Do we buy-out Richards and make a play for Stastny?

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Yes, you buy out Richards and sign Stastny, if that's your only option.

Trading for Kessler/another 1/2c is beyond stupid. We've already given up 2, if not 3, first round picks in 3 years. Our minor league depth, while mediocre, will certainly be below average within that same time frame.

Giving up more assets and tying up more cap space at the same time is even more detrimental.

The simple answer to why you buy out Richards is his cap recapture if he retires. It's a no brainer. He's not an athletic freak. He enjoys fishing, and wine, and extravagant dinners. His focus isn't primarily hockey, he enjoys leisure just as much. Which means he'll a) most likely drop off in play as he continues to get older and b) he'll be more prone to retire once he's dropped off past a certain extent.

We are a win now team. Setting aside the same cap room for Stastny to continue our legitimate window is a viable option.

It's certainly not ideal but it's absolutely more ideal than waiting 2 years so your prospects develop. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. In 2 years, we could have significantly fallen. An injury to Henrik would be detrimental to our success. Stastny isn't just a move for now, it'll be for the next 6-7 years. And if a prospect forces him out of his 2c duties because of play, you can look to trade him. NTC are dealbreakers when you're looking to trade players away to bottom feeders, but most players tend to welcome a change of scenery if they can make an impact on a team that can potentially be a contender. A deal will be harder to make and will take longer to come to fruition, but it isn't impossible. And then there is the argument about why anyone would take him given that salary, and again the answer is: it will be hard but not impossible. GM's take chances on players that "could" need a change of scenery. Stastny has undeniable raw talent and a lot of GM's value that. He's also now been on the Olympic team so experience is another credential on his resume. He won't be impossible to move, or even improbable - just more work.

Waiting for players to develop is a disaster for a team that has entered it's win now mode.

Our core is aging. Hank, Nash, MSL, Girardi, Staal.

Those are our stars - sans McD. Everyone else is a role player. Kreider, Stepan, Zucc, Brass - the rest of the team... all role players. Our stars are the ones that dictate win-now or rebuild or wait mode.

 

[silverfish]

He's 20. What do you expect out of a player that age, getting third line minutes?

Spoiler alert - He'll be 21 next season. What do we expect out of him a year later?

What don't you understand? I think his development will take a hit if he's competing against lesser competition. He's physically ready for the NHL. He needs experience now. He's done what he has to do in Hartford to prove that he's ready for a bigger role.

Can't deny he's ready size-wise. I just don't see the mental aspect of his game capable of playing a full-time role. I have shown the outline of his 6 points in terms of helping his linemates, you chose to ignore that.

And when he's' been in our line-up he hasn't been out of place. We're not talking about a player who's a liability when he's on the ice.

He's proven he can compete at this level. He's not out of place when he's in our line-up.

Yes, he has. I posted something showing his point totals compared to his linemates when he is in, and out of the lineup. He has recorded just 6 points in 28 games, despite having 72% combined offensive and neutral zone starts this season.

Oh you're right, terrific excuse, Miller's not ready for a third line role because his greatness in the AHL hasn't translated to the NHL.

Excuse? I'm not making excuses for Miller. You are.

Just because he's not a great NHL player doesn't mean he can't help this team regularly playing on our third-line.

LOL WUT? You took that quite literally. He's "great" AHL play has barely translated to "good" NHL play. And it certainly hasn't translated to consistent NHL play.

6 points in 28 games. I'm sorry I do not share your optimism that JT Miller is ready for top-9 duties full-time. But I do not appreciate you ignoring the facts I have brought to the table, and making me appear that my argument is built on opinion only.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Spoiler alert - He'll be 21 next season. What do we expect out of him a year later?

Well, if they gave him a full season instead of just playing him whenever they feel like it, and he put up 20-25 points over 82 (his pace) would anyone really be disappointed with that, at age 20? He's going to have to develop defensively, but he's not gonna do it in the AHL. He needs NHL minutes to do that. He's a rookie, he's going to make mistakes. Remember Kreider at 21?

 

[Thirty One]

Well, if they gave him a full season instead of just playing him whenever they feel like it, and he put up 20-25 points over 82 (his pace) would anyone really be disappointed with that, at age 20? He's going to have to develop defensively, but he's not gonna do it in the AHL. He needs NHL minutes to do that. He's a rookie, he's going to make mistakes. Remember Kreider at 21?

Why not?

 

[JimmyG89]

Yea... and I'm also able to projectile people through walls whenever I feel like it, too.

In what universe is your statement a reality?

His Rangers tenure says he is a 50 point player. If you include playoffs, 54. That is per 82 games. He is at 47 in 77 for regular seasonal combined. 12 in 12 in playoffs. His play is underrated, and I think he is ready for a larger role here. This is not him in Columbus.

The eye test also says he is ready to me. He started the year playing with Taylor Pyatt and Pouliot when he was at his worst. Most of it being from Pyatt. Richards has played with Nash, Callahan, St. Louis, Kreider. Of course his production is higher. I'd like to see Brass and with those type of players. He has been with Zuke and that is it.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Why not?

Playing defense against AHLers is not the same as doing it against NHLers.

Players aren't going to fully develop in the AHL.

 

[Ail]

I think Miller is able to learn on the fly in the NHL but the problem is finding him a spot to do so. They're trying to win so if he will be a liabilty they can't risk having him on the ice let alone make room for him by benching someone who isn't. The good news is he is only twenty so if management goes a different direction next year there's nothing wrong with leaving him in the AHL another year. He also has a great attitude when it comes to that stuff so he won't care if he is in the NHL or AHL.

If he impresses in camp next year they will give him the spot.

 

[silverfish]

Well, if they gave him a full season instead of just playing him whenever they feel like it, and he put up 20-25 points over 82 (his pace) would anyone really be disappointed with that, at age 20? He's going to have to develop defensively, but he's not gonna do it in the AHL. He needs NHL minutes to do that. He's a rookie, he's going to make mistakes. Remember Kreider at 21?

If he was ready for the full season, they would have given him the full season. No, I would not have been disappointed with 20-25 points at age 20. Yes, I remember Kreider at 21. He was yo-yo'd around, as Miller is being, and everyone was able to realize with Kreider that he wasn't ceasing the moment and taking the bull by the horns to solidify his spot in the lineup. Why some on HF are blind when it comes to Miller and the same predicament, I do not know.

 

[Thirty One]

Playing defense against AHLers is not the same as doing it against NHLers.

Players aren't going to fully develop in the AHL.

Should be able to get to a passable level though.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

His Rangers tenure says he is a 50 point player. If you include playoffs, 54. That is per 82 games. He is at 47 in 77 for regular seasonal combined. 12 in 12 in playoffs. His play is underrated, and I think he is ready for a larger role here. This is not him in Columbus.

The eye test also says he is ready to me. He started the year playing with Taylor Pyatt and Pouliot when he was at his worst. Most of it being from Pyatt. Richards has played with Nash, Callahan, St. Louis, Kreider. Of course his production is higher. I'd like to see Brass and with those type of players. He has been with Zuke and that is it.

No, he started the year playing with Richards and Zucarello. He stunk up the joint and got demoted.

How much of his success can be attributed to Zucc? Once Zucc ramped it up, every player he's been paired with has enjoyed immense success.

Brassard is fine where he is - on the 3rd line. Nothing i've seen indicates that he is ready to take on the role of a 2nd liner. Nothing. Zucc? Absolutely. Brassard? I'd be very afraid.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Should be able to get to a passable level though.

I don't understand why people don't think he was "passable". His shortcomings are over exaggerated. He was far worse last year, and I thought he was still respectable for his age. He's played well enough at the NHL level this season, IMO. He's a factor offensively, he makes plays with the puck, although the finish isn't there yet.

 

[JimmyG89]

If he was ready for the full season, they would have given him the full season. No, I would not have been disappointed with 20-25 points at age 20. Yes, I remember Kreider at 21. He was yo-yo'd around, as Miller is being, and everyone was able to realize with Kreider that he wasn't ceasing the moment and taking the bull by the horns to solidify his spot in the lineup. Why some on HF are blind when it comes to Miller and the same predicament, I do not know.

He is further along than Kreider was. He has pro experience the last two seasons. Kreider was coming out of the NCAA. He may be 20, but his progression has been great since coming here. He is next man up right now. We are talking about playing out the rest of the year in Hartford and showing himself in camp.

I believe he can do it. So can others. The 3rd liner right now is much. He can definitely fill in 4th line permanently, but he needs more minutes. This isn't a 25 year old player. In spurts, he is an effective 3rd liner. This is next season here. It is called projecting. There is no reason to believe Miller could not play 3rd line if he continues his path of development for next season.

 

[Leonardo87]

Richards contract is for another 6 years with a 6.7 Million cap hit. The next couple of years is not the issue, it is the end of the contract, and the Rangers are pretty much stuck with him since he has a NTC.

Buy him out, and use that money to get an elite forward like say Vanek. They have 6 centers now, do does not have to be a center the y acquire.

Stepan - 1C
Brassard - 2C
Miller - 3C
Boyle/Moore - 4C

 

[JimmyG89]

No, he started the year playing with Richards and Zucarello. He stunk up the joint and got demoted.

How much of his success can be attributed to Zucc? Once Zucc ramped it up, every player he's been paired with has enjoyed immense success.

Brassard is fine where he is - on the 3rd line. Nothing i've seen indicates that he is ready to take on the role of a 2nd liner. Nothing. Zucc? Absolutely. Brassard? I'd be very afraid.

You mean the one line producing when everyone sucked? Yea, he was on it. That line was broken cause they wanted Step, Brass, and Richards centering the top 3 lines. His production has increased as has everyone else's since getting acclimated to AV's system, except Richards. He has gotten worse.

 

[silverfish]

He is further along than Kreider was. He has pro experience the last two seasons. Kreider was coming out of the NCAA. He may be 20, but his progression has been great since coming here. He is next man up right now. We are talking about playing out the rest of the year in Hartford and showing himself in camp.

I believe he can do it. So can others. The 3rd liner right now is much. He can definitely fill in 4th line permanently, but he needs more minutes. This isn't a 25 year old player. In spurts, he is an effective 3rd liner. This is next season here. It is called projecting. There is no reason to believe Miller could not play 3rd line if he continues his path of development for next season.

I don't disagree with the Kreider comparison. But don't forget that Kreider came into the NHL playoffs straight out of college as a 21 year old and was an absolute factor for the Rangers. Miller turns 21 in 3 days. Can he provide the same spark that Kreider did?

And then what happened to Kreider? He hit a brick wall. Could that happen with Miller? It certainly can. I'm not saying it will, because yes - Miller has been in pro hockey longer, but to say it can't happen would be just as ignorant.

Further, I also do not disagree that Miller could slot into an NHL third-line next year. But I say that for a team who is not looking to compete. If Miller was in the Sabres organization, for example, I'm sure they would have no qualms with him receiving full-time third line duties behind Ennis and Hodsgon as the center depth in Buffalo. This Rangers team is looking to compete, and putting up with growing pains with Miller as your 3C, and not knowing what you're going to get from Brassard as a 2C, who knows what that does to the team as a whole?

I've shown that Miller, today, is in fact a detriment to this team offensively when he is in the lineup. It's there. Will it be that way next season? No, he can maybe be in that 25 point range according to his previous paces at the NHL level. Do you really want your 3C next year to only record 25 points though? How far is that going to get the Rangers if Stepan is recording 60 as the 1C, and Brassard 50-55 as the 2C?

 

[Thirty One]

I don't understand why people don't think he was "passable". His shortcomings are over exaggerated. He was far worse last year, and I thought he was still respectable for his age. He's played well enough at the NHL level this season, IMO. He's a factor offensively, he makes plays with the puck, although the finish isn't there yet.

I'm talking strictly defensively as a center. He's only played there for a short stretch this season, and he was babied with his usage.

 

[Nyrvana]

Yes, you buy out Richards and sign Stastny, if that's your only option.

Trading for Kessler/another 1/2c is beyond stupid. We've already given up 2, if not 3, first round picks in 3 years. Our minor league depth, while mediocre, will certainly be below average within that same time frame.

Giving up more assets and tying up more cap space at the same time is even more detrimental.

The simple answer to why you buy out Richards is his cap recapture if he retires. It's a no brainer. He's not an athletic freak. He enjoys fishing, and wine, and extravagant dinners. His focus isn't primarily hockey, he enjoys leisure just as much. Which means he'll a) most likely drop off in play as he continues to get older and b) he'll be more prone to retire once he's dropped off past a certain extent.

We are a win now team. Setting aside the same cap room for Stastny to continue our legitimate window is a viable option.

It's certainly not ideal but it's absolutely more ideal than waiting 2 years so your prospects develop. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. In 2 years, we could have significantly fallen. An injury to Henrik would be detrimental to our success. Stastny isn't just a move for now, it'll be for the next 6-7 years. And if a prospect forces him out of his 2c duties because of play, you can look to trade him. NTC are dealbreakers when you're looking to trade players away to bottom feeders, but most players tend to welcome a change of scenery if they can make an impact on a team that can potentially be a contender. A deal will be harder to make and will take longer to come to fruition, but it isn't impossible. And then there is the argument about why anyone would take him given that salary, and again the answer is: it will be hard but not impossible. GM's take chances on players that "could" need a change of scenery. Stastny has undeniable raw talent and a lot of GM's value that. He's also now been on the Olympic team so experience is another credential on his resume. He won't be impossible to move, or even improbable - just more work.

Waiting for players to develop is a disaster for a team that has entered it's win now mode.

Our core is aging. Hank, Nash, MSL, Girardi, Staal.

Those are our stars - sans McD. Everyone else is a role player. Kreider, Stepan, Zucc, Brass - the rest of the team... all role players. Our stars are the ones that dictate win-now or rebuild or wait mode.

The only player of the bolded that is "aging" is St Louis. Hank is 32, Nash 29, Girardi 29, Staal, 27

We have at the very least 3 more years of those guys performing at a high level. I would say these are their primes.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

The only player of the bolded that is "aging" is St Louis. Hank is 32, Nash 29, Girardi 29, Staal, 27

We have at the very least 3 more years of those guys performing at a high level. I would say these are their primes.

MSL will be 39. Henrik 32. Nash 30. Girardi 30. Staal 27 (28 in January).

That's an average age of: 31.6.

W/O MSL: 30 (in January).

Aging.

 

[eco's bones]

Anisimov played in the AHL starting at age 19 for two seasons--which is pretty much what JT is doing. Anisimov was a point per game player in his second season. Ditto with Miller. Miller is a rounded and grittier player. Artem's 3rd year was as the Rangers 3rd line center. He had decent offensive numbers. Think Miller should be capable of the same production--maybe even better--as he's actually already had many more NHL games than Anisimov at the same age. I don't think it's that big of a reach for Miller to come in and lock down that job.

 

[Ail]

I've shown that Miller, today, is in fact a detriment to this team offensively when he is in the lineup.

Management disagrees with you. They called up Miller who is a natural C when Zucc was hurt, however they had Jesper Fast, who is a natural RW, also playing very well in Hartford. So why didn't they call up Fast who would fill the position naturally over J.T. Miller? Something all of us who watch the 'Pack thought they should do, by the way.

AV himself:

“The fact that we lost Mats, we felt him being one of our best offensive players, we thought it would be better not to juggle everything and just bring in another offensive-type player,” Vigneault said. “J.T., from what I can understand, (associate head coach Scott Arniel) went down with (assistant GM Jeff Gorton) last Friday to watch (the Hartford Wolf Pack’s) game, he was their best player on the ice … He’s been playing well, he’s been playing, hopefully he can step in with (Brassard) and (Pouliot). That’s been one of our better lines for quite some time.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/ra...nce-by-slotting-jt-miller-with-derick-brassar

After practice on Tuesday, the New York Rangers head coach Alain Vigneault made the decision to call JT Miller up from their AHL affiliate the Hartford Wolf Pack. While Vigneault told reporters that the team might stick with 12 forwards in Thursday’s game against the Chicago Blackhawks, he elected to call up a forward from the Wolf Pack to provide more options and flexibility to the lineup in the wake of missing its top scorer, Mats Zuccarello, for a few weeks.

Back in October:

“We have some players right now that are getting a real good opportunity to show what they can do,” Vigneault said after Tuesday’s practice in Greenburgh. “Some guys are getting top-six forward minutes, power-play time, and some guys’ production is not where it needs to be to stay in those spots (over) the long term. So they’re aware of that. I don’t have to mention any names. But (Miller) would be one of the possibilities of moving up there if people don’t produce.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/h...ngers-offense-article-1.1486505#ixzz2vgyYXL00

If you're are going to make claims like that, they probably shouldn't contradict what the actual team has to say about him.

 

[CharlieCharleschuk]

Buy him out, and use that money to get an elite forward like say Vanek. They have 6 centers now, do does not have to be a center the y acquire.

Stepan - 1C
Brassard - 2C
Miller - 3C
Boyle/Moore - 4C

This is a good idea and your reasoning is sound. They have centers. Bolster the weakest wing. Does create a question w/ regard to Pouliot, though.

 

[bernmeister]

Cannot happen.

Richards gets bought out, the Rangers are precluded from re-signing him to a cheaper deal.

I wasn't clear.

The only basis to not amnesty is if somehow a new deal could be done which would give NYR enough advantage to keep him "extended" but what I really mean a new deal.

However, but definition, that new deal would have to amend the old (current) deal, not be an extension that is tacked on, or it does not work for the club. I don't believe even if both player and team agree that the old/existing contract can be modified, even with joint consent.

That's the basis, I think by which the scenario I proposed earlier cannot happen.

There may be an exception that allows both the club and the player to completely, voluntarily walk away from an existing deal, ie "tear up the old one" but then Richards would be at club mercy, and he's not going there.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Kesler reportedly went back to VAN management the day before the deadline and told them he changed his mind and WOULD waive his NTC to come here.

Source to confirm this?

Love how no one saw this.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Toews and Kane are both UFA's after next season. I know they'll both probably re-sign in Chicago, but I'd definitely want space to make bids at those guys if they hit free agency.

 

[One Winged Angel]

2016's class is even better.