gretzky but perhaps Howe who had Art Ross wins with good dominance from 1951-1954. McDavid has as many Art Ross in lesser time but other than 2023 (if you put asterisk on 2021) his margin not as large %wise.

 

[tabness]

Only people who put him on such a pedestal would be so disappoint like Therrien (or alternatively, coping lol). The reality is that was a massively powerplay inflated season for McDavid, and the one two years before was just the covid year, and he really isn't as statistically dominant over MacKinnon or Kucherov as some people want him to be.

 

[Miami Wice]

He has separated himself against MacK and Kuch, by looking att ppg in regular season, he has slightly over 1.5ppg and they are around 1.2-1.25, if that isnt separation in regular season i dont know what is, it would be like saying that Kuch and MacK hasnt seprated themself over Matthew Thackhuk

Career wise yes and this is because McDavid is true generational player and he come in rookie season as one of top guys- 3rd in P/GP, and win in sophomore season. Kucherov and Mackinnon take time.

But from 2019 to current- McDavid has 1.65 P/GP and Kucherov with 1.54/GP and Mackinnon with 1.46 P/GP and Mackinnon gets closer if you set years after 2019.

And lots of that big McDavid lead come from 2 seasons- but some put asterisk on 2021.
So question is should McDavid had more seasons like 2023 one?

 

[Jocke1]

I think he is disappoint about not winning the cup or olympics. More disappoint about that than lapping the field in the regular season.

I am very disappoint with this post.

 

[Miami Wice]

Only people who put him on such a pedestal would be disappointed (or alternatively, coping lol). The reality is that was a massively powerplay inflated season for McDavid, and the one two years before was just the covid year, and he really isn't as statistically dominant over MacKinnon or Kucherov as some people want him to be.

I think there is asterisk about 2021.

But scoring on powerplay is part of skill and drawing penalties is skill also.

 

[tabness]

I think there is asterisk about 2021.

But scoring on powerplay is part of skill and drawing penalties is skill also.

I agree in general, but 5 on 5 play is the gold standard of hockey, and again, if this guy is so much better and the clear cut best like many people want him to be based on stats, why can't he score more than his peers recently at even strength/5 on 5?

 

[dukeofjive]

Dude is the best player since lemieux to play in the nhl.

The majority of people who down grade is play are people who cant understand that winning cups is a team accomplishment.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I agree in general, but 5 on 5 play is the gold standard of hockey, and again, if this guy is so much better and the clear cut best like many people want him to be based on stats, why can't he score more than his peers recently at even strength/5 on 5?

If these other guys are so good, why cant they score more when they have a man advantage?

 

[Miami Wice]

I agree in general, but 5 on 5 play is the gold standard of hockey, and again, if this guy is so much better and the clear cut best like many people want him to be based on stats, why can't he score more than his peers recently at even strength/5 on 5?

For 2023 season- I don't know if I buy this because McDavid average less Powerplay time per game than Kucherov and Mackinnon. McDavid had 3:55, Kucherov have 4:00, and Mackinnon with 4:05.

And McDavid score 46.4% of points on powerplay while Kucherov with 44.2%. Mackinnon yes did have less with 30%.

I did not look into 5v5 specific but McDavid had 75 ESP, Kucherov with 63, and Mackinnon with 77.
So I you can make case about Mackinnon, but I don;t see it about Kucherov for 2023 season.

But Mackinnon should work on PP that year considering he played on it more than McDavid did.

Edit: saw Mackinnon only have 71 GP that year so it makes his even strengh play more impressive. But powerplay still part of game.

 

[Felidae]

I agree that this great accomplishment, but I think there was possible excitement in early 2020s that he could string consecutive seasons of this dominance level similar to Howe in early 50s, or Orr/Gretzky/Lemieux.

By 2020-21, he was "already" 24, and that season still wasn't on the level of the big 4 players. Imo, If he was a Lemieux, Gretzky, Orr talent, he would have shown it earlier.

Those 3 were already doing things unheard of earlier in their careers. Orr w

Orr had won an art ross, hart and 3 Norris trophies which was unheard of.

Gretzky demolished the record books in his 21 year old season. Most points and assists in a season. 89 more points than the next highest scoring teammate which I'm sure was a record before he surpassed it.

Lemieux at 22-23 would have been record breaking most points in a season if not for Gretzky. But they were still clearly above every other non-Gretzky season production wise.

Howe had a record breaking season at 1952-53 at the time for most points in a season, though admittedly he was 24. Howe had a slower start than McDavid so he's a bit of an "anomaly" among the big 4 in that regard.

But I don't remember McDavid reaching Gretzky/Lemieux levels of dominance being a majority opinion.

This is true. McDavid was 3rd in P/GP in rookie season and been Art Ross contender throughout career since.
6 Art Ross trophies is amazing accomplishment- it is just that I thought there was potential for more dominant wins.

But did you think after 2023 season he would string together similarly dominant seasons after that?

I can't speak for how other people felt, but I personally thought 2023 was likely to be the best season of his career, 26 is around the age many players peak.

It is also happens to be Jaromir Jagr's best year, another season contending for best non big 4 season.

There are people who say he is not separating himself enough from Kucherov and Mackinnon in recent seasons.

I think those people are wrong.

It's similar to Crosby in that he may not always sweep the awards at any given year, but he will consistently be contending for major awards throughout his prime.

McDavid was already winning trophies before Kucherov and Mackinnon ever established themselves as elite players, and they're older than him.

 

[PensandCaps]

He has separated himself against MacK and Kuch, by looking att ppg in regular season, he has slightly over 1.5ppg and they are around 1.2-1.25, if that isnt separation in regular season i dont know what is, it would be like saying that Kuch and MacK hasnt seprated themself over Matthew Thackhuk

Counting Kucherovs early career. The last 6-7 years he's right with McDavid.

 

[HavingACow4Cowan]

What? No way.

You can't expect seasons like that. Before he had that season, very few people would have believed a player would ever score 150+ points in a season again.

I think it wasn't until late in that season that many realized he was going to hit/surpass 150 points.

That's one of his signature seasons. You can't say it's disappointing Lemieux didn't have more seasons like 1989.

 

[Slayer97]

This is a ridiculous thread

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

I agree in general, but 5 on 5 play is the gold standard of hockey, and again, if this guy is so much better and the clear cut best like many people want him to be based on stats, why can't he score more than his peers recently at even strength/5 on 5?

Since entering the league McDavid has outproduced MacKinnon and Kucherov by 62 and 99 points respectively. He has also been more efficient at 5v5 in per game and per minute basis as well

 

[tabness]

Since entering the league McDavid has outproduced MacKinnon and Kucherov by 62 and 99 points respectively. He has also been more efficient at 5v5 in per game and per minute basis as well

Yes, emphasis on "since entering the league", because McDavid was a better 5 on 5 scorer earlier on in his career than he is in the past few years (and also those guys didn't hit the level they eventually did).

As I noted, recently (and it isn't that recently anymore it's like over five years at this point), the same time that McDavid really started hitting the big numbers and have people really talking him up as all that and so much better than everyone else, his 5 on 5 numbers aren't all that.

 

[bobber]

If McDavid is a disappointment then what are the rest of the players in the world. He is considered the best there is presently

 

[Albatros]

Since entering the league McDavid has outproduced MacKinnon and Kucherov by 62 and 99 points respectively. He has also been more efficient at 5v5 in per game and per minute basis as well

MacKinnon wasn't all that good for his first four seasons (save for playoff home games against Minnesota anyway). That's nine years ago by now, however.

 

[Iggys Dome]

He probably hits 150 again last season if he doesn’t start ice cold by his standards