Do the Sens even have an Identity?

[Cosmix]

What’s done is done…. Hopefully he can improve on his .478 Head coaching record…. and more importantly the rookie gm makes to the proper roster changes that enables the new coach to implement his system asap.

However, perhaps SS is also looking for a GM, and plans to drop back to his POHO position?

Regarding SS, based on his previous comments when he appointed himself as GM, I don't think he did it on an interim basis; he wants it permanently.

 

[jbeck5]

It's clear you re looking for things to complain about at this point if that's takeaway you got from my post.

Florida is the prototype for a hard to play against, aggressive team, they pressure the opposition in all three zones and are physical. In terms of what they are likely going to target as an identity, that's what I would expect.

Now, maybe that's what DJ was going for too and just couldn't get them there, but I wasn't saying we would be Florida under Green, I am saying that's the type of identity they will likely want to achieve. But if you want to find a negative spin on being hard to play against, saying it's DJ all over again is certainly one way to go about it

As for Green vs DJ, one guy wants to be your buddy to have players want to play for him, the other is more known for holding players accountable. Both guys are players coaches but do it in very different ways. Let's hope Green's way is more successful than DJ's,

Im not comparing how they treat their players (accountability or not), but rather the "difficult to play against" you describe is EXACTLY what was said about DJ Smith before he came here, AND AFTER the first couple seasons.

Everyone knew the sens weren't ready to compete, but the narrative was that DJ Smith sure has them playing hard to beat hockey. The word was Ottawa doesn't have the experience but DJ will make sure there isn't an easy game against Ottawa.

It's like, years later, Ottawa is still not ready to compete, and they got a coach that pushes the same game strategy as dj. Go in full energy and play hard.

What about defensive structures? What about offensive structure? What about counter attacks?

Again, not hearing anything about how green is a genius or great x and os or a psychology wizard. Just that he will get the boys playing hard. Cool. Let's see how that compares to DJs playing hard.

Can't wait to see rourke Chartier skating hard and giving no time and space on the forcheck. Awesome. Winning formula.

Competing and playing hard should be the base for any NHL team and not seen as some clever go-to winning formula as your strategy on how to win a cup.

Sounds like "were a team" but instead will be "we play hard".

 

[jbeck5]

C’mon dude. You and lots of fans are uncomfortable because the team has made a commitment to be winners and there’s a chance we fall flat on our faces, and that’s scary. But that’s what winning is, accepting the weight of you’re own dreams and not being afraid to fail at them.

Sens fans are comfortable with being bad because there’s no heartache, you won’t be disappointed because you have no expectations.

As a franchise lets Buck-up. The fan reactions around here are weak - feels like Leafs crying TBH

Where were you all these years?

We have continuously pumped the sens tires as a fan base only to be given dog shit.

Literally every year we're all over the main board and the sens board pumping tires talking playoffs. Go look at the debrincat thread. Go look at the chychrun thread. Go look at the Senators players polls vs other players. Go look at trade proposals.

We've been hyping this team for years and it makes us look so stupid.

Why haven't you learned?

What fun do you get out of hyping this team all summer only to be pissed off in November? How is that fun?

It's way easier to have no expectations and to laugh at the team. Sure, every once in a while you'll realize how bad we are that it's no longer funny, and get upset again, but soon enough, there will be plenty of ammo to laugh at this team and feel alright again.

I don't know what you get out of being irrationally optimistic? Do you not feel pain when you hype someone or something to everyone over and over again and are always proven wrong and then made fun of?

Do you ever learn to just be humble and start to only hype the team when their play has warranted it?

Like, how about we make a conference final or something before we start hyping this team as gold.


What's the worst that can happen if we wait for actual playoff success before gloating publicly??

 

[BondraTime]

Where were you all these years?

We have continuously pumped the sens tires as a fan base only to be given dog shit.

Literally every year we're all over the main board and the sens board pumping tires talking playoffs. Go look at the debrincat thread. Go look at the chychrun thread. Go look at the Senators players polls vs other players. Go look at trade proposals.

We've been hyping this team for years and it makes us look so stupid.

Why haven't you learned?

What fun do you get out of hyping this team all summer only to be pissed off in November? How is that fun?

It's way easier to have no expectations and to laugh at the team. Sure, every once in a while you'll realize how bad we are that it's no longer funny, and get upset again, but soon enough, there will be plenty of ammo to laugh at this team and feel alright again.

I don't know what you get out of being irrationally optimistic? Do you not feel pain when you hype someone or something to everyone over and over again and are always proven wrong and then made fun of?

Do you ever learn to just be humble and start to only hype the team when their play has warranted it?

Like, how about we make a conference final or something before we start hyping this team as gold.


What's the worst that can happen if we wait for actual playoff success before gloating publicly??

That's more on the fans than the team to be fair, creating threads and doing stuff like that with the team we had is on us as fans, not the team for not being good

 

[jbeck5]

What’s done is done…. Hopefully he can improve on his .478 Head coaching record…. and more importantly the rookie gm makes to the proper roster changes that enables the new coach to implement his system asap.

However, perhaps SS is also looking for a GM, and plans to drop back to his POHO position?

He should have let that GM pick the coach.

Now there is an easy excuse if we won't have success..."well, it wasn't the GMs choice, so they weren't seeing eye to eye from the get go. NOW that the GM can pick his guy, we'll be good!"

All while just wasting more years...

 

[bicboi64]

What fun do you get out of hyping this team all summer only to be pissed off in November? How is that fun?

My guy, I'm negative af, but everyone is allowed to enjoy fandom for this team however they want. If someone wants to cheer for this team by not critiquing as much, that's fine and as long as we remember we're on the same side and don't insult each other, it's cool.

 

[jbeck5]

That's more on the fans than the team to be fair, not their fault the fans get unrealistically giddy

But he's suggesting we get all unrealistically giddy.

I'm saying he may not have learned his lesson, but others clearly have.

You've seen a strong shift this year where the majority of fans aren't getting blindly optimistic with moves anymore like they did the previous couple years.

They're going to wait for actual long term results. There are still some that are fickle and get excited about a 4 game winning streak without realizing the odds are they're going to lose a bunch and regress back to .500 hockey.

We're slowly but surely beating the optimism out of every single fan until we can learn to be humble and not overhyped our ~25th place team.

With this team, it's much more realistic and probably to assume every move is shit until proven otherwise, rather than assume every move is good until proven otherwise.

Heck, it's even better to assume every move is shit rather than to abstain judgement. The odds are more in your favour with this team that transactions are actually shit.

 

[BondraTime]

But he's suggesting we get all unrealistically giddy.

I'm saying he may not have learned his lesson, but others clearly have.

You've seen a strong shift this year where the majority of fans aren't getting blindly optimistic with moves anymore like they did the previous couple years.

They're going to wait for actual long term results. There are still some that are fickle and get excited about a 4 game winning streak without realizing the odds are they're going to lose a bunch and regress back to .500 hockey.

We're slowly but surely beating the optimism out of every single fan until we can learn to be humble and not overhyped our ~25th place team.

We have been trotting out absolute garbage teams and making garbage moves for years. That's on us if we were getting unrealisitcally giddy, nobody to blame but the eye of the beholder.

Unrealistic expectations are part of fandom, this pace has had some of the most ridiculous expecations over the past few years, and had some of the most ridiculous and unrealistic expectations from management.

We have new managment, they have literally been telling us to revisit our expectations since Septemeber, it's just taking some much longer to come to that realization.

We are surly resetting the optimism, and moving to a new outlook and team, because that oiptimism has been without merit for years.

If people are looking forward to a new outlook and new management moving the team forward, more power to them. It's the first time in close to a decade there is a light at the end of the tunnel

If people want to wait for results, more power to them.

Critiquing things that haven't happened, for better or worse, is strange, but like all of the above is a part of fandom

If peopole are expecting this team to cruise to the playoffs, they are in for a rough go.

This is not a playoff team, they are a team hoping to get to being a playoff contender, they could finish 12th in the east, it wouldn't/shouldn't be seen as an epic failure of a season, it is par thew course for the team we have.

We should be hoping they can make the step towards getting to the 8th spot in the east, that's about where the expecattions should be at their absolute peak.

 

[Micklebot]

Im not comparing how they treat their players (accountability or not), but rather the "difficult to play against" you describe is EXACTLY what was said about DJ Smith before he came here, AND AFTER the first couple seasons.

Everyone knew the sens weren't ready to compete, but the narrative was that DJ Smith sure has them playing hard to beat hockey. The word was Ottawa doesn't have the experience but DJ will make sure there isn't an easy game against Ottawa.

It's like, years later, Ottawa is still not ready to compete, and they got a coach that pushes the same game strategy as dj. Go in full energy and play hard.

What about defensive structures? What about offensive structure? What about counter attacks?

Again, not hearing anything about how green is a genius or great x and os or a psychology wizard. Just that he will get the boys playing hard. Cool. Let's see how that compares to DJs playing hard.

Can't wait to see rourke Chartier skating hard and giving no time and space on the forcheck. Awesome. Winning formula.

Competing and playing hard should be the base for any NHL team and not seen as some clever go-to winning formula as your strategy on how to win a cup.

Sounds like "were a team" but instead will be "we play hard".

Again, the hard to play against identity fits Florida to a tee, but you jump to DJ Smith all over again, why?

It's like you are looking to put a negative spin on it.


In terms of X's and O's there has been talk about green being very good at that stuff out there, but it's not really relevant to this thread, but Drance talked about it, there was talk about how he leveraged that ability in their playoff run going further than expected as an underdog, and wrt him as a psychology wizard, you can listen to Frankie Corrado talk about his abilities to get the best out of his players, he said something along the lines of Green being the best coach he ever played under at identifying what buttons to push for specific players.

Maybe he works out, maybe he doesn't, but he definitely isn't DJ Smith all over again, they are very different coaches from all accounts.

 

[jbeck5]

That's more on the fans than the team to be fair, creating threads and doing stuff like that with the team we had is on us as fans, not the team for not being good

Well that's why they've adjusted and started calling the team shit like they are instead of calling them good when they're shit...

I'm not blaming the team. I'm saying fans have made adjustments. Scaled back any good expectations.

My guy, I'm negative af, but everyone is allowed to enjoy fandom for this team however they want. If someone wants to cheer for this team by not critiquing as much, that's fine and as long as we remember we're on the same side and don't insult each other, it's cool.

I'm not meaning to insult. I'm just astounded how people can keep being positive expecting good results year after year?

I think dialing back expectations would be beneficial for them when the team shits the bed again.

I'm trying to help.

 

[BankStreetParade]

...
In terms of X's and O's there has been talk about green being very good at that stuff out there, but it's not really relevant to this thread, but Drance talked about it, there was talk about how he leveraged that ability in their playoff run going further than expected as an underdog, and wrt him as a psychology wizard, you can listen to Frankie Corrado talk about his abilities to get the best out of his players, he said something along the lines of Green being the best coach he ever played under at identifying what buttons to push for specific players.

This is not relevant to the DJ comparison.

In a regular season (not the 2019-20 Covid season), it's likely the Canucks wouldn't have even made the playoffs that year. First off, they were in a 3-way tie for 18th overall in the league when the regular season was indefinitely postponed. They were also 9-9-2 in their last 20 games before the season stopped. Winnipeg, Minnesota and Calgary were all outpacing them by a wide margin over that time, which would have resulted in Vancouver missing the final wild card spot in the west had they played 82 games. His best performance as a coach likely wouldn't have happened if not for a global pandemic that prematurely ended the NHL regular season.

He certainly performed admirably when he got there (despite the incredibly unique circumstances and extensive layoffs) but we don't really know what he's like as a playoff coach, do we?

 

[Micklebot]

This is not relevant to the DJ comparison.

In a regular season (not the 2019-20 Covid season), it's likely the Canucks wouldn't have even made the playoffs that year. First off, they were in a 3-way tie for 18th overall in the league when the regular season was indefinitely postponed. They were also 9-9-2 in their last 20 games before the season stopped. Winnipeg, Minnesota and Calgary were all outpacing them by a wide margin over that time, which would have resulted in Vancouver missing the final wild card spot in the west had they played 82 games. His best performance as a coach likely wouldn't have happened if not for a global pandemic that prematurely ended the NHL regular season.

He certainly performed admirably when he got there (despite the incredibly unique circumstances and extensive layoffs) but we don't really know what he's like as a playoff coach, do we?

Idk what you are getting at here, I mention the playoffs because someone (not sure if it was Drance Lalji or Corrado) talked about his adapting and out coaching the opposition in the playoff, whether it was a shortened season or not isn't relevant to the point, it was simply an example of him adapting his strategies to get the upper hand in a series environment

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

He should have let that GM pick the coach.

Now there is an easy excuse if we won't have success..."well, it wasn't the GMs choice, so they weren't seeing eye to eye from the get go. NOW that the GM can pick his guy, we'll be good!"

All while just wasting more years...

On second thought, I think Cosmix is correct, SS is going to retain the dual role as POHO/GM

 

[HoweHullOrr]

What about defensive structures? What about offensive structure? What about counter attacks?

Again, not hearing anything about how green is a genius or great x and os or a psychology wizard. Just that he will get the boys playing hard. Cool. Let's see how that compares to DJs playing hard.

The part I bolded is about the only thing of any value in your post. Its true, you, along with the rest of us haven’t heard much about this subject. In fact, what you, along with everyone else does NOT know is a lot less than what we do know.

On the "pyschology wizard” comment, its now seems apparent you didn’t listen to the Corrado interview who did speak to this issue. Corrado said that Green is good at getting to know the players and knowing what buttons to push. Green doesn’t use one standard approach for all players, but conversely tailors his approach to the player.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Idk what you are getting at here, I mention the playoffs because someone (not sure if it was Drance Lalji or Corrado) talked about his adapting and out coaching the opposition in the playoff, whether it was a shortened season or not isn't relevant to the point, it was simply an example of him adapting his strategies to get the upper hand in a series environment

I would say it's very relevant if the one example of him performing well is a result of a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic that prematurely cut the season short for a team that was almost certainly going to miss the playoffs. If you weren't trying your best to be such a contrarian about this you'd be pointing at this quote (from whoever it is) as the definitive example of cherry-picking for the sake of an argument.

 

[Adrianopolous]

Confirmed with Link: - Zibanejad, 2nd to NYR for Brassard, 7th

I was one of Zibanejad's non believers but this trade doesn't make much sense.

forums.hfboards.com

What an entertaining read

 

[Micklebot]

I would say it's very relevant if the one example of him performing well is a result of a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic that prematurely cut the season short for a team that was almost certainly going to miss the playoffs. If you weren't trying your best to be such a contrarian about this you'd be pointing at this quote (from whoever it is) as the definitive example of cherry-picking for the sake of an argument.

It was an anecdote about him as a X's and O's guy that I brought up because someone said we aren't hearing about how he's good with X's and O's, the point is simply that yes, some of those in the know are talking about that being a strength, and they supported it by talking about an example where he utilized that skill. The point wasn't to prove he is a tactical genius, but to point out that yes, in fact we are hearing about that being a strength of his.

The pandemic doesn't change that he coached playoff games. And how was Van almost certainly going to miss, they were 7th in the conference in pts percentage when games stopped? They were even third in the division in pts %, they held the tie breaker over all the teams behind them in their division too,

If correcting the record is being contrarian than fine , I'm contrarian,

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Confirmed with Link: - Zibanejad, 2nd to NYR for Brassard, 7th

I was one of Zibanejad's non believers but this trade doesn't make much sense.

forums.hfboards.com

What an entertaining read

Damn, not one post from me in there. Disappointed.

 

[Tuna99]

What’s done is done…. Hopefully he can improve on his .478 Head coaching record…. and more importantly the rookie gm makes to the proper roster changes that enables the new coach to implement his system asap.

However, perhaps SS is also looking for a GM, and plans to drop back to his POHO position?

Ideally I’d say Green gives us a Jacuqes Martin and gets us into the playoffs for the next 3 years and then Ryan Bowmess’s guys he developing now take over and the teams has key guys Bowness fostered like to Ostapchuk, Kleven, Halliday, 7th overall team then he becomes GM and Staois full time POHO

 

[BankStreetParade]

The pandemic doesn't change that he coached playoff games.

24 teams "made" the playoffs that year when usually 16 teams get in. The pandemic didn't change that???

And how was Van almost certainly going to miss, they were 7th in the conference in pts percentage when games stopped? They were even third in the division in pts %, they held the tie breaker over all the teams behind them in their division too,

If correcting the record is being contrarian than fine , I'm contrarian,

Their pts% in their last 20 games can help project their final games that would have completed the full 82 game schedule.

Team	P% in Prev. 20	Pts at time of shutdown	Proj. Pts for 82 games schedule
Vancouver	.500	78	91
Calgary	.550	79	92
Winnipeg	.650	80	94
Minnesota	.658	77	94

It would have been a tight race to the finish but it looks like they ultimately would have missed.

 

[Loach]

Ideally I’d say Green gives us a Jacuqes Martin and gets us into the playoffs for the next 3 years and then Ryan Bowmess’s guys he developing now take over and the teams has key guys Bowness fostered like to Ostapchuk, Kleven, Halliday, 7th overall team then he becomes GM and Staois full time POHO

What? Lmao!

 

[Micklebot]

24 teams "made" the playoffs that year when usually 16 teams get in. The pandemic didn't change that???

Their pts% in their last 20 games can help project their final games that would have completed the full 82 game schedule.

Team	P% in Prev. 20	Pts at time of shutdown	Proj. Pts for 82 games schedule
Vancouver	.500	78	91
Calgary	.550	79	92
Winnipeg	.650	80	94
Minnesota	.658	77	94

It would have been a tight race to the finish but it looks like they ultimately would have missed.

At the time of the stopage they were in fact in a playoff position (standard rules not expanded Covid plain round rules), that's a fact. If you want to project them based on their last 20 games, and argue that's proof they almost certainly weren't going to make it, your original claim, well, I'm just going to point out how flimsy a position that is.

 

[DanyHeatley]

C’mon dude. You and lots of fans are uncomfortable because the team has made a commitment to be winners and there’s a chance we fall flat on our faces, and that’s scary. But that’s what winning is, accepting the weight of you’re own dreams and not being afraid to fail at them.

Sens fans are comfortable with being bad because there’s no heartache, you won’t be disappointed because you have no expectations.

As a franchise lets Buck-up. The fan reactions around here are weak - feels like Leafs crying TBH

What am I comfortable and uncomfortable about?

This team has sucked for the past 7 seasons and currently still sucks. I’m merely stating facts my dude. They haven’t stopped sucking

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

This picture perfectly encapsulates our identity.