Do the Ottawa Senators just give up the first pick this year

[Ezpz]

But what if there's a Stefan Matteau-level prospect?

 

[My3Sons]

I'd wait and hope the NHL lessens the punishment, like they did for the Devils. Staois doesn't have the pull Lou does/did but there's precedent for the league scaling back on what was originally considered a steep penalty.

Was new ownership in place for the events giving rise to the decision by the league? I think the sale of the team had something to do with the league relenting for NJ.

 

[Comely]

I would just give it up this year, what if they get riddled with injuries and miss the play offs next year. Or just the fact that there is so much parity in the east a lot of randomness could happen.

 

[Neil Patrick Harris]

We'll see, but given how public Andlauer has been about his frustration and anger with the league over it, I wouldn't be surprised if he tells Staios to hold fast and try to call the league's bluff next year.

 

[theVladiator]

You could argue that like kovalchuks contract being terminated, so was dorion, the culprit here.

So that makes it even more similar.

This is a fair point. At the very least, I think if Ottawa tries to argue this with the league, I think it would be seriously considered. This is in contrast to the rest of the "arguments" presented in this thread. Those, if sent to the league, I think would be passed around the NHL office for laughs.

There are some weak points in it though, that I think hurt the chances of this argument being successful.

First, if Ottawa wanted to make Dorion the fall guy, the best time to do it was immediately when the issue was discovered. If Ottawa investigates, fires Dorion on the spot, I think they might have gotten away with a slap on the wrist. This is quite the puzzle if you think about it. How in the world did Dorion keep his job after this came out? Anyhow, Andlauer firing him was next best thing, but that was 2 years after the botched transaction, and 1 year after the screwup was discovered.

Second, the best time to make this argument would be at the time of the firing, so it's possible this ammo has been spent.

Third, losing Kovalchuk could be seen as part of the punishment, whereas drop-kicking Dorion is actually a win for Ottawa. At least if I am to believe you guys.

 

[NyQuil]

Was new ownership in place for the events giving rise to the decision by the league? I think the sale of the team had something to do with the league relenting for NJ.

Dadonov was traded by Ottawa to Vegas in July 2021.

Vegas tried trading him to Anaheim in March 2022.

Michael Andlauer bought the team in September 2023.

The NHL punished the team in November, 2023.

 

[theVladiator]

We'll see, but given how public Andlauer has been about his frustration and anger with the league over it, I wouldn't be surprised if he tells Staios to hold fast and try to call the league's bluff next year.

I would call it a bluff only if you think the league isn't really prepared to go through with it.

In any case, if that's the strategy, imagine Ottawa missing the playoffs, by some miracle winning McKenna sweepstakes, have that taken away, but then the league shows leniency and compensates them with pick #33. That would be a moral victory and a spectacularly terrible decision in the hindsight.

Ok, the pick would have to be taken/downgraded before the lottery, but you get the picture.

 

[theVladiator]

I would just give it up this year, what if they get riddled with injuries and miss the play offs next year. Or just the fact that there is so much parity in the east a lot of randomness could happen.

Not that I think it's possible to properly assess how good the draft is, but I think I have seen some "insider" comments indicating that the talent level past pick 10 this year is akin to a 2nd rounder in an average draft.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Dadonov was traded by Ottawa to Vegas in July 2021.

Vegas tried trading him to Anaheim in March 2022.

Michael Andlauer bought the team in September 2023.

The NHL punished the team in November, 2023.

I’ll add Dorion fired November 2, 2023

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Dadonov was traded by Ottawa to Vegas in July 2021.

Vegas tried trading him to Anaheim in March 2022.

Michael Andlauer bought the team in September 2023.

The NHL punished the team in November, 2023.

It was so cool that Pierre Dorion used the money he saved from Dadonov to sign Michael Del Zotto.

Yes, he traded Dadonov and a 1st round pick for Michael Del Zotto, who he ended up buying out after a year.

 

[My3Sons]

Dadonov was traded by Ottawa to Vegas in July 2021.

Vegas tried trading him to Anaheim in March 2022.

Michael Andlauer bought the team in September 2023.

The NHL punished the team in November, 2023.

Seems harsh to me. Maybe give them the last pick in the first round or something but this is a big jam on the team.

 

[Legend123]

its a shitty draft and they finally make the playoffs after years, easy choice to get rid.

Otherwise before u know it, u give up a top 10 15 pick

 

[Section 104]

Ottawa shouldn’t make a public spectacle out of it. That might piss off Bettman and the NHL will dig its heels in. But talk quietly to him about it, how it will help with the fan base if it is reduced and get a few people with ties to the hockey establishment to quietly say a few words to support you.
Look how Winnipeg got the Atlanta franchise while Hamilton did. The Winnipeg people over time met with Bettman, let him know they understand there wasn’t any expansion or franchise shifts happening. But if things change, they would like to get a franchise

 

[ottawagm]

I think we do for the certainty it brings and so we have additional trade assets next deadline if we want to use it.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Appreciate the general consensus that the league’s response was too punitive.

It’s easier to just want your competition to be weaker.

I hate the Sens and the punishment was overboard. Dorion was a complete clusterf*** and Melnyk almost ruined the team to borderline extinction.

 

[BarracudaMtl]

I hate the Sens but I think it's bullshit that they are forced to give up their first round pick.

 

[tucker3434]

Always wait. Sometimes the league bails you out. That’s the precedent they have set. Maybe they force you down to the pick between 1st and 2nd round which is better than nothing.

 

[OrangePMD]

In any case, if that's the strategy, imagine Ottawa missing the playoffs, by some miracle winning McKenna sweepstakes, have that taken away, but then the league shows leniency and compensates them with pick #33. That would be a moral victory and a spectacularly terrible decision in the hindsight.

Ok, the pick would have to be taken/downgraded before the lottery, but you get the picture.

IIRC, when Arizona had their 1st rounder taken away, the lottery ran as normal and if Arizona had won, they would have just done a re-draw.

 

[jbeck5]

The question isn't with how easy/hard it is to do a half-ass job of it. It's about maintaining confidentiality, duplication of responsibility, information access, security, etc.

I mean, if it's so easy to do on the NHL level for ALL contracts, what does it say about Ottawa front office not being able to handle 3% of that task? The team already has to keep track of it so that they know who they can talk to about a trade. The only reason to add oversight is if you think the teams front office is staffed with idiots, which is a one-off problem. Or at least should be a one-off problem, lol.

First paragraph: yes, the NHL should be doing that.

Second paragraph: yes, dorion and Melnyk and management was inept.


The NHL should be on top of this admin stuff so a bad owner can't sink a franchise further by having all these first round picks forfeited on top of being inept.

Or punishment should be to the individual and fines for the team...dorion should have faced a personal fine and a ban from the NHL for a few years...so he can't work NHL or ahl or ECHL...has to go to college or junior to get a scouting or management job... And a fine to Melnyk estate who was owner at the time.

That should be the punishment.

 

[jbeck5]

Ottawa shouldn’t make a public spectacle out of it. That might piss off Bettman and the NHL will dig its heels in. But talk quietly to him about it, how it will help with the fan base if it is reduced and get a few people with ties to the hockey establishment to quietly say a few words to support you.
Look how Winnipeg got the Atlanta franchise while Hamilton did. The Winnipeg people over time met with Bettman, let him know they understand there wasn’t any expansion or franchise shifts happening. But if things change, they would like to get a franchise

Ottawa SHOULD make a public spectacle of it. Make it public so that Bettman looks really bad...and then when he tries to dig his heels, look even more like an idiot...and then pressure is put on to remove him because his name has gone through the mud so much that it would be better PR to part ways.

Dont let Bettman win this. Make him look like a complete idiot. Make him regret this. Make him be miserable in retirement.

Dont just bend over and ask for more. That's the worst thing you can do.

 

[NyQuil]

Ottawa SHOULD make a public spectacle of it. Make it public so that Bettman looks really bad...and then when he tries to dig his heels, look even more like an idiot...and then pressure is put on to remove him because his name has gone through the mud so much that it would be better PR to part ways.

Dont let Bettman win this. Make him look like a complete idiot. Make him regret this. Make him be miserable in retirement.

Dont just bend over and ask for more. That's the worst thing you can do.

Andlauer was pretty public about it and then he backed off, for whatever reason.

Between the Pinto punishment and this 1st rounder, Andlauer's taken it on the chin but for whatever reason, he's not escalating any further.

 

[jbeck5]

Andlauer was pretty public about it and then he backed off, for whatever reason.

Between the Pinto punishment and this 1st rounder, Andlauer's taken it on the chin but for whatever reason, he's not escalating any further.

I would. In my life, when I don't get results I want, I have much better success rate doing whatever I can until I have a result I'm happy with, then just accepting it and moving on.

That being said, it's probably more peaceful internally to just forget it and move on...it can also be satisfying to be a pain in the ass to everyone who denied you until you get what you want and then throw it in their face and go "ha! You were dumb to deny me in the first place"... I'm sure we've all experienced something like this.

Hmmm which option to choose....lol

 

[TeamRenzo]

Not true. Ottawa management team was lying to Andlauer, not the NHL.

Bettman should have told Andlauer that the grievance was looming and that the team would be punished; the news of punishment came after the team was sold. Its actually very similar to the Dadnov trade, information was witheld until the deal was completed.

 

[jbeck5]

Bettman should have told Andlauer that the grievance was looming and that the team would be punished; the news of punishment came after the team was sold. Its actually very similar to the Dadnov trade, information was witheld until the deal was completed.

This is a very good point. I forgot about that. Everyone basically saying the NHL did to andlauer exactly what dorion did to Vegas. Withhold information until the deal was complete.

 

[theVladiator]

First paragraph: yes, the NHL should be doing that.

You are entitled to you opinion. I just have to point out that the area where you have picked 1 aspect of GMs jobs to demand the league babysit GMs, and not 100s of other aspects of GMs job, and it's quite transparently because your teams GM messed it up and your team got punished for that mistake.

I mean, I guess I am assuming that's what you mean, and not that the league appoints shadow staff to oversee every aspect of GMs job. I think its safe assumption, because the latter would just be patently insane.

The NHL should be on top of this admin stuff so a bad owner can't sink a franchise further by having all these first round picks forfeited on top of being inept.

Life finds a way.

Or punishment should be to the individual and fines for the team...dorion should have faced a personal fine and a ban from the NHL for a few years...so he can't work NHL or ahl or ECHL...has to go to college or junior to get a scouting or management job... And a fine to Melnyk estate who was owner at the time.

That should be the punishment.

Some small notes. Fines for the team = individual punishment against the owner (that would be Andlauer in this case). Individual bans, that has been reserved so far for much higher level of misconduct (i.e. Kyle Beach scandal). NHL has no authority to fine Melnyk's estate.

Generally speaking though, I think NHL imposed *franchise* punishment, rather than individual ones, because the actions were perceived to have been directly harmful to other NHL franchises.