Do you believe this team on paper is capable of winning the stanley cup?

[Holymakinaw]

Polls simple. I just would honestly like to know where everyone sits in regard to this question.

Even with Muzzin out I didn't see him as the deciding factor in us winning. I wish him all the health in the world for him and his family but there is still a chance it could be addition by subtraction depending on the replacement.

Having said that, I just honestly don't see this team being stronger than last years team, even when we inevitably string some wins together. I just don't see a deep enough team on the backend and in net especially, to get the job done.

Just wanted to see where Leaf Nation sat with this question.

Have a good one ladies and gents.

No. We're a flawed team, with questionable goaltending and defence, and soft, flashy offensive "stars". Good for regular season & individual greatness only.

 

[mydnyte]

Polls simple. I just would honestly like to know where everyone sits in regard to this question.

Even with Muzzin out I didn't see him as the deciding factor in us winning. I wish him all the health in the world for him and his family but there is still a chance it could be addition by subtraction depending on the replacement.

Having said that, I just honestly don't see this team being stronger than last years team, even when we inevitably string some wins together. I just don't see a deep enough team on the backend and in net especially, to get the job done.

Just wanted to see where Leaf Nation sat with this question.

Have a good one ladies and gents.

we cant win it with our current defense, it needs a revamp.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It really is not hyperbole. Flawed may have been extra but to think this team is well constructed top to bottom is ludicrous. Just about as ludicrous as being hopeful every year expecting them to actually make it past the first round. They have top offensive talent in the league and okay defensive depth with question marks surrounding goaltending and their captain is doubly overpaid for what he brings night in and night out with no true number 1 D that can eat big minutes in the playoffs. It is a FLAWED team by definition when you see what actually wins in the playoffs consistently year in and year out. And no, a run like Pittsburgh's is not an argument against that, as it was an outlier. Toronto is fun to watch in the regular season because they can score a lot. But it doesn't take a degree in hockey fundamentals to see the team has a compete level problem, is top heavy and is lacking on the back end compared to real contenders.

Sounds like hyperbole to me. Agree to disagree.

Except that we didn't show up in the first round for 2 years in a row against very beatable competition.

Then decided to do the same for 2/7 games last year. We could have choked them out in 5.

It's not hard to show up for 7 games. We played 2 great games 3 good ones bombed for 2. You can't do that in the playoffs

All our series have gone the distance. If that to you means they didn't show up, agree to disagree.

Yes.

Most of the the teams that have eliminated this group of players went on to the final or won the Cup.

As disheartening as last year was, losing to Tampa in 7 isn't a slight.

Agreed.

 

[Leafblooded]

no one did a thing, including Matthews.

he needs to stop being a bitch himself.

Although I agree with you deep down, the reality is if he as much as breaks a nail our season is over. He shouldn't be expected to fight.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I think at the start of the season my answer was a "probably not". A lot had to go right with Sandin/Liljegren taking steps, Giordano/Muzzin not declining too badly, and Murray/Samsonov making huge comebacks.

Now with Murray and Muzz out potentially long term, the situation has only gotten worse and will require some major steps from unlikely candidates on defense and goaltending, or some shrewd ass trades with limited expendable assets.

With Nicky Bobby looking to take the next step and the potential of Knies in the wings, I think our top six is looking good now and for the future. Bottom six...jury is still out. I like the Jarnkrok addition and hope Kampf sticks around, but the rest of it is a big question mark.


I'm thinking this ain't it Kyle. I was wrong about last year's team though, to be fair.

Call me naive but I still think this is a good group of core forwards, and we have some good complimentary forwards up and coming. But this offseason I would not be surprised to see a complete overhaul to the bottom six, defense, and goaltending (Samsonov pending)....likely under a new GM.

Hope I'm wrong and they are lifting Lord Stanley in 2023.

 

[ShaneFalco]

No. We're a flawed team, with questionable goaltending and defence, and soft, flashy offensive "stars". Good for regular season & individual greatness only.

This exactly

 

[TheScandal89]

The team needs a few tweaks imo. I'll post potentially what best case scenario looks like. I'd like to see Robertson on the top line, hes a shooter and with 34 and 16 hes bound to get space. I feel he's too fast to be on Tavares' lime imo

Robertson - Matthews- Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Knies/Kerfoot - 3C - Jarnkrok
ZAR - Kampf - 4RW or Kube/Simmonds

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - New D
Gio - Liljegren

1. We need a true 3C
2. Holl has gotta go
3. Knies must make a big impact to the 3rd line
4. Really no use for Engvall, I was never a fan of his. He's not terrible, but he's not really good at anything, just average all around.

I would be interested in acquiring a rental to pair with Muzzin. Someone like Klingberg would be a huge add.

With all that said, the team doesn't currently look like contenders. We have pieces, but they haven't shown the ability to get the job done yet. It can change, look at Ovie and the Caps, they won when everyone thought they were done

 

[kevsh]

It can change, look at Ovie and the Caps, they won when everyone thought they were done

You're post was fair overall but I hate this comparison. Yes, the Caps struck gold one season but in the 20 seasons surrounding that Cup win they did not get past the 2nd round once. 20. If all the stars hadn't magically aligned that one year, the narrative changes 180 degrees.

So not exactly a model I'd be looking to replicate, unless the hope is that the Dubas model will just get lucky one year with a lot of help from other teams having injuries, off years, shaky goaltending, etc.

 

[Hellcat]

These players are not what Dubas thinks they are. The way the players talk, you'd think a cup win is preordained. I feel like the player think because they are so talented, how can they not win a cup. the immaturity that follows this roster is not because the players are young, its because their heads are in Dreamland. Every team has stars, every team has talent, not every team is grounded work ethic culture. Hard work beats the Leafs every time, I'm not sure these players get that. If you think something is preordained, does it matter what effort you give? I can work my ass off, dig pucks, block shots, win 50/50 plays, get my nose in a dog pile, get bumps and bruises and win the Cup or I can give a half assed effort don't block shots, don't fight hard in the corners, don't chase down lose pucks, don't play in the middle of the ice, avoid the bumps and bruises and win the cup. I'd pick the first one but I like to compete and the rush of winning those one on one battles, not so sure the Leaf stars feel the same way.

 

[therealkoho]

They're too soft and too entitled. Mathews is a god but Marner will never match his game, he's like the little brother forever in the shadows. Jealous little guy. Trade Marner for a boatload of talent. Dump Tavares for grit. Stop giving away guys like Lube, get some new guys who can actually instill some fear in the opponents. Get rid of the PC leadership and find some goddamn grit.

Does this mean Tara Sloane has to go too?

 

[Leafblooded]

Does this mean Tara Sloane has to go too?

Lol haven't see her play anything other than her constituents

 

[Apotheosis]

Sounds like hyperbole to me. Agree to disagree.


All our series have gone the distance. If that to you means they didn't show up, agree to disagree.


Agreed.

I'll agree to disagree.

 

[GlassesManbad]

You're post was fair overall but I hate this comparison. Yes, the Caps struck gold one season but in the 20 seasons surrounding that Cup win they did not get past the 2nd round once. 20. If all the stars hadn't magically aligned that one year, the narrative changes 180 degrees.

So not exactly a model I'd be looking to replicate, unless the hope is that the Dubas model will just get lucky one year with a lot of help from other teams having injuries, off years, shaky goaltending, etc.

Caps are a post away from never making the finals with Ovi (They are done and need a rebuild). It's sucha fine line.
To want to give up on a team that has Marner/Matthews at 25 is laughably rediculous.

No. We're a flawed team, with questionable goaltending and defence, and soft, flashy offensive "stars". Good for regular season & individual greatness only.

How come our goaltending and D look so good? And how about those lack of shots aginast?

Outside of Leafs’ fans, who thinks this is a Cup contending team? Most of the former player analysts in the media that I’ve heard don’t believe they are.

The analysts are BRUTAL. Who cares what they think?

 

[GlassesManbad]

"Pietrangelo a #1 D? Nah, hasn't played like that for awhile"

Seriously. And the leafs have Reilly as their number one dman and you are ok with that??? OMG!

Pietrangelo is aging and regressing. He hasn't played like a#1 D in Vegas. I'd take Rielly over him easy. I also think Vegas has more issues than the Leafs and Leafs are better.
I know, I know they "Won Rounds" before missing the playoffs last year. Their roster is so different it's not a good argument at all and irrelevant.
That Vegas team is in such cap hell, lacking depth, is betting their season on an undrafted goalie and is aging.

 

[Tak7]

No, not currently.

However - this also won't be the team they go into the playoffs with

 

[Mitchy]

With a healthy defence, yes

 

[Holymakinaw]

How come our goaltending and D look so good? And how about those lack of shots aginast?

How about you give it more than 12 seconds? Our Goaltending & "team D" will let us down badly again. Give it time.

 

[GlassesManbad]

How about you give it more than 12 seconds?

They were 4th overall last year with 5th worst goaltending in the NHL. This is a very solid team.

 

[Holymakinaw]

They were 4th overall last year with 5th worst goaltending in the NHL. This is a very solid team.

And they lost in the 1st round once again. They're a solid REGULAR SEASON team only. Useless beyond that.

 

[GlassesManbad]

And they lost in the 1st round for the 7th time. They're a solid REGULAR SEASON team only.

6th. And it's silly to claim it's too early given they did this year last. Their D numbers were actually very solid.
It's going to be tough to be as bad in nets as the Leafs were last year.
Oilers contract to Campbell...ouch.

Given the results with MIkheyev making 4.75 per and Campbell 5 milion per, I'd say Dubas is right to not give out silly overpays to support talent.
Samsonov is 25 and makes 1.8. Damn.

 

[Holymakinaw]

6th. And it's silly to claim it's too early given they did this year last. Their D numbers were actually very solid.
It's going to be tough to be as bad in nets as the Leafs were last year.
Oilers contract to Campbell...ouch.

Given the results with MIkheyev making 4.75 per and Campbell 5 milion per, I'd say Dubas is right to not give out silly overpays to support talent.
Samsonov is 25 and makes 1.8. Damn.

LOL. Yeah, keep drinking that blue kool-aid and "beleafing". Same crap every year. Enjoy the pond hockey.

 

[GlassesManbad]

LOL. Yeah, keep drinking that blue kool-aid and "beleafing". Same crap every year. Enjoy the pond hockey.

They really are allowing so few shots. Great start given Marner and matthews haven't gotten started yet.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

This been on my mind for a while and I cant keep it in anymore. This is not going to be easy to swallow but I think many of you are thinking it too but just not ready to accept it or hear it out loud or be caught saying it, but you are probably guilty of enjoying watching someone else brave enough to say it.

I usually join and help those guys who defend the core at all costs but my patience only has 1 year left for Marner to play like he cares and willing to take a scratch in the playoffs instead of being easily isolated on perimeter. All you have to do to beat marner lead team in playoffs is to give him the entire outside and focus on lanes only. If he tries to come inside lay the body on him and he retreats back to the perimeter. It is in your best interest to let him juice up his xGF and give him the illusion he's dominating. It's very low intensity high xGF play. It also guarantees you play the Leafs with puck on Marners stick more than it's on Matthews.

Wasting Matthews not having him qb the first line in playoffs. They run everything through Marner which is totally stupid when a generational player is on the line. The entire team needs to run everything through matthews and tavares. In playoffs Nylander is then my 3rd and Marner is my 4th. Watch how easy all the series wins comes if you re-adjust for playoffs. I am telling you, Marner should not be the face of the team in the playoffs. That's one of the main issues. Not as big as Dubas' pathetic depth compositions, but still big.

If Marner still proves to show this playoffs that he's elite at hockey but not an athlete, we need to do what florida did converting huberdeau into tkachuk because you can't pay a guy going into his 30s 10+ mil if they don't have an athlete body or born with god gifted athletic traits like Tavares, Matthews, Nylander (not worth 10, just saying Marner would be better and worth keeping past 28 if he had Nylanders body especially the seperation burst you can only be born with) etc. Marner only has god given hockey elite skill but it's still a sport you need to be an athlete too and by the playoffs he's toast and too easy to play against.


This fear started very slowly and gradually since the combine when I heard he had the grip strength of a 10 year old and then it started showing in his shot. If he can't figure it out now and dominate the playoffs he is sadly not going to be figuring it out when he's on the wrong side of 28. Look at a guy like Mackinnon he's a downright psycopath when it comes to his training you have to actually kill him to make him miss a training day or break his strict meal plan. Marner should be doing this at a minimum since he's not strong genetically

 

[DraftSchmaft]

This been on my mind for a while and I cant keep it in anymore. This is not going to be easy to swallow but I think many of you are thinking it too but just not ready to accept it or hear it out loud or be caught saying it, but you are probably guilty of enjoying watching someone else brave enough to say it.

I usually join and help those guys who defend the core at all costs but my patience only has 1 year left for Marner to play like he cares and willing to take a scratch in the playoffs instead of being easily isolated on perimeter. All you have to do to beat marner lead team in playoffs is to give him the entire outside and focus on lanes only. If he tries to come inside lay the body on him and he retreats back to the perimeter. It is in your best interest to let him juice up his xGF and give him the illusion he's dominating. It's very low intensity high xGF play. It also guarantees you play the Leafs with puck on Marners stick more than it's on Matthews.

Wasting Matthews not having him qb the first line in playoffs. They run everything through Marner which is totally stupid when a generational player is on the line. The entire team needs to run everything through matthews and tavares. In playoffs Nylander is then my 3rd and Marner is my 4th. Watch how easy all the series wins comes if you re-adjust for playoffs. I am telling you, Marner should not be the face of the team in the playoffs. That's one of the main issues. Not as big as Dubas' pathetic depth compositions, but still big.

If Marner still proves to show this playoffs that he's elite at hockey but not an athlete, we need to do what florida did converting huberdeau into tkachuk because you can't pay a guy going into his 30s 10+ mil if they don't have an athlete body or born with god gifted athletic traits like Tavares, Matthews, Nylander (not worth 10, just saying Marner would be better and worth keeping past 28 if he had Nylanders body especially the seperation burst you can only be born with) etc. Marner only has god given hockey elite skill but it's still a sport you need to be an athlete too and by the playoffs he's toast and too easy to play against.


This fear started very slowly and gradually since the combine when I heard he had the grip strength of a 10 year old and then it started showing in his shot. If he can't figure it out now and dominate the playoffs he is sadly not going to be figuring it out when he's on the wrong side of 28. Look at a guy like Mackinnon he's a downright psycopath when it comes to his training you have to actually kill him to make him miss a training day or break his strict meal plan. Marner should be doing this at a minimum since he's not strong genetically

This isn't a hot take at all. Truth just hurts.

Marner is trending towards being the weak link in the big 4 when playoffs roll around. Zibanejad would only need a 40% xGF to score 20 goals in 20 games with the space Matthews thicc booty makes in the playoffs for example. Anyone who has watched zibby recently knows what I mean. I don't need to elaborate.

I'm not writing Marners playoff success off I'm leaving it in Marners hands to write his own destiny instead of us automatically penciling him in as a future conn Smythe. He wants to be paid like one so he opened his own self up to this scrutiny. He's more of a safe 8x8 player when playoffs come.

Evidence based approach is against him right now. I'm not high on his Tampa series like others. He was whatever after game 2, same old high xGF no results snooze fest.

 

[darrylsittler27]

It's doubtful this is the finished product. We are only just seeing what we have and don't have, same with other teams. Knies will help but Dubas will want an impact trade.