Do you consider Matthews a 'Generational' player or talent?

[Connor McConnor]

Matthews is trending to score as much if not more than Ovechkin... If he doesn't regress or decline during the next decade, it will become a very tight race. The guy turned 25 y/o a few days ago and already has 259 NHL goals....

I'm far from a Matthews/Leafs fan. I get flame out by Leafs fans on the occasion but I am more a fan of calling a spade a spade than anything else.

I’m sorry but AM will never be as good as Ovi.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Why am I the first to respond to this!? Sid won the Hart in his age 19 season, it took Ovechkin until his age 20 season to just win the Calder. Ovechkin was not the far superior player in their first 5 seasons.

Ovechkin had his first season stolen by the lockout and you hold that against him?

Their first 5 years coincide. Ovechkin was superior in 4 of them.

At the end of their 5th season:

Ovechkin - 2 Harts, 3 Pearson/Lindsays, 1 Art Ross, 2 Rockets
269 goals
529 points
PPG: 1.34
GPG: .68
Playoff PPG: 1.43
Playoff GPG: .71

Crosby - 1 Hart, 1 Pearson, 1 Art Ross, 1 Rocket
183 goals
506 points
PPG: 1.36
GPG: .49
Playoff PPG: 1.32
Playoff GPG: .48

The Hart voters and the players voted Ovie above Sid 4 of those 5 seasons (Ovie was a Pearson finalist in 2006 in addition to winning it 3 other times).

 

[norrisnick]

Was slow. See above

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

“FAR Superior“ not demonstrated.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Not yet... But when his career is over he has a chance to be looked back as generational I would say.


The only young guy in the league you can definitively say is generational already right now is McDavid. And I would say the only other two young guys who even have a chance to be labeled generational are Matthews and Makar. And for both it will take a hell of a lot more hardware over the next ~5-10 years to get to that level.


Makar is also closer to that generational distinction then Matthews IMO because Makar has the chance to be the clear cut best player at his position for a very long period of time, whereas even if Matthews dominates goal scoring for the next decade, he's still only going to be the 2nd best forward in the league behind McDavid.

 

[HockeyVirus]

People talk about scoring too much and discount his elite defensive talent and physicality. He's a true modern power forward who scores 60 goals

 

[Midnight Judges]

People talk about scoring too much and discount his elite defensive talent and physicality. He's a true modern power forward who scores 60 goals

No doubt his .56 hits/game since entering the league is amazing - good for 297th among forwards.

Matthews's physicality is right up there with Crosby's defense.

 

[Xspyrit]

Yeah, but that insane longevity is part of Ovy's legacy. It's hard to say a guy is pacing for more than Ovy when the guy is 25. Maybe when he's 32 or 33 and still putting up ridiculous numbers.

Yeah and that is why this thread is a bit premature.

If you ask in 2015 if Erik Karlsson was generational I would have told you yes but I didn't know what was coming after the injuries

As of now, Matthews is trending to become generational

I’m sorry but AM will never be as good as Ovi.

I hope you're right but his shot is filthy.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Not any more than Stamkos was/is. That is, not at all.

 

[HockeyVirus]

No doubt his .56 hits/game since entering the league is amazing - good for 297th among forwards.

Matthews's physicality is right up there with Crosby's defense.

Try the past 2 seasons. Also not just hits but how he protects and carries the puck.

He led the series in hits against Tampa out of both teams.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Yeah and that is why this thread is a bit premature.

If you ask in 2015 if Erik Karlsson was generational I would have told you yes but I didn't know what was coming after the injures

But so far, Matthews is trending to become one



I hope you're right but his shot is filthy.

It’s not about hoping lol. Comparing Ovi and AMs first 6 years makes this a laughable comparison. He’s nowhere near as dynamic an overall player as Ovi and he never will be that. He’s an exceptional goal scorer. Ovi turned a pathetic franchise into a regular president trophy team. AM can’t even win a playoff round and his playoff stats are also worse. It’s not close…

 

[leafsfan5]

No, but maybe.

What I mean is, as of now he's the best pure goal-scorer in the league, IMO. That alone doesn't make him generational, unless he pulls an Ovy and stays on top for 15 years.

That said, if he loses his mind and hits 75 this year, it's time to re-evaluate.


Yeah, but that insane longevity is part of Ovy's legacy. It's hard to say a guy is pacing for more than Ovy when the guy is 25. Maybe when he's 32 or 33 and still putting up ridiculous numbers.

One thing going for him this year is he isn't recovering from wrist surgery. People forget, but he had a really slow start to the season, only 1 goal in 6 games as he was working his way back into form

He went the rest of the way with 59 in 67. A 72 goal pace

 

[LT]

I've always thought "generational" was very much a personal description. Everyone has different ideas about what a "generation" in hockey even is, much less who belongs. For me, it's what players come to mind when I think of a 10ish year period. I think I would categorize it as being similar to "the face of the NHL" for a period of 5 or more consecutive years.

It's not just being the best player for a long time, I think of it more as someone who's style and personality on the ice shape the entire game while they're playing. When someone thinks hockey at that time, they think of that player. Arbitrary start and end dates, though, and there is a LOT of time where, in my mind, a generational simply wasn't there.

Richard for the 40s, Howe for the 50s-60s, Orr in the 70s, Gretzky in the 80s, Lemieux in the 90s, (BIG maybe for) Jagr in the early 2000s, Crosby and Ovi in the late 2000s, early 2010s, and McDavid from 2016 to now.

Matthews is a solid no right now. I'd argue this is his first year of "generational-level" play, so he's got a while to go.

 

[Connor McConnor]

I've always thought "generational" was very much a personal description. Everyone has different ideas about what a "generation" in hockey even is, much less who belongs. For me, it's what players come to mind when I think of a 10ish year period. I think I would categorize it as being similar to "the face of the NHL" for a period of 5 or more consecutive years.

It's not just being the best player for a long time, I think of it more as someone who's style and personality on the ice shape the entire game while they're playing. When someone thinks hockey at that time, they think of that player. Arbitrary start and end dates, though, and there is a LOT of time where, in my mind, a generational simply wasn't there.

Richard for the 40s, Howe for the 50s-60s, Orr in the 70s, Gretzky in the 80s, Lemieux in the 90s, (BIG maybe for) Jagr in the early 2000s, Crosby and Ovi in the late 2000s, early 2010s, and McDavid from 2016 to now.

Matthews is a solid no right now. I'd argue this is his first year of "generational-level" play, so he's got a while to go.

Well said and I agree with basically everything you’ve said. AM is stupidly good at hockey. Even as an Oiler fan I’ve always rated him higher than Drai even though many disagreed.

That said, the fact he even has players (Drai, MacK, Kuch) that can be compared to him on the same level illustrates the fact he can’t be generational. If he hasn’t even separated himself from the “other tier” how can he be anywhere close? Every single generational player most agree on were generational from season 1. It took AM season 6 to showcase “generational” production. Are we going to ignore what Drai did the season prior?

There’s literally 0 argument that AM will ever be generational unless he has 5+ seasons like he just had. Considering he’s batting 1/6 the odds of that seem low, but not impossible.

 

[norrisnick]

I've always thought "generational" was very much a personal description. Everyone has different ideas about what a "generation" in hockey even is, much less who belongs. For me, it's what players come to mind when I think of a 10ish year period. I think I would categorize it as being similar to "the face of the NHL" for a period of 5 or more consecutive years.

It's not just being the best player for a long time, I think of it more as someone who's style and personality on the ice shape the entire game while they're playing. When someone thinks hockey at that time, they think of that player. Arbitrary start and end dates, though, and there is a LOT of time where, in my mind, a generational simply wasn't there.

Richard for the 40s, Howe for the 50s-60s, Orr in the 70s, Gretzky in the 80s, Lemieux in the 90s, (BIG maybe for) Jagr in the early 2000s, Crosby and Ovi in the late 2000s, early 2010s, and McDavid from 2016 to now.

Matthews is a solid no right now. I'd argue this is his first year of "generational-level" play, so he's got a while to go.

I'd argue that Lidstrom is the "face" of the DPE or just the 2000s in general for that matter.

Just the 2000s:
6x Norris trophies, 2x Finalist
7x First Team All Stars, 1x Second Team All Stars
2 Cups (1x Conn Smythe and 1x as Captain)
Olympic Gold.

And that's going in/out of the lockout so two vastly different eras as far as the game on the ice. In his 30s.

Could you imagine Orr's career up through age 26 and then stacking on Lidstrom's from 27 on?

 

[Edgelord]

I’m sorry but AM will never be as good as Ovi.

IMO AM is better. He plays a decent 2 way game and plays C

 

[LT]

I'd argue that Lidstrom is the "face" of the DPE or just the 2000s in general for that matter.

Just the 2000s:
6x Norris trophies, 2x Finalist
7x First Team All Stars, 1x Second Team All Stars
2 Cups (1x Conn Smythe and 1x as Captain)
Olympic Gold.

And that's going in/out of the lockout so two vastly different eras as far as the game on the ice. In his 30s.

Could you imagine Orr's career up through age 26 and then stacking on Lidstrom's from 27 on?

One of the weird things about how I think of generational is that it's based on assumed "hype" at the time. Which is naturally going to strongly lean toward exceptional offense rather than defense. Lidstrom's game wasn't particularly exciting to watch, he's not really someone who's a casual fan would immediately realize is special. His accomplishments need a bit of context because of the distinct lack of simple defensive statistics. Maybe it's stupid, but that's my view.

 

[DFC]

One thing going for him this year is he isn't recovering from wrist surgery. People forget, but he had a really slow start to the season, only 1 goal in 6 games as he was working his way back into form

He went the rest of the way with 59 in 67. A 72 goal pace

Yeah, when I said 75, I was looking for a number that's both insane and yet somewhat realistic. I do think Matthews might have that kind of magic in him, but we have to see it before people will start throwing around the generational tag.

So yeah, i think it's a "no," but we should be open to Matthew's proving us wrong, because he just might.

 

[Panthaz89]

He's a generational goal scorer, borderline as an overall player. Out of all players in NHL history who have played at least the same amount of games as Matthews, there's only two with a better goals per game average (Bossy and Lemieux). Matthews is ahead of Ovechkin, Gretzky, Rocket Richard himself, etc. And not to mention he's no slouch defensively.

I think when his career is all said and done he'll be thought of similarly to Malkin. Borderline generational, not the single defining player of his era (Crosby, McDavid).

Can you guys please stop comparing career averages to guys who retired or are playing in their late 30s......congrats it's higher than guys who played long after their peak ended.

 

[Ruthervin]

In terms of his sheer impact on the ice and dominance vs his peers, I think he's on the fence. But given how unique and valuble his skillset is, very reliable center who pots an shitlton of goals 5on5, think that pushes him into generational for me.

Flame away...or agree?

No.

I think the term 'generational' gets thrown out *way* too much. Only a handful of players are "generational" because they defined an era of hockey. Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Trevor Linden, Dominik Hasek, Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Connor McDavid, are the more recent generational talents. Before that? Some of the top players from those great Islanders and Habs teams would likely get in.

A generational talent is someone that players and fans will remember 30-40 years from now.

Matthews *might* become a generational talent but it seems unlikely to me. Matthews, to me, is a superstar.

 

[MAB1]

Can you guys please stop comparing career averages to guys who retired or are playing in their late 30s......congrats it's higher than guys who played long after their peak ended.

Except for the fact that if compare him 6 seasons into his career vs all those guys 6 years into their career he still comes out on top...wanna try again?

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Definitely not, no reasonable argument can be made that Matthews is generational

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Laine is better though...

 

[Dion TheFluff]

One thing going for him this year is he isn't recovering from wrist surgery. People forget, but he had a really slow start to the season, only 1 goal in 6 games as he was working his way back into form

He went the rest of the way with 59 in 67. A 72 goal pace

what's crazier is that his S% was still only 18.2% over that time as well. I know it's unlikely but if Matthews could stay healthy and have good puck luck, I think he could hit 70 goals in a season.

No.

I think the term 'generational' gets thrown out *way* too much. Only a handful of players are "generational" because they defined an era of hockey. Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Trevor Linden, Dominik Hasek, Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Connor McDavid, are the more recent generational talents. Before that? Some of the top players from those great Islanders and Habs teams would likely get in.

A generational talent is someone that players and fans will remember 30-40 years from now.

Matthews *might* become a generational talent but it seems unlikely to me. Matthews, to me, is a superstar.

what!?!?
one of these things is not like the others haha

 

[Xspyrit]

It’s not about hoping lol. Comparing Ovi and AMs first 6 years makes this a laughable comparison. He’s nowhere near as dynamic an overall player as Ovi and he never will be that. He’s an exceptional goal scorer. Ovi turned a pathetic franchise into a regular president trophy team. AM can’t even win a playoff round and his playoff stats are also worse. It’s not close…

Were we not... talking about goal scoring? Matthews has a 0.64 GPG. Ovechkin had a 0.63 GPG through his first 6 years. Matthews also started playing at 19 y/o while Ovechkin was 20 y/o

I will always like Ovie better but you also can't say his defensive game was better than Matthews game already is. Even now it's not even close (not saying JFresh is gospel but this is still revealing)

That you like it or not, Matthews is trending in the same direction as Ovie did back then. Ovie will always be the sexy beast but talent and results are talent and results.

If the Leafs had won back to back Cups while Matthews scored as much as in the season, he would be seen as God actually. That's about how deep of analysis some people are able to have.