Do you like this team?

[Bluelines]

Only in the sense that every good team ever "outscores their problems". That's called hockey.

Not true at all.

My English comprehension is perfectly fine, thanks. The problem here is that you claim that you're not asking for zero mistakes, but you're simultaneously making wildly incorrect statements about the team based on isolated examples of normal mistakes that we see from every team. So yes, you are essentially asking for zero mistakes. All teams and players make mistakes. The majority of goals are a result of some sort of mistake or defensive breakdown. Contrary to your baseless claims, we are actually quite good at preventing and limiting those relative to other teams.

You're English comprehension is clearly lacking. Gave you a direct quote that I made before you posted your false and misleading reply. There is no grey area, what I said is clearly what I said. If you don't get that, clearly you don't read well.

Isolated examples, do you want me to list every mistake they made this year, its a freaking sports forum not War and Peace. I'm not writing a thesis on mistakes the Leafs made this year. Unfortunately for you, you know I'm right, you know the defensive break downs are easily fixed. At least I would hope you would know these defensive lapses are easily fixed, Marner's blown play on the Ehlers goal the other night, clearly he made a mistake, he could have dumped it in the corner or rimmed it around the back of the net. Big save Dave could have trapped the the puck. Your telling me there is nothing the Leafs could have done better on that play. No way coaching or better decision making could prevent that goal?

 

[Mats13]

Would you feel better if I said that they have a short window.
As far as your comment about so many things wrong with my post well that’s you opinion. You pointed out 1 thing you didn’t like. Being as you are so high on your own opinion I would love to hear what and why you think the rest of it is wrong especially the part about how much of the cap is spent on 4 forwards
Finally I would love to hear why you think Babcock would make a post like this.
Your turn

No I wouldn’t because saying our window is short is equally wrong.

The post sounds like Babcock cuz he was well known to complain about how the team was constructed. Going as far as comparing when we got Muzzin.

The post is wrong for a multitude of reasons. First we aren’t losing in the first round. Secondly, if we somehow do, Keefe and Dubas aren’t going anywhere any time soon. Only way we lose if Matthews and Marner go down or something and that won’t be on them.

 

[Bluelines]

I don't present myself as an expert on anything.

I present simple facts that expose Zekes bullshit opinions. That's all.

There fixed it for you..

 

[Bluelines]

Ah - so your Major Junior experience is unchallengable expertise, but professional experience means nothing.

Nice!

Sure it can be challenged, by people who know the game, by you, no not a freaking chance.

 

[Bluelines]

You literally couldn't see the obvious flaws in babcock's system, despite your vast MTHL experience.

What does this have to do with Babcock are you having some sort of Woodstock flashback? I've seen people range this far off topic before but its typically at a music festival and they are usually on shrooms...

I don't follow you

 

[Bluelines]

When it comes to being a pro athlete and what goes on in the room they obviously know more than us.

Sure what goes on in the room, they are there they should know.

 

[Stephen]

Almost every pro athlete hockey analyst says the sport isn’t math like baseball. They see things fans can’t and they know value that isn’t necessarily all theorem. Analytics are important, interesting and valuable but just a tool in the tool box. Recall last year how certain posters tried over and over to argue our D was actually good, supported by selected this and that(there’s something for everyone, every argument it seems). Well look at this year? Now that’s a real defence and it makes it even more apparent how it wasn’t good last year. And yet, bombarded with all these stats to discount what every pro player analyst knew and said, the Leafs need to upgrade their D. Luckily Kyle agreed.

The thing makes me chuckle is the idea of an eye test and analytics schism, when as hardcore fans you probably want to be consuming the data on your laptop and watching the game on the couch, because like you say, one is a tool (and the other is the entertainment).

For myself, I think the truest indicator of how well a team is doing is that championship run that captures the imagination of even the most superficial bandwagoners and I think the Leafs should be poised to take that step. Look at the recent Toronto Raptors run. We all just enjoyed the eye test part of the game because they were undeniably excellent and didn't need to dig any further to justify. It's all well and good to talk up how good your team is on a message board but at the end of the day, if it falls short of its goals like last year, what's the point in pumping them up?

 

[ACC1224]

(


Ironically enough NHL teams routinely hire these so called amateur stats folks. The Leafs stats department has the founder of ExtraSkater working for them, the WarOnIce guys got hired first by the Wild and then hired away by the Kraken ect.

Doesn't mean every single one of these public analytics sites are worth their value (they're not) but some of the sentiment in this thread is completely off the mark.

That said, agreed that the Leafs have clearly put together a smart mixed group of folks bringing together different aspects of hockey knowledge

I’m not sure I understand your point. I realize that teams hire data analysts and they can provide information that can be helpful in how the team is run.
Perhaps ‘J Fresh’ and ‘Jeffler’ are weighing multiple front office positions at this moment.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What was said last year by every former player who watched the team, was despite middling advanced stats, we had a very suspect D core, the way it was constituted.

Our defense wasn't at the high-end level it is this year, but it was still average, even through some very devastating injuries. In the playoffs, they were great. You have no clue what "every former player" thinks, and they are still subject to biases.

 

[Stephen]

They literally have the longest window in all of hockey.

Leafs window of contention is indeed wide open but the team that is best positioned to compete is probably still Colorado simply because they have that Makar-Girard-Toews-Byram blueline that we currently have no answer for and cheaper Big 2 up front.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Bad mistake by Tampa. They are now terrible defensively. Unacceptable to make a mistake, no good team would do such a thing.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I’m not sure I understand your point. I realize that teams hire data analysts and they can provide information that can be helpful in how the team is run.
Perhaps ‘J Fresh’ and ‘Jeffler’ are weighing multiple front office positions at this moment.

What is your point? That because JFresh doesn't work in an NHL front office his analysis is meaningless?

Also I don't think anyone uses Jeffler for anything stats-wise so not sure why you keep bringing him up.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Gave you a direct quote that I made before you posted your false and misleading reply.

Nothing false or misleading in anything I said. The issue is you're contradicting that quote in everything else you're saying.

Isolated examples, do you want me to list every mistake they made this year

Sure, and then do the same for every other team in the league.

Your telling me there is nothing the Leafs could have done better on that play. No way coaching or better decision making could prevent that goal?

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that mistakes are part of the game. All teams and players make them, and the Leafs are actually quite good at limiting them and opportunities, relative to other teams. You're taking isolated examples and ignoring the data to make false statements about the team and it's players overall.

 

[Bomber0104]

I’m not sure I understand your point. I realize that teams hire data analysts and they can provide information that can be helpful in how the team is run.
Perhaps ‘J Fresh’ and ‘Jeffler’ are weighing multiple front office positions at this moment.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Over-compensating? What?

Not all of us take message boards as serious as you.

Some of us simply just enjoy watching and laughing at people taking themselves and their amateur opinions way, way too seriously.

I'm sure that's the reason why they added the laugh emoji in the first place.

A bunch of laugh emojis is the internet equivalent of “I’m not mad” from someone who definitely is.

As far as not taking amateurish opinions seriously, your side is literally arguing that their amateur eyes are better than people who actually put in the work to quantify what happens on the ice and again, many of whom have moved on to work for NHL teams in a capacity that some can only dream of.

Doesn’t seem like you even enjoy watching the Leafs. You’re at your most active when this team is struggling but disappear when the team is on a roll. Can’t wait for the Leafs get hot again and you fade away again.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Almost every pro athlete hockey analyst says the sport isn’t math like baseball. They see things fans can’t and they know value that isn’t necessarily all theorem. Analytics are important, interesting and valuable but just a tool in the tool box. Recall last year how certain posters tried over and over to argue our D was actually good, supported by selected this and that(there’s something for everyone, every argument it seems). Well look at this year? Now that’s a real defence and it makes it even more apparent how it wasn’t good last year. And yet, bombarded with all these stats to discount what every pro player analyst knew and said, the Leafs need to upgrade their D. Luckily Kyle agreed.

Intangibles are more important in hockey than in any other professional sport in my opinion.

 

[Bomber0104]

Almost every pro athlete hockey analyst says the sport isn’t math like baseball. They see things fans can’t and they know value that isn’t necessarily all theorem. Analytics are important, interesting and valuable but just a tool in the tool box. Recall last year how certain posters tried over and over to argue our D was actually good, supported by selected this and that(there’s something for everyone, every argument it seems). Well look at this year? Now that’s a real defence and it makes it even more apparent how it wasn’t good last year. And yet, bombarded with all these stats to discount what every pro player analyst knew and said, the Leafs need to upgrade their D. Luckily Kyle agreed.

Yup.

All the guys here that habitually copy and paste blogs stats said our defence was great last year and jumped down everyone's throat who dared to suggest the team needs more character, grit, and defensive capability.

Then Dubas acquired exactly those types of players both in the off-season and trade deadline...

 

[tokyoite]

Do you like this team?

conditionally.

 

[Racer88]

No I wouldn’t because saying our window is short is equally wrong.

The post sounds like Babcock cuz he was well known to complain about how the team was constructed. Going as far as comparing when we got Muzzin.

The post is wrong for a multitude of reasons. First we aren’t losing in the first round. Secondly, if we somehow do, Keefe and Dubas aren’t going anywhere any time soon. Only way we lose if Matthews and Marner go down or something and that won’t be on them.

I guess time will tell

 

[zeke]

Leafs window of contention is indeed wide open but the team that is best positioned to compete is probably still Colorado simply because they have that Makar-Girard-Toews-Byram blueline that we currently have no answer for and cheaper Big 2 up front.

And Colorado doesn't have an answer for matthews-marner-tavares-nylander and Toronto has a cheaper big-3 on the backend as of next season.

 

[Dayjobdave]

I like this team.

they have improved defensively. Not sure how they will stack up against Colorado or Vegas or Tampa but I. Looking forward to finding out.

 

[nsleaf]

Love the team, can't say the same for some fans.

 

[Dave92]

I complain a lot, but i like this team exponentially more than the past 2 seasons. It'll be hard to like them as much as i did before the contract disputes until they actually accomplish something real. Making the playoffs in a league where more than half the teams makes the playoffs is nothing, win the first 2 rounds and it will easily be my favorite team since 2003.

But unless they win the cup i won't like them nearly as much as the team that beat the Senators without Sundin.

 

[Bluelines]

Nothing false or misleading in anything I said. The issue is you're contradicting that quote in everything else you're saying.

Sure, and then do the same for every other team in the league.

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that mistakes are part of the game. All teams and players make them, and the Leafs are actually quite good at limiting them and opportunities, relative to other teams. You're taking isolated examples and ignoring the data to make false statements about the team and it's players overall.

Cool I would be happy to do it for you, pay my consulting fee that I usually charge my clients it's $250/hr, prove to me you can pay it and I would be happy to outline every correctable mistake at 44 games, that would be a minimum $11k, happy to take your money.

 

[justashadowof]

I love all of my fellow Leafs' fans, even the dirty commies.